There’s a lot of people here immediately jumping to the “cell phones bad!” conclusion.
Phones are a part of kids lives nowadays. Banning them in schools isn’t going to help anyone. How are children supposed to learn to use technology safely and effectively if we just take it away from them instead? I don’t want to imply that it is only a teachers job to teach kids about safe technology use, because it isn’t, but kids spend 30+ hours a week at school. It is a large portion of their lives and what they learn in the classroom often ends up reflected in their lives outside of school.
I think everyone who jumps to the conclusion to ban cell phones in schools is missing the point. All it does is encourage kids to use their technology in unsupervised spaces instead. It doesn’t teach them how to use it safely or effectively, and it doesn’t prevent them from participating in cyber bullying. All it does is push issues such as that outside of the school where kids have arguably less resources and support systems to deal with it.
We can all agree that alcohol isn’t bad by itself and that we can learn to use it safely (don’t drink too much, knowing when we had enough etc…). And yet we keep away alcohol from children. Why? Because it is a well-known fact that children may not have the capability to limit themselves; they might very well become addicted and fall into it.
Why should it be any different for mobile phones? We know it can become an addiction. And we also know that children do not have the means to limit themselves because of their young age.
Deliberately letting a kid having a phone for an indefinite amount of time is being irresponsible. What would be responsible is only allowing to use the phone for a limited time.
Schools banning phone could be one way towards that. It would be a good way too because the kid would not be suffering from any social pressure from their peers as everyone would be concerned with the ban.
I started learning to code at 9 years old and that helped me become a professional developer in my teens. Preventing access to technology is just removing opportunities from your children. Teach them responsible usage, if it was possible 30 years ago it’s possible now.
I’m all in to get programming classes where children learn to code on PCs. That’s a high pass for me. But AFAIK children aren’t doing programming on their phones.
In general i doubt using a phone at school is going to help them program or teach them about technology. They have plenty of time to explore phones on their own when they get home, especially now that kids don’t go much outside anymore. It’s not like a school ban would be cutting that away from them.
This is just a bad comparison, comparing a drug to electronics makes literally 0 sense.
We don’t let kids eat during class because it’s disruptive, should we ban eating in schools all together? Kids aren’t allowed to play sports in the hallways, sports can cause injuries, ban sports at school?
That’s the logic of this comparison, that is, none at all.
I am comparing a drug to a drug that’s the whole point. Phones are drugs. For adults and children alike.
The problem is not in the phone itself. It’s in the lack of doing things that kids should normally be doing at that age. They will play with their phone instead of playing physically (less tonus), sleeping (constant tiredness), talking with their parents (learning) or other kids (socializing).
I know kids like that in my family. You can tell from the dark lines under their eyes that they spend most of their day staring at a screen. And if you ask them to play outside they just don’t know what to do, they need access to a screen even with other kids. It’s really a scary sight. And its a drug yes
It’s an analogy. It’s inaccurate as all analogies are. Yet it’s useful to make the point that banning children from doing X or Y isn’t unprecedented or unacceptable.
Kids go to school for much more than what they learn in class. A fully formed human being that can function in a society requires a lot of social interaction training. That’s what school is for in-between classes. If kids are staring down their phones during that time instead of interacting with each other, that training is lost. Worse, instead of that, they get trained on a false social reality as portrayed by whatever enshittified platform they’re currently on, based on whatever behavior makes the most money today. Is this enough to visualize the damage phones in hallways cause?
I give my children unfettered access to technology. It is very much a last resort for them, only picking up a device when they have exhausted all other visible opportunity to do something more interesting. Suggesting that they do almost anything else is met with “Yeah! Let’s do that!”
If a student is reaching for their phone in class, the problem is with something about the class. Being old, cell phones came in giant bags when I was a student, but we played with our calculators, doodled, or anything else to stave off the same boredom when we had a horrible teacher who had no clue as to what they were doing. The phone is just a more modern version of the exact same quest for distraction.
I think the point is that we need to question why we are wasting our students’ time in classes which are not providing value. There is a lot of sentimental attachment to school, but ultimately there is no need for make work projects. The focus needs to be on delivering value and where that is not being delivered a rethink is necessary.
Phone use, or any such distraction, is a symptom telling us that there is a problem in value delivery. Suppressing a symptom does not cure the illness.
In that case there should be some time dedicated to that topic.
Otherwise, they have all that technology in hand as soon as classes finish. The younger generations are all born with tablets and smartphones in their hands.
I’m really not worried about them learning how they work.
Heck, we had a PC at home and I learned how to use DOS as soon as I learned how to read just so I could play games.
Cars are very much part of our lives and we decided that there was a minimum age to own and operate them. I could potentially get behind a system where we don’t let children below a certain age operate / own a phone.
It’s illegal to smoke with a kid in your car, but we have no problem giving a 10 year old kid unfiltered internet 24/7 as a society.
This is a hot take that I can get on board with. I think in order for this to happen we (as a society) will have to come to grips with the real damage device addiction can do to our lives. The harm is easy to find with second hand smoke and alcohol but we do a great job turning a blind eye to all the issues we’re causing for ourselves by being stuck on our devices.
You are not logged in. However you can subscribe from another Fediverse account, for example Lemmy or Mastodon. To do this, paste the following into the search field of your instance: !canada@lemmy.ca
There’s a lot of people here immediately jumping to the “cell phones bad!” conclusion.
Phones are a part of kids lives nowadays. Banning them in schools isn’t going to help anyone. How are children supposed to learn to use technology safely and effectively if we just take it away from them instead? I don’t want to imply that it is only a teachers job to teach kids about safe technology use, because it isn’t, but kids spend 30+ hours a week at school. It is a large portion of their lives and what they learn in the classroom often ends up reflected in their lives outside of school.
I think everyone who jumps to the conclusion to ban cell phones in schools is missing the point. All it does is encourage kids to use their technology in unsupervised spaces instead. It doesn’t teach them how to use it safely or effectively, and it doesn’t prevent them from participating in cyber bullying. All it does is push issues such as that outside of the school where kids have arguably less resources and support systems to deal with it.
We can all agree that alcohol isn’t bad by itself and that we can learn to use it safely (don’t drink too much, knowing when we had enough etc…). And yet we keep away alcohol from children. Why? Because it is a well-known fact that children may not have the capability to limit themselves; they might very well become addicted and fall into it.
Why should it be any different for mobile phones? We know it can become an addiction. And we also know that children do not have the means to limit themselves because of their young age.
Deliberately letting a kid having a phone for an indefinite amount of time is being irresponsible. What would be responsible is only allowing to use the phone for a limited time.
Schools banning phone could be one way towards that. It would be a good way too because the kid would not be suffering from any social pressure from their peers as everyone would be concerned with the ban.
I started learning to code at 9 years old and that helped me become a professional developer in my teens. Preventing access to technology is just removing opportunities from your children. Teach them responsible usage, if it was possible 30 years ago it’s possible now.
Nobody does programming on their phones
I’m all in to get programming classes where children learn to code on PCs. That’s a high pass for me. But AFAIK children aren’t doing programming on their phones.
In general i doubt using a phone at school is going to help them program or teach them about technology. They have plenty of time to explore phones on their own when they get home, especially now that kids don’t go much outside anymore. It’s not like a school ban would be cutting that away from them.
This is just a bad comparison, comparing a drug to electronics makes literally 0 sense.
We don’t let kids eat during class because it’s disruptive, should we ban eating in schools all together? Kids aren’t allowed to play sports in the hallways, sports can cause injuries, ban sports at school?
That’s the logic of this comparison, that is, none at all.
I am comparing a drug to a drug that’s the whole point. Phones are drugs. For adults and children alike.
The problem is not in the phone itself. It’s in the lack of doing things that kids should normally be doing at that age. They will play with their phone instead of playing physically (less tonus), sleeping (constant tiredness), talking with their parents (learning) or other kids (socializing).
I know kids like that in my family. You can tell from the dark lines under their eyes that they spend most of their day staring at a screen. And if you ask them to play outside they just don’t know what to do, they need access to a screen even with other kids. It’s really a scary sight. And its a drug yes
It’s an analogy. It’s inaccurate as all analogies are. Yet it’s useful to make the point that banning children from doing X or Y isn’t unprecedented or unacceptable.
Kids go to school for much more than what they learn in class. A fully formed human being that can function in a society requires a lot of social interaction training. That’s what school is for in-between classes. If kids are staring down their phones during that time instead of interacting with each other, that training is lost. Worse, instead of that, they get trained on a false social reality as portrayed by whatever enshittified platform they’re currently on, based on whatever behavior makes the most money today. Is this enough to visualize the damage phones in hallways cause?
It has a time and place. I think the point here is that the time and place is not in class.
I give my children unfettered access to technology. It is very much a last resort for them, only picking up a device when they have exhausted all other visible opportunity to do something more interesting. Suggesting that they do almost anything else is met with “Yeah! Let’s do that!”
If a student is reaching for their phone in class, the problem is with something about the class. Being old, cell phones came in giant bags when I was a student, but we played with our calculators, doodled, or anything else to stave off the same boredom when we had a horrible teacher who had no clue as to what they were doing. The phone is just a more modern version of the exact same quest for distraction.
I think the point is that we need to question why we are wasting our students’ time in classes which are not providing value. There is a lot of sentimental attachment to school, but ultimately there is no need for make work projects. The focus needs to be on delivering value and where that is not being delivered a rethink is necessary.
Phone use, or any such distraction, is a symptom telling us that there is a problem in value delivery. Suppressing a symptom does not cure the illness.
You don’t have to look very far to know your n of 1 isn’t representative.
And adding more distraction opportunities doesn’t help.
In that case there should be some time dedicated to that topic.
Otherwise, they have all that technology in hand as soon as classes finish. The younger generations are all born with tablets and smartphones in their hands.
I’m really not worried about them learning how they work.
Heck, we had a PC at home and I learned how to use DOS as soon as I learned how to read just so I could play games.
I think you’re understanding these kids.
This is going to be my hot take of the day.
Cars are very much part of our lives and we decided that there was a minimum age to own and operate them. I could potentially get behind a system where we don’t let children below a certain age operate / own a phone.
It’s illegal to smoke with a kid in your car, but we have no problem giving a 10 year old kid unfiltered internet 24/7 as a society.
This is a hot take that I can get on board with. I think in order for this to happen we (as a society) will have to come to grips with the real damage device addiction can do to our lives. The harm is easy to find with second hand smoke and alcohol but we do a great job turning a blind eye to all the issues we’re causing for ourselves by being stuck on our devices.