The only argument I’ve heard that makes any sense is against gender surgery or hormone treatments, with the argument being that they’re not adults and may regret having that medical intervention later. Truth be told, I don’t know enough to say whether that’s right or wrong, but I do think that’s a reasonable argument (but I would want to hear actual medical opinions over this instead of feelings opinions).
But pretty much everything else about it is silly and undisguised bigotry.
Not teaching kids about being queer isn’t going to make them not queer, as queerness existed before we named it. Dismissing it as a phase is kind of pointless as even if it were a phase, exploring pronouns and gender identity isn’t going to hurt them. Saying it’s just a mental illness to be queer is harmful and even if true it has a reliable treatment called gender affirming care. Stuff like making kids get parental permission to be addressed by preferred pronouns is clearly setting up abusive situations, so I don’t get how any (non bigoted) people can fully support that.
Maybe the one other thing is I do think drag story time is weird. I know the argument is it’s like an actor known for R rated movies doing G rated ones, but drag shows are more like an adult burlesque show and I wouldn’t bring kids to burlesque story hour either. People being in drag doesn’t bother me, but the drag queen thing is different to that.
Edit: I accept that the first doesn’t happen, my point was just that doctors who are sworn not to harm people should be the only ones deciding what medical decisions people are allowed to make.
The second one is a bad comparison yes, but I’m allowed to personally not like it. I don’t think it should be banned or that it is what people say it is.
Drag Queens are just people dressed fancily in a different gender’s clothing. It is not sexual or inherently adult oriented. As Drag performers are artists and performers most are quite capable of tailoring their act for their audience so a show for families is not the sane act as one for adult clubs.
You are really confused by the looks of your post.
It sounds like you have the radical fascist talk shiw host understanding of the issues rather than the rational person’s basic knowledge of reality understanding. The things you listed arent happening. They are things that the psychotically christofascists made up, and then pointed to fake news sites or Facebook memes to back their claims.
We live in an age where we have countless information at our fingertips. Google scholar is literally a browser click away. If they don’t like social media answers from individuals because they’re too rude then they should do their own research, on their own time, instead of complaining about the quality of free labor from a minority group that is constantly forced to justify their existence ALL the time. 🤷♂️
That’s not fair to OP. He didn’t complain about the answers anywhere. I’m just suggesting to folks here that maybe you’d reach more people if you didn’t imply that anyone who asks a question is either stupid or malicious.
It doesn’t seem too crazy to me to say that someone should be able to enter a conversation and say they don’t know something without being attacked.
The whole point is to give educated information to children/teenagers. If one goes to the counselor and tells that they think they might be trans, the school will give proper information about it.
People act as if drugs are being given in lunch time to the kids.
If you want to be upset about children getting gender surgeries, then rage at circumcisions and forced gender reassignment for intersex infants, because no one is giving transgender children gender surgery or hormone treatments. The only thing kids may receive (within the us and canada, I’m not sure about other countries) is puberty blockers, which are safe and reversible simply by stopping their usage. https://www.healthline.com/health/are-puberty-blockers-reversible
Drag storytime is not sexual at all, don’t fall for that lie. There are many different types of drag shows; storytime and adult burlesque are miles apart in differences.
I was plenty nice. If you had to constantly defend your existence, you might get a little touchy about it too. You do not have the right to tell me how to react to that… are trans people not allowed a bit of frustration when we have to deal with this 24/7? I do not owe anyone pleasantries when they’re pushing propaganda, and whether they meant to or not is irrelevant when the outcome is the same- propaganda being pushed. You’re welcome for the link, but please stop telling trans people how they should act, yeah?
I hear you, that seems like it would be frustrating. I just think you’re doing your own cause a disservice by attacking folks that admit they don’t know. I think in OP’s case you’re painting them as a adversary when they’re mostly on your side.
Anyway, you do you, I’m just hoping you’ll think about it a bit. All the best.
Trans folks do not owe you kindness as payment for existence. Do not respond, I’ll be blocking you cause you’re still trying to tell me how I should act in the face of anti-trans propaganda, which is pretty fucked up.
A person can choose to learn by repeating lies on social media so they can be “dog-piled” and have their statements picked apart, or they can google “what trans healthcare can minors access in Canada?” If they choose the former, they probably have thick skin by now.
I getcha, I’m just saying that engaging with people who ask a question by implying they’re stupid or malicious isn’t a great way to reach them, or others that read what you’ve written.
Actually, I directly suggested they were misinformed and not malicious, rather than implying anything. Since then, they confirmed their intent by moving the goalposts away from their clearly disprovable point, rather than acknowledging that they might have been misinformed by an irresponsible source.
I’ve thought about this issue plenty, thank you for implying that I’m acting thoughtlessly.
You are spreading lies. I hope it’s unintentional.
Minors are not getting gender surgery and the few that get access to anything hormonal are not offered anything irreversible.
Equating “story time” with adult burlesque is just simple bigotry. Someone dressing up as a princess to read a story to kids isn’t burlesque, regardless of their gender.
Well, I’m no medical professional, but medical professionals have been prescribing puberty blockers for other things for decades, and if they were as dangerous as all that, then you’d think the FDA would have banned that by now.
Besides which, access to treatments like those ones are documented to reduce rates of self-harm, including suicide, among kids with gender dysphoria. And if your metric is the body turning out like it would have without these treatments, well, I hope I don’t need to fill in the blank for you.
More than suicide yes, but the science is not there to be able to say its basically reversible.
It will have an effect being without sex hormones during when you should have started puberty.
Im not against the treatment, it just sounds ridicolous to say its will have no impact on your boodys development.
Those are rational concerns. They really are. And these are all concerns that a physician could address when talking to their patients who might be starting to question their gender. And that’s how it should stay.
All that to say that unless you are a trained physician, or are an adult experiencing gender dysphoria, or are the parent of a child experiencing it, it’s none of your business. Trans people exist. Let them exist peacefully.
Wait, did I misunderstand you the whole time? Are you actually saying that the problem with puberty blockers is that they block puberty? Did you somehow miss where that’s literally the entire point of them?
Also, repeating the same claim you just made again while ignoring the authoritative source I just provided that contradicts it is some shit I see creationists doing. Not a good look. If you support trans people, like you say in your next comment, then why are you arguing this in the same way someone who doesn’t support trans people would?
Minors are not getting gender surgery and the few that get access to anything hormonal are not offered anything irreversible.
I should clarify, I don’t know what care is given and I think doctors are the only ones who should be opining on this. I would assume doctors aren’t doing anything they know will cause harm.
Equating “story time” with adult burlesque is just simple bigotry. Someone dressing up as a princess to read a story to kids isn’t burlesque, regardless of their gender.
I know it’s not the same as a burlesque show and they don’t dress like they’re performing in one. What I meant was a story time lead by burlesque performers (out of full costume) would feel weird to me, and for the same reason drag story hour kinda feels weird too. There’s nothing wrong with drag in and of itself.
How do you know story time is lead by burlesque performers? And how would you know if a woman in the library reading to kids is not also a night performer? You are the one making that connection. Gender and gendered clothing are not sex. The reason they are making a big deal out drag story time is to associate cross-dressing with sexual performance (i.e., inappropriate for kids). Why, you ask? So that the mere existence of trans women in our communities can be considered inappropriate.
When you’re a child who doesnt know or care what sex is, flamboyant people in flamboyant clothes are really entertaining and engaging.
The radical christofascist conservatwits want children to be forced by fear and punishment to do and learn “what’s right” by grey men in grey suits who sexually assault their children while their wife is out shopping.
You are not logged in. However you can subscribe from another Fediverse account, for example Lemmy or Mastodon. To do this, paste the following into the search field of your instance: !canada@lemmy.ca
The only argument I’ve heard that makes any sense is against gender surgery or hormone treatments, with the argument being that they’re not adults and may regret having that medical intervention later. Truth be told, I don’t know enough to say whether that’s right or wrong, but I do think that’s a reasonable argument (but I would want to hear actual medical opinions over this instead of feelings opinions).
But pretty much everything else about it is silly and undisguised bigotry.
Not teaching kids about being queer isn’t going to make them not queer, as queerness existed before we named it. Dismissing it as a phase is kind of pointless as even if it were a phase, exploring pronouns and gender identity isn’t going to hurt them. Saying it’s just a mental illness to be queer is harmful and even if true it has a reliable treatment called gender affirming care. Stuff like making kids get parental permission to be addressed by preferred pronouns is clearly setting up abusive situations, so I don’t get how any (non bigoted) people can fully support that.
Maybe the one other thing is I do think drag story time is weird. I know the argument is it’s like an actor known for R rated movies doing G rated ones, but drag shows are more like an adult burlesque show and I wouldn’t bring kids to burlesque story hour either. People being in drag doesn’t bother me, but the drag queen thing is different to that.
Edit: I accept that the first doesn’t happen, my point was just that doctors who are sworn not to harm people should be the only ones deciding what medical decisions people are allowed to make.
The second one is a bad comparison yes, but I’m allowed to personally not like it. I don’t think it should be banned or that it is what people say it is.
Drag Queens are just people dressed fancily in a different gender’s clothing. It is not sexual or inherently adult oriented. As Drag performers are artists and performers most are quite capable of tailoring their act for their audience so a show for families is not the sane act as one for adult clubs.
You are really confused by the looks of your post.
It sounds like you have the radical fascist talk shiw host understanding of the issues rather than the rational person’s basic knowledge of reality understanding. The things you listed arent happening. They are things that the psychotically christofascists made up, and then pointed to fake news sites or Facebook memes to back their claims.
This is a pretty rude answer to someone admitting they don’t know much about a subject.
We live in an age where we have countless information at our fingertips. Google scholar is literally a browser click away. If they don’t like social media answers from individuals because they’re too rude then they should do their own research, on their own time, instead of complaining about the quality of free labor from a minority group that is constantly forced to justify their existence ALL the time. 🤷♂️
That’s not fair to OP. He didn’t complain about the answers anywhere. I’m just suggesting to folks here that maybe you’d reach more people if you didn’t imply that anyone who asks a question is either stupid or malicious.
It doesn’t seem too crazy to me to say that someone should be able to enter a conversation and say they don’t know something without being attacked.
OK now I now you’re trolling. Where did I attack the person I was responding to? This is just manufactured drama, how very reddit of you.
The whole point is to give educated information to children/teenagers. If one goes to the counselor and tells that they think they might be trans, the school will give proper information about it.
People act as if drugs are being given in lunch time to the kids.
Or as if the school is involved in transitioning the child.
If you want to be upset about children getting gender surgeries, then rage at circumcisions and forced gender reassignment for intersex infants, because no one is giving transgender children gender surgery or hormone treatments. The only thing kids may receive (within the us and canada, I’m not sure about other countries) is puberty blockers, which are safe and reversible simply by stopping their usage.
https://www.healthline.com/health/are-puberty-blockers-reversible
Drag storytime is not sexual at all, don’t fall for that lie. There are many different types of drag shows; storytime and adult burlesque are miles apart in differences.
This is informative but kinda of rude. The OP just said they don’t know if that’s a valid concern or not they didn’t “want to be upset” at anything.
Sorry to jump on this, but I just find that people immediately dogpile on anyone who says anything other than “pride good”.
Appreciate the link and info though.
I was plenty nice. If you had to constantly defend your existence, you might get a little touchy about it too. You do not have the right to tell me how to react to that… are trans people not allowed a bit of frustration when we have to deal with this 24/7? I do not owe anyone pleasantries when they’re pushing propaganda, and whether they meant to or not is irrelevant when the outcome is the same- propaganda being pushed. You’re welcome for the link, but please stop telling trans people how they should act, yeah?
I hear you, that seems like it would be frustrating. I just think you’re doing your own cause a disservice by attacking folks that admit they don’t know. I think in OP’s case you’re painting them as a adversary when they’re mostly on your side.
Anyway, you do you, I’m just hoping you’ll think about it a bit. All the best.
Do you tell Jewish people they should be kind to antisemitic remarks? Being nice to bigoted shittakes is not a way to live
Trans folks do not owe you kindness as payment for existence. Do not respond, I’ll be blocking you cause you’re still trying to tell me how I should act in the face of anti-trans propaganda, which is pretty fucked up.
I’m just asking questions…
A person can choose to learn by repeating lies on social media so they can be “dog-piled” and have their statements picked apart, or they can google “what trans healthcare can minors access in Canada?” If they choose the former, they probably have thick skin by now.
I getcha, I’m just saying that engaging with people who ask a question by implying they’re stupid or malicious isn’t a great way to reach them, or others that read what you’ve written.
Maybe you disagree, but just think about it some.
Actually, I directly suggested they were misinformed and not malicious, rather than implying anything. Since then, they confirmed their intent by moving the goalposts away from their clearly disprovable point, rather than acknowledging that they might have been misinformed by an irresponsible source.
I’ve thought about this issue plenty, thank you for implying that I’m acting thoughtlessly.
You are spreading lies. I hope it’s unintentional.
Minors are not getting gender surgery and the few that get access to anything hormonal are not offered anything irreversible.
Equating “story time” with adult burlesque is just simple bigotry. Someone dressing up as a princess to read a story to kids isn’t burlesque, regardless of their gender.
So delaying or stopping puberty, for how long? your body will turn out exactly like if you had not delayed/stopped hormones?
Well, I’m no medical professional, but medical professionals have been prescribing puberty blockers for other things for decades, and if they were as dangerous as all that, then you’d think the FDA would have banned that by now.
Besides which, access to treatments like those ones are documented to reduce rates of self-harm, including suicide, among kids with gender dysphoria. And if your metric is the body turning out like it would have without these treatments, well, I hope I don’t need to fill in the blank for you.
Yeah that is good for them. It just seems wrong to say its reversible.
They’re more reversible than suicide.
But sure, I hear you, that doesn’t actually answer the question. So here’s an authoritative source on the matter. To drastically hyper-over-simplify, they basically are.
More than suicide yes, but the science is not there to be able to say its basically reversible. It will have an effect being without sex hormones during when you should have started puberty. Im not against the treatment, it just sounds ridicolous to say its will have no impact on your boodys development.
Those are rational concerns. They really are. And these are all concerns that a physician could address when talking to their patients who might be starting to question their gender. And that’s how it should stay.
All that to say that unless you are a trained physician, or are an adult experiencing gender dysphoria, or are the parent of a child experiencing it, it’s none of your business. Trans people exist. Let them exist peacefully.
Why do you think im against trans people? Im not, the poster above complained about missinfo while saying its fully reversrble.
Wait, did I misunderstand you the whole time? Are you actually saying that the problem with puberty blockers is that they block puberty? Did you somehow miss where that’s literally the entire point of them?
Also, repeating the same claim you just made again while ignoring the authoritative source I just provided that contradicts it is some shit I see creationists doing. Not a good look. If you support trans people, like you say in your next comment, then why are you arguing this in the same way someone who doesn’t support trans people would?
If you want to know those things, educate yourself. I recommend google scholar.
I should clarify, I don’t know what care is given and I think doctors are the only ones who should be opining on this. I would assume doctors aren’t doing anything they know will cause harm.
I know it’s not the same as a burlesque show and they don’t dress like they’re performing in one. What I meant was a story time lead by burlesque performers (out of full costume) would feel weird to me, and for the same reason drag story hour kinda feels weird too. There’s nothing wrong with drag in and of itself.
How do you know story time is lead by burlesque performers? And how would you know if a woman in the library reading to kids is not also a night performer? You are the one making that connection. Gender and gendered clothing are not sex. The reason they are making a big deal out drag story time is to associate cross-dressing with sexual performance (i.e., inappropriate for kids). Why, you ask? So that the mere existence of trans women in our communities can be considered inappropriate.
When you’re a child who doesnt know or care what sex is, flamboyant people in flamboyant clothes are really entertaining and engaging.
The radical christofascist conservatwits want children to be forced by fear and punishment to do and learn “what’s right” by grey men in grey suits who sexually assault their children while their wife is out shopping.