If the present rise in antisemitism is rooted in Israeli governmental policy, then before there was an Israeli government, by that logic there should be no cause for antisemitism.
I’m not sure if I should take these seriously. I don’t think observing that Israeli policy has implications for how people view and behave towards Jews suggests that antisemitism was created several years after the Holocaust happened.
Would the inverse be true? Does the existence of antisemitism in prechristian times suggest that the blood libel conspiracies couldn’t have any influence on antisemitism in medieval Europe?
I want to point out for context that in 2019, the American Jewish Electorate survey found that a quarter of American Jews considered Israel to be an apartheid state, and 22% of American Jews thought that the treatment of Palestinians constituted a genocide. That was where American Jews were half a decade ago.
That should have been a huge canary in the coal mine. When the survey results came out, the established Zionist institutions insisted it was some sort of error in the way the data was collected. What that was telling us is now clear: the Likud party’s leadership was able to maintain support among political leaders, but they’d already overdrawn our store of goodwill YEARS ago. Oct. 7 just brought this all back into the news, and now we’re dealing with a loss of reputation that had been building slowly for years.
That doesn’t account for the rise in antisemitism we’ve seen in the last four months, but I think it contributes heavily to the loss of allies who previously served as a crucial bulwark against antisemitism.
I’m not sure if I should take these seriously. I don’t think observing that Israeli policy has implications for how people view and behave towards Jews suggests that antisemitism was created several years after the Holocaust happened.
You missed the point Andrew. I’m saying antisemitism existed prior to 1947. Therefore its existence (and also its rise) can’t be squarely placed on Israel
Would the inverse be true? Does the existence of antisemitism in prechristian times suggest that the blood libel conspiracies couldn’t have any influence on antisemitism in medieval Europe?
Show me an example of any actual acts of pre-Christian antisemitism.
I think this is taking us way off topic, but I’ll answer.
First, I think you’re making a key logical misstep. This isn’t actually relevant, but it’s bugging me:
If antisemitism existed prior to Israel, than Israel cannot be responsible for its invention. Logically sound.
If antisemitism existed prior to Israel, than Israel cannot be responsible for its rise. Logically unsound.
This is separate from the fact that I don’t actually think Israeli policy fosters antisemitism. My working theory is that most antisemitism exists for other awful reasons, but is held at bay by the high cultural standing of Jews, the strength of our social ties to allies, and the protections afforded to us by democratic, multi ethnic societies. Israel’s actions damage all three, which erode the foundations of our defenses.
Second: The story of Esther; The story of Hanukkah; the destruction of the first temple; the destruction of the second temple. And on and on and on.
Like… I’m sorry but what? Did you think we were just having a good time for thousands of years and then people started persecuting Jews in the common era? That makes no sense dude. What does your Sedar look like?
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I’m not sure if I should take these seriously. I don’t think observing that Israeli policy has implications for how people view and behave towards Jews suggests that antisemitism was created several years after the Holocaust happened.
Would the inverse be true? Does the existence of antisemitism in prechristian times suggest that the blood libel conspiracies couldn’t have any influence on antisemitism in medieval Europe?
I want to point out for context that in 2019, the American Jewish Electorate survey found that a quarter of American Jews considered Israel to be an apartheid state, and 22% of American Jews thought that the treatment of Palestinians constituted a genocide. That was where American Jews were half a decade ago.
That should have been a huge canary in the coal mine. When the survey results came out, the established Zionist institutions insisted it was some sort of error in the way the data was collected. What that was telling us is now clear: the Likud party’s leadership was able to maintain support among political leaders, but they’d already overdrawn our store of goodwill YEARS ago. Oct. 7 just brought this all back into the news, and now we’re dealing with a loss of reputation that had been building slowly for years.
That doesn’t account for the rise in antisemitism we’ve seen in the last four months, but I think it contributes heavily to the loss of allies who previously served as a crucial bulwark against antisemitism.
You missed the point Andrew. I’m saying antisemitism existed prior to 1947. Therefore its existence (and also its rise) can’t be squarely placed on Israel
Show me an example of any actual acts of pre-Christian antisemitism.
I think this is taking us way off topic, but I’ll answer.
First, I think you’re making a key logical misstep. This isn’t actually relevant, but it’s bugging me:
If antisemitism existed prior to Israel, than Israel cannot be responsible for its invention. Logically sound.
If antisemitism existed prior to Israel, than Israel cannot be responsible for its rise. Logically unsound.
This is separate from the fact that I don’t actually think Israeli policy fosters antisemitism. My working theory is that most antisemitism exists for other awful reasons, but is held at bay by the high cultural standing of Jews, the strength of our social ties to allies, and the protections afforded to us by democratic, multi ethnic societies. Israel’s actions damage all three, which erode the foundations of our defenses.
Second: The story of Esther; The story of Hanukkah; the destruction of the first temple; the destruction of the second temple. And on and on and on.
Like… I’m sorry but what? Did you think we were just having a good time for thousands of years and then people started persecuting Jews in the common era? That makes no sense dude. What does your Sedar look like?