I think its hard for some americans to understand that welfare in Europe is not an utopia. I personally believe the estate needs to provide help and support to citizens including healthcare and basic education at a minimum. Ideally some basic help for people that are unable to work and whatever is needed for people to not be on the street.

My biggest issue is as it is right now I can see how much money I have been putting over the years and how much extra money I still need to put on top privately to have a quality of life for things such as pension, salary insurance, etc. So while almost half my salary goes out as taxes I still need to contribute on my own to private companies. On top of that I can see people that can take advantage of the system and between the high taxes and all the help you can get (house help, unemployment, lids, etc.) theres people not working that get almost as much as an engineer working full time. I think something is off.

But this has nothing to do with the post of why american companies choose to pay more than european ones.

I didnt expect so many replies and its hard to keep with comments so sometimes I may have skimmed some replies too fast (like your comment on taxes for companies ;)). Im also on phone.

People have also started talking about welfare and taxation which is irrelevant to the question which was why US companies pay more (pre-tax). I think this dereiled and I wanted to edit the post to l clarify but my mobile client doesnt have edit post functionality yet. I have to admit I got a bit annoyed because that had nothing to do with my question and turned into a us vs europe welfare/benefits which has nothing to do with pre-tax salaries. When broght that even in Europe with the same welfare and benefits US companies pay mroe people still kept talking about welfare. Its a bit annoying to be fair

Loyalty is all great until a depression comes or a bad decission causes layoffs. Then suddenly all the loyalty and being a family means nothing. I think back in the days when 5% raises were the norm and you could buy a house in 5 years on one income being loyal made sense. Now since companies do not keep up with inflation and the standards of living are so high I believe its in your best interest to do whatever its needed to get a better job. If staying in the same company gives you that its great but most often than not changing jobs often and testing the market will do you better imho.

Everyone or almost everyone is in an union here. My point was these statistics that come from the union are very reliable so when I say american companies pay 30-80% more consistently here it is quite accurate. Its not some online poll or something I have heard.

My point still stands that while laws and welfare are different in the US when an american company comes to Europe it must follow its local laws. At that point its the same as a local one but chooses to pay way more.

There is a clear difference in pay between american and non american companies here and that I think can only be attributed to american companies choosing to pay more to attract talent and european ones being more relaxed and pay average attracting more average talent. I think this is a cultural thing where the US is a more competitive country and benefits us (developers).

I think sometimes its also the ilusion of safety. An european company can fire you basically at will in Denmark - its just not often people get fired unless the company is struggling a lot. But it can happen. I saw the case personally with someone getting fired because the manager didnt like him even though he worked well in a local company and no one beats and eye.

The american companies here still have at least some local managers. So perhaps theres some meetings a bit late sometimes but other than that its the same as a local company. Except you get paid way more for the same job.

And since they follow the same laws and regulations as any orher local company I think its better off to work for these. In the event you get fired you got some extra money by working in one and can get another job in another one after.

I see your point better now - thanks for claryfing. Still shouldnt european companies that have massive profits choose to pay also way more? I cant see much difference between salaries in local companies (even with big well profitable ones). I would expect some to pay 2x for example then if they can afford it (they can in some cases I know).

But from what you suggest it may be possinle for some american companies in europe to benefit from some taxation stuff and by doing so they can pay more. What I hear is they can pay more and choose to do so to get talent in contrast with local companies that could do the same bur rather keep it to them instead. So again without trying to sound arrogant I think US rewards talent and europe mediocrity.

I know the numbers by heart. And getting 100k usd before taxes is hard in Europe. No one usually talks after taxes that doesnt make sense as taxation changes among countries and your situation (some people get more tax exemptions than others for example if you have loans)

Each country has its own things that are better and worse. At the end of the day US companies pay more before taxes than european ones do for the same job. And when american companies come to Europe they also pay more.

I think the discussion of welfare, taxes, etc. is another talk which is independent of this post which id about before taxes salaries for the same type of jobs.

That could explain some but still “old” hardware companies not even software ones can pay well above market here. I would imagine these to be more similar to european stable companies.

I think ultimately the US choses to pay more for certain jobs at the expense of some others getting less. In Norway for example I read somewhere software developers only make 20% more than the average worker. I think that would be unimaginable in the US. Theres simply not the same reward for hard work in Europe as theres in USA and I think its dangerous because it tells people to do the bare minimum and make Europe less competitive. Why study for 5 years and work hard (mentally) all your life when you can just work in a factory or flip burgers etc for next to the same?

Reading some comments I think laws are weaker in the US and companies need to pay more as hiring a worker there is closer to hiring a contractor here in terms on how easy is to fire. But still these companies choose to pay more when they come to Europe to attract talent.

I dont remember the exact numbers but it was around 1/5-1/6 of what I make a year now. I mean if you have the house fully paid and dont have any expense other than food maybe its technically possible but its so low you need the private one. And if you rent all your life like some people do then Im not sure what would be your options.

In the danish reddit people also say take an american job in denmark never look back. The best of both worlds american salary with danish welfare and protection laws. I was just trying to understand why its only them that pay well and the rest dont do more than average.

But they pay 30-80% than non americsn companies where I work. Same country same laws same taxes. They still pay way more.

Most people take these statistics where I work and are very reliable. Theyre so reliable than when you go take a salary negotiation they pull them out and say you should get around that and its not much more you can get usually. Unless the company is american. Then again 30-80% more than average is expected according to these surveys which have been correct so far everytime Ive used them.

Its so ridiculous than a newly graduated engineer that is lucky to work for an american company can get more salary than a person with 20 years experience in an average company. And thats why I created the post why do americans pay more even outside of America.

I think your country is my country. 60% top skat… still no decent public pension. Where the money goes who knows.

I am older than you think but I still need to pay out of pocket for most things and get an insurance for unemployment and invest my pension. At that point even when Im older other than healthcare and kids getting a free education theres not much more Id get out of the welfare. If I get sick its the insursnce that pays for me again. At some point paying 50% taxes and when Im old I basically have no pension feels so wrong. I feel taken advantage of. When Im old if I cant drive id sell the house and move to a smaller apartment in a city like most old people do. Again the country is not giving me anything or helping me its only my investments and decisions that would give me a bright future.

However if I slack off and Im a parasite the welfare will help me no problem. Im not that kind of person but it feels thats what my taxes pay for for the rest of my life.

But theres american companies here and as I wrote pay 30-80% more. They need to follow the law like everyone else yet still find possible to pay so much more without issue.

In the US the gap is even higher but we can focus on Europe then. American companies in Europe pay a lot more. Why can they afford it and why european counterparts consistently pay around their average? American companies like to come to Europe because they can get away paying less they pay in USA.

You mean the ones that benefit from my taxes get those? Other than healthcare I fail to see what I get where I live. I think Id pay less than 20% in taxes and health insurance in Switzerland vs 50% now and still get the same benefits.

The US companies still pay quite more in Europe and not only the FAANG ones.

All these benefits come out of my taxes. The before taxes salary is still higher in USA for most people. Whether your government is inefficient is another question but your companies pay more even here.

Im aware one of the few ways to get some decent salary here is do contract work. Same job as regular employee but 2x the salary. Ofc no sick leave, etc.

Still US companies pay according to my union statistics 30-80% more and they cant go around the law.

The guy making 400kusd a year can probably save and invest 100k a year and retire after 10 years. He can then come enjoy all the european benefits if he wants. Im sure he lives better off.

What do we get from the welfare system? Healthcare is great but its not much more than that I get. I wouldnt mind paying for education if that means Ill get more money for the next 30 years of my life. While I get unemployment its actually because I pay for an insursnce for it. I contribute to a private pension as I cant rely on the public one. Theres a lot of benefits of which I get nothing because I have a “high” paying job. So again I fail to see what this welfare system brings to me. It seems I am just paying for everyone else (other than again healthcare).

Healthcare sucks in USA.

Everything else is fine. If you pay 100k usd for your degree but make 2x youll pay it well over in the next 30 years of your work life.

Cars are much cheaper. Fuel is cheaper. Housing is mixed. WFH is easier in USA so you can livr somewhere cheap. Food is cheaper usually.

Ive been hearing we get a lot of things in Europe but other than healthcare I fail to see what we get. I still have my private pension as the public one I cant live on for example even though I pay close to 50% in taxes. Healthcare is free and great thsts true but thsts it.

I can see statistics of US companies vs non US companies where I am and they consistently pay 30-80% above market value. I havent seen one go below 30% over. Its not only FAANGS. They just pay much more

Not all do but these salaries simply dont exist here. Even when an american company hires in Europe they pay easily 50% over market. Stock is salary and most can be cashed out eventually.