A few days ago, David Heinemeier Hansson
announced
that Turbo 8
is dropping TypeScript
. I'm okay with that because I don't even know what Turbo 8 is. However, over the past few years, some frontend programmers have tried to sell me the idea that "TypeScript is useless, just use tests". I think people with such opinions either don't care about code quality or simply don't know what TypeScript is. Here, I will explain why you should use TypeScript.
Writing code that can’t be scientifically proven to be correct on all hardware it might run on means you don’t care about code quality. /s
The Internet is full of people with a bloated ego trying to justify their opinion and gatekeeping others.
I see this more and more in software as well.
Not sure if it’s always been like this, or if I just notice it more.
Same way there’s thousands of people giving you a guide to write a task list in , but as soon as you want to use anything slightly more complex than what you can learn from working a few hours with something you quickly run out of material and is usually left to fend for yourself.
That is disturbing. From my perspective, anyway. There are already so many great (and more appropriate) stacks for web backends, why Frankenstein a Frankenstein into it?
Well, usually because you’ve got a team of frontend folks needing to do a backend.
There’s one other advantage, which is that you can have a compile-time shared model between backend and frontend. You also have that advantage with WASM, but not with a traditional backend/frontend technology split…
Compile time is my biggest issue with TypeScript. I’ve used JavaScript for decades with compile time measured in, what, a millisecond or two. Having to wait for TypeScript drives me nuts.
I wrote some TypeScript modules to process a bunch of documentation in markdown to a ton of output formats via pandoc + latex.
No real reason for it, except that I was able to start with the export module of a node-based thing written in JavaScript and iterate from there until I had a working system in CI/CD.
Because at the end of the day TypeScript is still Javascript and it’s still bad. Just has some verbose formats to try and make weakly typed language (javascript) appear to be strongly typed. It adds more build steps to what shouldn’t be there; build steps make sense for apps, they make much less sense for libraries.
I’m sorry. Whoever wrote that should give up trying to write articles. It’s poorly written and will never convince anyone to change their mind. It’s shit. “I know how to convince people they’re wrong. Insult them. Setup a ton of strawman arguments. Genius.”
Second one. Just realized there were two. Being close together and the first being long enough to get trailing “…” it all just looked like one big link when I first saw it. May just be Kbin displaying it that way.
build steps make sense for apps, they make much less sense for libraries.
This might be true, but it’s not about build steps, it’s about having detailed iformation of the types of the objects that the library is serving. not knowing the typing of the functions a library is serving is… poor. Maybe typescript is too strict and having something like type hinting like python has would be enough since linters pick up the hints from the libraries, but doing just JS only fuck the people that use the library.
WASM allows arbitrary code execution in an environment that doesn’t include the DOM… however it can communicate with the page where the DOM is available, and it’s trivial to setup an abstraction layer that gives you the full suite of DOM manipulation tools in your WASM space. Libraries for WASM development generally provide that for you.
For example here’s SwiftWASM:
let document = JSObject.global.document
var divElement = document.createElement("div")
divElement.innerText = "Hello, world"
_ = document.body.appendChild(divElement)
It’s pretty much exactly the same as JavaScript, except you nee to use JSObject to access the document class (Swift can do globals, but they are generally avoided) and swift also presents a compiler warning if you execute a function (like appendChild) without doing anything with the result. Assigning it to a dummy “underscore” variable is the operator in Swift to tell the compiler you don’t want the output.
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Refusing rust and wasm is a signal you don’t care about code quality or security
See? You can keep playing that game all the way down to the most onerous language
Writing code that can’t be scientifically proven to be correct on all hardware it might run on means you don’t care about code quality. /s
The Internet is full of people with a bloated ego trying to justify their opinion and gatekeeping others.
I see this more and more in software as well.
Not sure if it’s always been like this, or if I just notice it more.
Same way there’s thousands of people giving you a guide to write a task list in , but as soon as you want to use anything slightly more complex than what you can learn from working a few hours with something you quickly run out of material and is usually left to fend for yourself.
Actually, if you really care about quality and types on the front end rust+wasm is not a bad idea 🤔
Now that I’ve typed that and read it back, were people using TypeScript for anything other than front-end web dev?
It was used pretty frequently for back end APIs too
That is disturbing. From my perspective, anyway. There are already so many great (and more appropriate) stacks for web backends, why Frankenstein a Frankenstein into it?
🤷 people like nodejs and people like type hinting and IDE reflection. Typescript helps a lot with that
Well, usually because you’ve got a team of frontend folks needing to do a backend.
There’s one other advantage, which is that you can have a compile-time shared model between backend and frontend. You also have that advantage with WASM, but not with a traditional backend/frontend technology split…
Compile time is my biggest issue with TypeScript. I’ve used JavaScript for decades with compile time measured in, what, a millisecond or two. Having to wait for TypeScript drives me nuts.
I wrote some TypeScript modules to process a bunch of documentation in markdown to a ton of output formats via pandoc + latex.
No real reason for it, except that I was able to start with the export module of a node-based thing written in JavaScript and iterate from there until I had a working system in CI/CD.
That’s actually pretty neat!
Because at the end of the day TypeScript is still Javascript and it’s still bad. Just has some verbose formats to try and make weakly typed language (javascript) appear to be strongly typed. It adds more build steps to what shouldn’t be there; build steps make sense for apps, they make much less sense for libraries.
https://dev.to/bettercodingacademy/typescript-is-a-waste-of-time-change-my-mind-pi8
https://medium.com/@tsecretdeveloper/typescript-is-wrong-for-you-875a09e10176
I’m sorry. Whoever wrote that should give up trying to write articles. It’s poorly written and will never convince anyone to change their mind. It’s shit. “I know how to convince people they’re wrong. Insult them. Setup a ton of strawman arguments. Genius.”
Whoever wrote that is bad and should feel bad.
Which one? There were multiple links in that comment.
Second one. Just realized there were two. Being close together and the first being long enough to get trailing “…” it all just looked like one big link when I first saw it. May just be Kbin displaying it that way.
This might be true, but it’s not about build steps, it’s about having detailed iformation of the types of the objects that the library is serving. not knowing the typing of the functions a library is serving is… poor. Maybe typescript is too strict and having something like type hinting like python has would be enough since linters pick up the hints from the libraries, but doing just JS only fuck the people that use the library.
We use TypeScript for our node.js backends.
We had two that started out vanilla, but it became too painful to maintain.
@RandoCalrandian @vitonsky
Languages are just tools, so let’s take the shortcut to the xkcd about editors 😁
Can wasm manipulate the DOM yet?
It can with some glue code that you better be writing in TypeScript if you care about code quality.
(As far as I know, it can’t manipulate the DOM directly. Maybe things changed in the past couple months since I checked, but I doubt it.)
WASM allows arbitrary code execution in an environment that doesn’t include the DOM… however it can communicate with the page where the DOM is available, and it’s trivial to setup an abstraction layer that gives you the full suite of DOM manipulation tools in your WASM space. Libraries for WASM development generally provide that for you.
For example here’s SwiftWASM:
It’s pretty much exactly the same as JavaScript, except you nee to use JSObject to access the document class (Swift can do globals, but they are generally avoided) and swift also presents a compiler warning if you execute a function (like appendChild) without doing anything with the result. Assigning it to a dummy “underscore” variable is the operator in Swift to tell the compiler you don’t want the output.