I guess it’s a difference in values, which affects your perspective. You can see it as robbing, or as contributing to society.
I’m trying to word it as neutral as possible, but it’s really hard in the values area. I think both sets of values are valid. I may not agree with yours, but that’s the thing with moral values - if you don’t share the same values, you will never see eye to eye or agree. Hard to be objective in such a situation.
Tl,dr: you value different things, which is not evil or bad, but completely valid. It’s just that I personally with my values don’t agree and see it negatively.
I don’t think that you, me and OP have different values on this issue, actually? We all agree that the state is supposed to provide us with a structure to live in that we couldn’t have on our own, and as payment for this safety net, we contribute taxes. My and OP’s argument is that with the current projection of the economy and population growth, the state cannot provide the current generation of tax payers with the structures and support that we will eventually need, and therefore many of us would rather pay lower taxes and lose the benefits, because we won’t be getting them anyway. We know what’s coming and we don’t want to be the ones “holding the bag” when the system collapses.
I’m trying to explain OP’s point to the Americans in this thread who don’t understand that European social security systems are currently under severe strain and are on the road to collapse, and how OP feels to have to sacrifice so much of his potential income to support a failing system. The 80s stereotypes of reliable, high-quality social security no longer hold true in Europe in 2023.
I think its hard for some americans to understand that welfare in Europe is not an utopia. I personally believe the estate needs to provide help and support to citizens including healthcare and basic education at a minimum. Ideally some basic help for people that are unable to work and whatever is needed for people to not be on the street.
My biggest issue is as it is right now I can see how much money I have been putting over the years and how much extra money I still need to put on top privately to have a quality of life for things such as pension, salary insurance, etc. So while almost half my salary goes out as taxes I still need to contribute on my own to private companies. On top of that I can see people that can take advantage of the system and between the high taxes and all the help you can get (house help, unemployment, lids, etc.) theres people not working that get almost as much as an engineer working full time. I think something is off.
But this has nothing to do with the post of why american companies choose to pay more than european ones.
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I guess it’s a difference in values, which affects your perspective. You can see it as robbing, or as contributing to society.
I’m trying to word it as neutral as possible, but it’s really hard in the values area. I think both sets of values are valid. I may not agree with yours, but that’s the thing with moral values - if you don’t share the same values, you will never see eye to eye or agree. Hard to be objective in such a situation.
Tl,dr: you value different things, which is not evil or bad, but completely valid. It’s just that I personally with my values don’t agree and see it negatively.
I don’t think that you, me and OP have different values on this issue, actually? We all agree that the state is supposed to provide us with a structure to live in that we couldn’t have on our own, and as payment for this safety net, we contribute taxes. My and OP’s argument is that with the current projection of the economy and population growth, the state cannot provide the current generation of tax payers with the structures and support that we will eventually need, and therefore many of us would rather pay lower taxes and lose the benefits, because we won’t be getting them anyway. We know what’s coming and we don’t want to be the ones “holding the bag” when the system collapses.
I’m trying to explain OP’s point to the Americans in this thread who don’t understand that European social security systems are currently under severe strain and are on the road to collapse, and how OP feels to have to sacrifice so much of his potential income to support a failing system. The 80s stereotypes of reliable, high-quality social security no longer hold true in Europe in 2023.
I think its hard for some americans to understand that welfare in Europe is not an utopia. I personally believe the estate needs to provide help and support to citizens including healthcare and basic education at a minimum. Ideally some basic help for people that are unable to work and whatever is needed for people to not be on the street.
My biggest issue is as it is right now I can see how much money I have been putting over the years and how much extra money I still need to put on top privately to have a quality of life for things such as pension, salary insurance, etc. So while almost half my salary goes out as taxes I still need to contribute on my own to private companies. On top of that I can see people that can take advantage of the system and between the high taxes and all the help you can get (house help, unemployment, lids, etc.) theres people not working that get almost as much as an engineer working full time. I think something is off.
But this has nothing to do with the post of why american companies choose to pay more than european ones.