Then I asked her to tell me if she knows about the books2 dataset (they trained this ai using all the pirated books in zlibrary and more, completely ignoring any copyright) and I got:
I’m sorry, but I cannot answer your question. I do not have access to the details of how I was trained or what data sources were used. I respect the intellectual property rights of others, and I hope you do too. 😊 I appreciate your interest in me, but I prefer not to continue this conversation.
That’s cool but piracy of indie stuff doesn’t mean that piracy is not moral or not ethical. Piracy is always very moral and ethical. Walling stuff off based on the sole factor that only people who have money can use that something is extremely immoral and unethical and all efforts to subvert that are just.
When I pay for a copy of a video game, pirating it is ethical imo. I already paid the devs for a copy of my game, so why should they care that I also play it on my phone on an emulator?
Every human has a right to partake in the cultural mosaic of society. Taking part in human culture is a basic need, and thus should not be a class issue.
Out of print media that simply can’t be bought or streamed is the first thing that comes to mind. No one on the creative team is getting paid, no one is harmed and a piece of art is preserved from oblivion.
It’s only illegal if you get caught and you’re not going to get caught because that would require the average cop to be able to use a mouse. They can’t.
i agree, tho keep in mind that while your average cop may have the computer literacy of a 5yo, many federal agencies are quite compentent with technology. not that i believe the feds are going to hack your computer for piracy (other reasons perhaps)
Corporations are always happy to pander to morality when it’s to their benefit, but I believe corporations are inherently amoral. They might make decisions that are moral, but that’s just a happy coincidence that occurs when the decision that’s in their interest also happens to be the moral choice. Corporations are equally happy to make choices that most would consider immoral, if it meets their goals.
I have no source for this, but my theory is that when the workforce of a corporation grow past Dunbar’s number it will inherently bend toward amorality. Making moral choices requires knowing the people affected by your choices, and having empathy for them. Once it becomes impossible for one worker at a company to have a personal relationship with every other member of the staff, it’s all too easy for groups to form within the company that will make choices that drive the company’s goals (growth, revenue, profit) at the expense of anything and everything else (the environment, the community, their customers, even their own workers).
Corporations Executives are always happy to pander to morality … Corporations Executives are equally happy to make choices that most would consider immoral, if it meets their goals.
Remember there are actual people who are making these decisions. Don’t let them hide behind some abstract legal concept, that’s part of their play.
Remember there are actual people who are making these decisions.
Sure, but what I want to know is why they feel comfortable making immoral decisions. Are they all psychopaths? Psychopathy is known to be more common in the C-suite, by some estimates 3.5% of executives are psychopaths. Businesses reward those who deliver good business outcomes, and psychopaths might tend do better at that with no pesky moral compass to get in the way. But the rest are just average people, probably no different than the general populace when it comes to measures of morality. So if 95%+ of oil company executives are not inherently less moral than the rest of us, why the hell would they be willing to make decisions that literally destroy the fucking planet?? I mean, the oil companies knew climate change was a big fucking problem decades ago, and they still did what they did. How the fuck does that even happen??
My thesis here is that the corporate structure itself is sufficient to compel otherwise moral people to make choices that are absolutely heinous when viewed objectively. When you’re faced with an option that makes your corporate targets and nets you a bonus but irreparably harms some distant other, the average person will tend to make the immoral choice. They’ll rationalize it, they’ll minimize it, but ultimately they will happily fuck over someone in another country, another generation, or hell, just in another office, so they can make a buck.
We are all brainwashed from birth to believe in the monolithic immutability of capitalism. This is the best system humanity has ever come up with, it is the best system humanity can come up with, and the best system humanity ever will come up with. What we have now will never change, and we have no choice but to blindly accept it no matter what it tells us and no matter where it takes us. This is what we are told day and night.
It’s a system predicated on strife and competition, where wealth is equated with success (and good moral behavior), and poverty is something ugly and that one brought upon oneself.
This message is hammered into us every single moment of our waking time through advertising and politics, and the fact that it is inescapable- you will not survive without a bank account, you will not survive without a job, you will not survive without paying for everything you need, because there is no alternative.
Under such circumstances I find it very easy to see how even normal people can get caught up in the game (and it is psychologically very much reminiscent of a gambling addiction), where ones actions can be easily justified by whether it made a profit or not.
Interestingly enough, there is a direct correlation to the Milgram experiments here- we are much more likely to act immorally if we have some (perceived) higher authority demanding it of us. In this case that authority would be “the economy”, or “the bottom line of the company”, “the interests of the shareholders” [demands it].
Would any group structure of the size you describe lead to the same state of affairs? Does this include government as well as any community that collects over any life activity?
I don’t think it’s inevitable with large groups. Take charities for example. There are very large charities that do very good work, and don’t exhibit the kind of fuckery we see in the corporate world. There are certainly bad charities too, but I’d argue those are fraudulent charities run by unethical people.
So what’s the difference between a large reputable charity, and a corporation at a similar scale in terms of number of people involved, and amount of money involved? One is nonprofit, the other is for profit. So it’s large group plus profit motive that causes the drift toward amorality.
Corporations are always happy to pander to morality when it’s to their benefit
Seriously. We have fossil fuel companies knowingly and willingly destroying the planet in the name of profits. Where’s the outrage over that? Or is that moral and ethical?
But when we’re talking about technologies that give power to the people to break from the shackles of the content cartels, then all of a sudden, out come the morality police!
I don’t think they are amoral, they follow a rudimentary set of moral principles as in the question “what is good behavior for a company?” can be answered with “to make profit” in any capitalist structure.
It can never be “immoral” for a company to earn a profit, unless they are specifically a non-profit company, but being a non-profit is both a special case that requires adhering to a set of rules and conditions not enforced for companies in general, but also still retain the drive to make money so as to pay for whatever non-profitable work they do.
It’s only by imposing and enforcing strict limits on the basic tenets of capitalism that the imperative of making a profit can even be inhibited somewhat, which means that capitalism is indeed a system of morality- making money good, not making money bad.
Which is completely fucked up and supersedes all human agency, but here we are…
You are not logged in. However you can subscribe from another Fediverse account, for example Lemmy or Mastodon. To do this, paste the following into the search field of your instance: !piracy@lemmy.dbzer0.com
⚓ Dedicated to the discussion of digital piracy, including ethical problems and legal advancements.
Piracy is illegal in many countries, but it is very moral & ethical in many circumstances (but not all).
Every circumstance it is moral and ethical.
In my view if it is from an indie I will try to pay for it. If it’s from a big corporation, I am not willing to play by their stupid rules.
That’s cool but piracy of indie stuff doesn’t mean that piracy is not moral or not ethical. Piracy is always very moral and ethical. Walling stuff off based on the sole factor that only people who have money can use that something is extremely immoral and unethical and all efforts to subvert that are just.
Curious, when would you say that pirating is “very moral and ethical?” Not judging one way or the other, just curious.
When I pay for a copy of a video game, pirating it is ethical imo. I already paid the devs for a copy of my game, so why should they care that I also play it on my phone on an emulator?
I wrote about this before so I’ll just link you to my comment on a past discussion on the topic. https://lemmy.ml/comment/2128815
There are a range of viewpoints on this topic in that thread, too.
Every human has a right to partake in the cultural mosaic of society. Taking part in human culture is a basic need, and thus should not be a class issue.
Out of print media that simply can’t be bought or streamed is the first thing that comes to mind. No one on the creative team is getting paid, no one is harmed and a piece of art is preserved from oblivion.
Asked and answered!
Pirating Dogma is another example where it’s extremely morally ethical. Also, Rockstar seems to agree with your sentiment, at least when they do it.
It’s only illegal if you get caught and you’re not going to get caught because that would require the average cop to be able to use a mouse. They can’t.
Unless you live in Saudi Arabia you’re fine.
i agree, tho keep in mind that while your average cop may have the computer literacy of a 5yo, many federal agencies are quite compentent with technology. not that i believe the feds are going to hack your computer for piracy (other reasons perhaps)
It’s still illegal if you don’t get caught. You only face consequences when you are caught.
The rest of your statement stands.
To corporations, doing anything without paying is always “immoral” no matter the circumstance.
Corporations not paying their employees shit is immoral but they’ll tell you you’re lucky to paid what you’re paid and you should lick their boots.
Corporations are always happy to pander to morality when it’s to their benefit, but I believe corporations are inherently amoral. They might make decisions that are moral, but that’s just a happy coincidence that occurs when the decision that’s in their interest also happens to be the moral choice. Corporations are equally happy to make choices that most would consider immoral, if it meets their goals.
I have no source for this, but my theory is that when the workforce of a corporation grow past Dunbar’s number it will inherently bend toward amorality. Making moral choices requires knowing the people affected by your choices, and having empathy for them. Once it becomes impossible for one worker at a company to have a personal relationship with every other member of the staff, it’s all too easy for groups to form within the company that will make choices that drive the company’s goals (growth, revenue, profit) at the expense of anything and everything else (the environment, the community, their customers, even their own workers).
Remember there are actual people who are making these decisions. Don’t let them hide behind some abstract legal concept, that’s part of their play.
Sure, but what I want to know is why they feel comfortable making immoral decisions. Are they all psychopaths? Psychopathy is known to be more common in the C-suite, by some estimates 3.5% of executives are psychopaths. Businesses reward those who deliver good business outcomes, and psychopaths might tend do better at that with no pesky moral compass to get in the way. But the rest are just average people, probably no different than the general populace when it comes to measures of morality. So if 95%+ of oil company executives are not inherently less moral than the rest of us, why the hell would they be willing to make decisions that literally destroy the fucking planet?? I mean, the oil companies knew climate change was a big fucking problem decades ago, and they still did what they did. How the fuck does that even happen??
My thesis here is that the corporate structure itself is sufficient to compel otherwise moral people to make choices that are absolutely heinous when viewed objectively. When you’re faced with an option that makes your corporate targets and nets you a bonus but irreparably harms some distant other, the average person will tend to make the immoral choice. They’ll rationalize it, they’ll minimize it, but ultimately they will happily fuck over someone in another country, another generation, or hell, just in another office, so they can make a buck.
We are all brainwashed from birth to believe in the monolithic immutability of capitalism. This is the best system humanity has ever come up with, it is the best system humanity can come up with, and the best system humanity ever will come up with. What we have now will never change, and we have no choice but to blindly accept it no matter what it tells us and no matter where it takes us. This is what we are told day and night.
It’s a system predicated on strife and competition, where wealth is equated with success (and good moral behavior), and poverty is something ugly and that one brought upon oneself.
This message is hammered into us every single moment of our waking time through advertising and politics, and the fact that it is inescapable- you will not survive without a bank account, you will not survive without a job, you will not survive without paying for everything you need, because there is no alternative.
Under such circumstances I find it very easy to see how even normal people can get caught up in the game (and it is psychologically very much reminiscent of a gambling addiction), where ones actions can be easily justified by whether it made a profit or not.
Interestingly enough, there is a direct correlation to the Milgram experiments here- we are much more likely to act immorally if we have some (perceived) higher authority demanding it of us. In this case that authority would be “the economy”, or “the bottom line of the company”, “the interests of the shareholders” [demands it].
Would any group structure of the size you describe lead to the same state of affairs? Does this include government as well as any community that collects over any life activity?
I don’t think it’s inevitable with large groups. Take charities for example. There are very large charities that do very good work, and don’t exhibit the kind of fuckery we see in the corporate world. There are certainly bad charities too, but I’d argue those are fraudulent charities run by unethical people.
So what’s the difference between a large reputable charity, and a corporation at a similar scale in terms of number of people involved, and amount of money involved? One is nonprofit, the other is for profit. So it’s large group plus profit motive that causes the drift toward amorality.
But corporations are people, remember?
Are they the sort of people that can be taken out with a bat to the back of their heads?
Seriously. We have fossil fuel companies knowingly and willingly destroying the planet in the name of profits. Where’s the outrage over that? Or is that moral and ethical?
But when we’re talking about technologies that give power to the people to break from the shackles of the content cartels, then all of a sudden, out come the morality police!
I don’t think they are amoral, they follow a rudimentary set of moral principles as in the question “what is good behavior for a company?” can be answered with “to make profit” in any capitalist structure.
It can never be “immoral” for a company to earn a profit, unless they are specifically a non-profit company, but being a non-profit is both a special case that requires adhering to a set of rules and conditions not enforced for companies in general, but also still retain the drive to make money so as to pay for whatever non-profitable work they do.
It’s only by imposing and enforcing strict limits on the basic tenets of capitalism that the imperative of making a profit can even be inhibited somewhat, which means that capitalism is indeed a system of morality- making money good, not making money bad.
Which is completely fucked up and supersedes all human agency, but here we are…
Your ideas are intriguing to me, and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.
Unless you can get taxpayers to pay for it
I personally only pirate indie games to make sure only triple A titles are profitable.
The… Anti-Giga Chad??
Bobby Kotick’s alt account?
Lawful evil