From the user perspective they are the same. A scam casino is much easier to create than a scam Nike shop.
it’s not. Creating a game is much more complex than putting a bunch of images and text on a web page. Also in order to play casino games you need to deposit money, so you need to also develop that part, a scan shop can simply spoof the payment window and steal the card directly…
Not if the licence is fake.
If you got to know about the casino, chances are it’s a legitimate business. It doesn’t take a PhD also to just double check the website. If you are looking for casinos online digging in the internet, rather than surfing the most prominent businesses, then yes. If you just pick the mainstream ones, you are covered. The chance you lose because the game is rigged is negligible. Also, you are putting money somewhere, you should make some basic checks (it’s enough a 10 second search for the license ID and check your regulator website).
“Might be mandatory” means that it might not be, and for certain casino operators don’t want it.
No, it means that it depends on licenses. Different licenses require different things. If you hold the Maltese license, you need to have it, period. Maybe there are licenses that don’t prescribe that particular thing, hence “might be”.
Yes. There is the objective “designed to steal” scamming and my subjective dislike of betting against a dressed up random number generator.
Games have to be random number generators lol. There is nothing to dress up, that’s exactly what playing casino games is like. It’s a RNG where you have the 50%-the margin chance to win.
This has nothing to do with scamming, or rigging games, which was your initial argument.
Lots of anecdotes along the lines of
Ok… lol
“What I mean by this is my friend is a new bettor, we sit side by side watching the same games at the same time, and the odds are much worse for me. It will show -100000 on my screen and shows -8000 on my friends screen”
Absolutely the bookie will know the customers and might apply different limits and different odds. If you are suspected being a part of a syndicate, for example, you will get worse odds.
This is not a scam, you see exactly what the odds are, it is not hidden from you. This applies to sportsbook, not casino.
All betting sites have blacklists of customers taking advantage of arbitrage between sites.
This has nothing to do with casino or scamming. Also, sure betters are generally not blacklisted, they simply get limits applied as anyway to make any kind of money you need high volumes. Again, what does this have to do with rigging games?
You can’t “rig” sportsbook, when you bet you see clearly what the odds are and you can compare and choose another provider with better odds.
Here are some common online betting scams copied from quora.
Wow, very useful dump.
Have you read the “rigged games” part?
Rigged Games: In some cases, illegitimate gambling sites may manipulate game outcomes to ensure players lose. Stick to reputable sites that use random number generators and undergo regular audits.
Note that 7/10 items in that list are simply scams by individuals targeting other individuals and have nothing to do with casinos.
The only relevant ones are:
Unregulated Casinos
Rigged Games
Unfair Terms and Conditions
The solution for the first 2 is to use licensed providers. The last one is absolutely true, usually in bigger or established businesses, but has nothing to do with rigging games.
Basically nothing of this info dump from Quora (for what is worth) corroborates your argument…
To be honest, is it so hard to admit that you simply don’t like gambling because it’s taking money from people who don’t know better? I agree with that myself, and it’s a sufficient criticism to dislike casinos. There is no need to make up totally false information to add arguments.
No, mainstream, reputable and licensed casinos will not rig games and steal money from you. Yes, they will take money from you in the majority of cases because games - all of them - are designed to benefit the house. No, they don’t help laundering money because in most cases they will get caught and lose the whole business, it’s very, very, very hard to hide activity when you have multiple regulators plus the usual government agencies look at your reports constantly, and all your transactions are tracked.
Creating a game is much more complex than putting a bunch of images and text on a web page.
That’s why scammers usually just pirate and hack small parts of the codebase.
Also in order to play casino games you need to deposit money, so you need to also develop that part, a scan shop can simply spoof the payment window and steal the card directly…
You don’t get as much money that way. Better to encourage larger deposits and “crash” when large withdrawals are requested.
If you got to know about the casino, chances are it’s a legitimate business.
Not necessarily. Popups and emails exist. Especially interesting if they offer free spins.
This has nothing to do with scamming, or rigging games, which was your initial argument.
The original question was “what is wrong with online casinos”. One answer I gave was scammers, then you pressed me for more.
Note that 7/10 items in that list are simply scams by individuals targeting other individuals and have nothing to do with casinos.
DUDE. This is the point. You can’t argue that online casinos are fine so long as you ignore all the bad casinos and scammers.
Unfair Terms and Conditions […] is absolutely true, usually in bigger or established businesses, but has nothing to do with rigging games.
Fuck me. You admit online casinos are unfair then immediately dismiss this as unimportant. Now I suspect I’m arguing against a paid troll.
That’s why scammers usually just pirate and hack small parts of the codebase.
Sure.
EDIT: I don’t even dignify with an answer “hack small parts of the codebase”. I can clearly see you have absolutely no clue of what you are talking about.
You don’t get as much money that way. Better to encourage larger deposits and “crash” when large withdrawals are requested.
Then this is not a rigged game. Again, you said that games are rigged to scam people…
Not necessarily. Popups and emails exist. Especially interesting if they offer free spins.
True, and that’s if the site find you, rather than viceversa. No different than phishing…
The original question was “what is wrong with online casinos”. One answer I gave was scammers, then you pressed me for more.
Your original answer was specific: rigged games and money laundering. None of which is generally true.
DUDE. This is the point. You can’t argue that online casinos are fine so long as you ignore all the bad casinos and scammers.
I already clarified what I consider an “online casino”. it’s irrelevant what a scam website is, it doesn’t say anything about the industry it tries to imitate…
Fuck me. You admit online casinos are unfair then immediately dismiss this as unimportant. Now I suspect I’m arguing against a paid troll.
Don’t move the goalpost. Some casinos use complicate T&C, this has nothing to do with rigging games.
Again, the fact that your arguments are hairdresser gossip doesn’t make me a paid troll. I know the industry and I can use facts to criticize it, which I do (I left it for a reason). You make stuff up and keep changing your argument…
Casino Scam Two: Rigged Games
This casino gaming scam is fairly simple. They run rigged games which let you win for a while, but ultimately rinse you of every penny. This one doesn’t require 4D chess or deviousness fit for a Bond villain, just good old-fashioned rigged software.
The scam casino software companies which create rigged games are fairly well-known by most people who play regularly online or work in the online betting industry. Respected casinos don’t work with them, and respected casino software companies don’t usually work with casinos that do. That’s an important thing to note, because it is the first step to avoiding rigged games. If you see Microgaming, Playtech, NetEnt, or other powerhouse casino software companies in the mix, it’s highly likely that you’re dealing with a legitimate online casino.
However, scam casino operators have gotten wise to this, and as a result, they run pirated versions of otherwise legit games. They’re much more difficult to spot for the untrained eye, because they are clones of the original games with a tweaked code to cheat you.
Dude, you are changing the argument again, as usual.
I got it. Yes, scam website exist. Yes, scan shop websites exist, as exist phishing banking sites, and a universe of things.
You said:
That’s why scammers usually just pirate and hack small parts of the codebase.
This is complete bullshit.
Pirating a game only means copying the look of a legitimate game served on “real” casinos. There is nothing to hack, because you don’t have the codebase. Netent, playtech, evolution, microgaming, they all serve their games via iframes or similar, they integrate with you via API, they whitelist your IPs or authenticate yourself with a token.
Scam casinos might simply look at real games and imitate them, exactly like you might do a fake shop and copy - say - Amazon’s look.
And for the 100th times, this is a negligible problem if you are playing on licensed websites, which in turn used licensed gaming providers.
You are conflating arguments that apply to scam website as if these apply to the wider industry, they don’t! If you are talking about banking, you wouldn’t say “banks steal your data”, because there are scammers that use bank websites to phish people. They are a completely different thing. So, as clear as it can be:
Some scammers might use casinos to scam people. They might spin up fake casino sites (UNLICENSED, of faking a license at most) where games are rigged. These casinos generally can’t advertise anywhere and they are luring people the same way phishing sites lure them in: Spam emails etc.
Rigged games are generally not a problem within the casino industry, as it’s not money laundering. Regulations apply to the vast majority of established businesses which prevent both quite effectively. This is why before putting money in a website you should spend 10 seconds and check that the website has a valid license (from your national authority). Once you have done this, you can stay with that website and be 99.9% sure that games are not rigged (i.e., they use RNG). You will still lose in the long run, but not because they are rigged.
Your source didn’t confirm in any way what you said. Making lookalikes have nothing to do with “hacking small parts of the codebase”.
Also the source itself is a random website lol
My argument is that casinos don’t need to scam by rigging games. A scam site is no more a casino than a phishing site is a banking site.
Do you think banking sites are scams?
Your initial statement was a blanket statement about casinos “rigging games” and “helping laundering money for a cut”. Now you are defending the hill that some scammers use casinos as their vector for scams, which is a completely different thing, that nobody questioned also. It simply has nothing to do with " casinos".
But I see you are one of those people who are clinically incapable of admitting you said something incorrect, even after you said tons of incorrect stuff and you showed to have a very superficial understanding of the gambling industry (my favorite was when you called games "dressed up RNGs, when they are required to be RNG by law, and you really want them to be…).
My argument is that casinos don’t need to scam by rigging games.
And this opinion is incorrect. I would accept that some online casinos don’t need to scam by rigging games.
A scam site is no more a casino than a phishing site is a banking site.
Incorrect. I’ve posted multiple examples of online casino scams, including rigging the games.
Do you think banking sites are scams?
Some are.
Now you are defending the hill that some scammers use casinos as their vector for scams, which is a completely different thing, that nobody questioned also.
Look at the top of this thread. The question was “Why are online casinos bad”.
And this opinion is incorrect. I would accept that some online casinos don’t need to scam by rigging games.
No, it’s not. I discussed and explained already to you that there are several reasons:
Game makers don’t usually have casinos. Their revenues come from other casinos, who in turn don’t have access to the code.
Games are already designed to have a margin for the host.
Rigging games is illegal and would make a casino lose their license. This is a much bigger financial risk than skimming 2-3% more of margin on games.
You instead provided 0 explanation about what you are claiming.
Incorrect. I’ve posted multiple examples of online casino scams, including rigging the games.
You didn’t post any example. You posted statements that mentioned that some website can spoof casinos with rigged games. Those are not casino websites, they hold no licenses and they are not established businesses. They are not part of an industry, exactly like scam banking website are not part of the financial industry.
Some are.
False, again. They are not banking sites lol. No bank would phish their users. There are scammers who impersonate banks, exactly like they impersonate casinos. Your whole argument relies on calling scammers that do X part of the X industry. They are not.
Look at the top of this thread. The question was “Why are online casinos bad”.
And your answer in fact is completely incorrect. Rather than admitting that you have 0 proof or arguments that casinos rig games and enable laundering money, you are now relying purely on a definition of casinos that include the casino scam sites.
I will repeat, your argument is exactly as absurd as the following:
Why are online casinos banks bad?
Sounds more like you just don’t know anything about the gambling financial industry. They run rigged games steal your credit card details in predatory ways. They happily let organised crime launder money for a cut steal people identities.
Hackers have set up fake URLs for UK banks, using website names that sound genuine in order to trick people into handing over their personal information and log-in details.
thinking it is proof. It’s not.
As I said, you clearly have no idea about the industry, you said so many things that show it and then glanced over them to avoid embarrassment, and you ended up moving the goalpost so far, that now your entire stance relies on the fact that scam casino websites are online casinos.
The initial question “why are online casinos bad” clearly referred to businesses which…run online casinos. And 100% your initial answer referred to that too, but once you couldn’t support your argument in any way, you retreated purely onto the scam websites that impersonate casinos.
Is it so hard for you to admit that you made a big statement about something you are not fully knowledgeable?
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it’s not. Creating a game is much more complex than putting a bunch of images and text on a web page. Also in order to play casino games you need to deposit money, so you need to also develop that part, a scan shop can simply spoof the payment window and steal the card directly…
If you got to know about the casino, chances are it’s a legitimate business. It doesn’t take a PhD also to just double check the website. If you are looking for casinos online digging in the internet, rather than surfing the most prominent businesses, then yes. If you just pick the mainstream ones, you are covered. The chance you lose because the game is rigged is negligible. Also, you are putting money somewhere, you should make some basic checks (it’s enough a 10 second search for the license ID and check your regulator website).
No, it means that it depends on licenses. Different licenses require different things. If you hold the Maltese license, you need to have it, period. Maybe there are licenses that don’t prescribe that particular thing, hence “might be”.
Games have to be random number generators lol. There is nothing to dress up, that’s exactly what playing casino games is like. It’s a RNG where you have the 50%-the margin chance to win. This has nothing to do with scamming, or rigging games, which was your initial argument.
Ok… lol
Absolutely the bookie will know the customers and might apply different limits and different odds. If you are suspected being a part of a syndicate, for example, you will get worse odds. This is not a scam, you see exactly what the odds are, it is not hidden from you. This applies to sportsbook, not casino.
This has nothing to do with casino or scamming. Also, sure betters are generally not blacklisted, they simply get limits applied as anyway to make any kind of money you need high volumes. Again, what does this have to do with rigging games? You can’t “rig” sportsbook, when you bet you see clearly what the odds are and you can compare and choose another provider with better odds.
Wow, very useful dump. Have you read the “rigged games” part?
Note that 7/10 items in that list are simply scams by individuals targeting other individuals and have nothing to do with casinos. The only relevant ones are:
The solution for the first 2 is to use licensed providers. The last one is absolutely true, usually in bigger or established businesses, but has nothing to do with rigging games.
Basically nothing of this info dump from Quora (for what is worth) corroborates your argument…
To be honest, is it so hard to admit that you simply don’t like gambling because it’s taking money from people who don’t know better? I agree with that myself, and it’s a sufficient criticism to dislike casinos. There is no need to make up totally false information to add arguments.
No, mainstream, reputable and licensed casinos will not rig games and steal money from you. Yes, they will take money from you in the majority of cases because games - all of them - are designed to benefit the house. No, they don’t help laundering money because in most cases they will get caught and lose the whole business, it’s very, very, very hard to hide activity when you have multiple regulators plus the usual government agencies look at your reports constantly, and all your transactions are tracked.
That’s why scammers usually just pirate and hack small parts of the codebase.
You don’t get as much money that way. Better to encourage larger deposits and “crash” when large withdrawals are requested.
Not necessarily. Popups and emails exist. Especially interesting if they offer free spins.
The original question was “what is wrong with online casinos”. One answer I gave was scammers, then you pressed me for more.
DUDE. This is the point. You can’t argue that online casinos are fine so long as you ignore all the bad casinos and scammers.
Fuck me. You admit online casinos are unfair then immediately dismiss this as unimportant. Now I suspect I’m arguing against a paid troll.
Sure.
EDIT: I don’t even dignify with an answer “hack small parts of the codebase”. I can clearly see you have absolutely no clue of what you are talking about.
Then this is not a rigged game. Again, you said that games are rigged to scam people…
True, and that’s if the site find you, rather than viceversa. No different than phishing…
Your original answer was specific: rigged games and money laundering. None of which is generally true.
I already clarified what I consider an “online casino”. it’s irrelevant what a scam website is, it doesn’t say anything about the industry it tries to imitate…
Don’t move the goalpost. Some casinos use complicate T&C, this has nothing to do with rigging games.
Again, the fact that your arguments are hairdresser gossip doesn’t make me a paid troll. I know the industry and I can use facts to criticize it, which I do (I left it for a reason). You make stuff up and keep changing your argument…
Rigged games is the only point you want to address, then you fail to do so when given the opportunity.
https://www.legitgamblingsites.com/blog/online-casino-scams-be-aware-of/
Casino Scam Two: Rigged Games This casino gaming scam is fairly simple. They run rigged games which let you win for a while, but ultimately rinse you of every penny. This one doesn’t require 4D chess or deviousness fit for a Bond villain, just good old-fashioned rigged software.
The scam casino software companies which create rigged games are fairly well-known by most people who play regularly online or work in the online betting industry. Respected casinos don’t work with them, and respected casino software companies don’t usually work with casinos that do. That’s an important thing to note, because it is the first step to avoiding rigged games. If you see Microgaming, Playtech, NetEnt, or other powerhouse casino software companies in the mix, it’s highly likely that you’re dealing with a legitimate online casino.
However, scam casino operators have gotten wise to this, and as a result, they run pirated versions of otherwise legit games. They’re much more difficult to spot for the untrained eye, because they are clones of the original games with a tweaked code to cheat you.
Dude, you are changing the argument again, as usual.
I got it. Yes, scam website exist. Yes, scan shop websites exist, as exist phishing banking sites, and a universe of things.
You said:
This is complete bullshit.
Pirating a game only means copying the look of a legitimate game served on “real” casinos. There is nothing to hack, because you don’t have the codebase. Netent, playtech, evolution, microgaming, they all serve their games via iframes or similar, they integrate with you via API, they whitelist your IPs or authenticate yourself with a token. Scam casinos might simply look at real games and imitate them, exactly like you might do a fake shop and copy - say - Amazon’s look.
And for the 100th times, this is a negligible problem if you are playing on licensed websites, which in turn used licensed gaming providers.
You are conflating arguments that apply to scam website as if these apply to the wider industry, they don’t! If you are talking about banking, you wouldn’t say “banks steal your data”, because there are scammers that use bank websites to phish people. They are a completely different thing. So, as clear as it can be:
I can’t be clearer than this.
I linked to an external source showing it is not bullshit.
Your arguments for online casinos not being scams are based solely on excluding scams from your definition of online casinos.
Your source didn’t confirm in any way what you said. Making lookalikes have nothing to do with “hacking small parts of the codebase”.
Also the source itself is a random website lol
My argument is that casinos don’t need to scam by rigging games. A scam site is no more a casino than a phishing site is a banking site. Do you think banking sites are scams?
Your initial statement was a blanket statement about casinos “rigging games” and “helping laundering money for a cut”. Now you are defending the hill that some scammers use casinos as their vector for scams, which is a completely different thing, that nobody questioned also. It simply has nothing to do with " casinos".
But I see you are one of those people who are clinically incapable of admitting you said something incorrect, even after you said tons of incorrect stuff and you showed to have a very superficial understanding of the gambling industry (my favorite was when you called games "dressed up RNGs, when they are required to be RNG by law, and you really want them to be…).
And this opinion is incorrect. I would accept that some online casinos don’t need to scam by rigging games.
Incorrect. I’ve posted multiple examples of online casino scams, including rigging the games.
Some are.
Look at the top of this thread. The question was “Why are online casinos bad”.
No, it’s not. I discussed and explained already to you that there are several reasons:
You instead provided 0 explanation about what you are claiming.
You didn’t post any example. You posted statements that mentioned that some website can spoof casinos with rigged games. Those are not casino websites, they hold no licenses and they are not established businesses. They are not part of an industry, exactly like scam banking website are not part of the financial industry.
False, again. They are not banking sites lol. No bank would phish their users. There are scammers who impersonate banks, exactly like they impersonate casinos. Your whole argument relies on calling scammers that do X part of the X industry. They are not.
And your answer in fact is completely incorrect. Rather than admitting that you have 0 proof or arguments that casinos rig games and enable laundering money, you are now relying purely on a definition of casinos that include the casino scam sites.
I will repeat, your argument is exactly as absurd as the following:
Then, when confronted about this, you would provide https://getcomputeractive.co.uk/protect-your-tech/fake-bank-website-URLs which says:
thinking it is proof. It’s not.
As I said, you clearly have no idea about the industry, you said so many things that show it and then glanced over them to avoid embarrassment, and you ended up moving the goalpost so far, that now your entire stance relies on the fact that scam casino websites are online casinos. The initial question “why are online casinos bad” clearly referred to businesses which…run online casinos. And 100% your initial answer referred to that too, but once you couldn’t support your argument in any way, you retreated purely onto the scam websites that impersonate casinos.
Is it so hard for you to admit that you made a big statement about something you are not fully knowledgeable?