World Central Kitchen is demanding an independent investigation on the strikes.
World Central Kitchen is demanding an independent investigation on the strikes.
Jonathan Duguay, a close friend of Flickinger who was working in Cyprus for World Central Kitchen at the time of the attack, told The Canadian Press in an interview that Flickinger wasn’t afraid because the aid deliveries were co-ordinated with Israel’s assistance.
Article content
“We had an agreement with the IDF,” said Duguay. “There was a special route. They knew where we were.”
Flickinger joined World Central Kitchen last fall to help recover from PTSD developed during his tour in Afghanistan. He and his partner, Sandy Leclerc, had recently moved to Costa Rica with their son, who is 18 months old.
This is the reality of what’s going on, the mainstream outlets aren’t quite able to bring themselves to say it out loud. Any other nation but Israel and the sanctions would be ramping up, but here we are, still wondering if this is the atrocity that means we should stop shipping weapons to them.
This is why aid needs to be delivered by military forces under the direction of aid agencies. Nobody really cares if a few civilians get killed, but when soldiers get killed, shit happens.
I don’t believe Israel was intentionally targeting World Central Kitchen. This whole incident is a massive PR disaster for them, especially given that the victims were citizens of powerful and influential countries doing one of the most selfless humanitarian jobs possible.
Having said that, this is the kind of mistake that only happens when a military’s targeting rules are basically “commit war crimes”. Like, maybe their target was white civilian vans being used as ambulances by the Palestinians, and they just blew up the wrong white civilian vans. The difference is that killing Palestinian doctors and paramedics doesn’t generate the same international headlines.
Just this week I read a story about how Israel is using AI to identify targets to assassinate. At first they were just targeting senior Hamas leaders, but at this stage they have tens of thousands of targets including police and civil defense workers. Technically these are affiliated with Hamas, but only because Hamas is the official government of the Gaza strip.
How do they kill them? It’s hard to target and kill them when they’re out in the field, so the Israelis wait until they return home and then they bomb their houses, killing them and their families: “for every junior Hamas operative that Lavender marked, it was permissible to kill up to 15 or 20 civilians”
What do they call the system that alerts them when the targets return home, and can now be targeted for a bombing? I shit you not, it’s called “Where’s Daddy?”
I also think the main culprit here is the “strategy” of bombing everyone even slightly likely to be a militant even with irresponsibly massive collateral damage. This might be such collateral damage.
Yeah, exactly my point. I don’t think they set out to bomb World Central Kitchen people specifically. But, their targeting is so broad, and they’re so willing to kill civilians that it doesn’t take a very big mistake to accidentally kill WCK people instead of some other group of civilians in white vans.
I don’t think it’s effectively the same thing. One view is that they’re supremely evil and extremely competent. The other view is that they’re slightly less evil and much less competent.
Yup, and hopefully it will be enough that the world starts putting sanctions on Israel. First, obviously, stop giving them military aid. Then even ban them from buying weapons.
You missed the part where they literally coordinated with the IDF on their trip, didn’t you? The only reasons this could happen are intentional or criminal negligence. Given how well this fits with the trends, it’s hard to imagine it was negligence.
You missed the part where they literally coordinated with the IDF on their trip, didn’t you?
No, I didn’t. I just don’t think that means much.
Yes, I’m sure they told the IDF, and that the IDF said “ok, sure”. Then the IDF essentially ignored it. Maybe they entered the information into a database or something, but I doubt it was widely communicated. Maybe you have this image of the IDF as being this ultra-competent, supremely vigilant organization that never kills anybody by accident, so any killing has to be deliberate. I don’t share that view. I think they’re tossing so many bombs and care so little about collateral damage that WCK checking in with the IDF means essentially nothing.
The only reasons this could happen are intentional or criminal negligence.
Never attribute to malice what can adequately be attributed to stupidity.
Given how well this fits with the trends, it’s hard to imagine it was negligence.
Given how well it fits with the trends, it’s hard to imagine it’s anything but negligence. When the IDF is leveling Gaza, killing indiscriminately, targeting civilians with only a very slight tie to Hamas, it’s no surprise if they kill some aid workers too.
The story I linked shows that they are targeting so many people that they spend only 20s verifying that the target Lavender came up with is a valid target before ordering a bomb strike. In that situation, it’s completely unsurprising if they accidentally kill a convoy of international aid workers instead of a convoy of Palestinians.
Your theory is what, Israel is targeting every one of the 29,000 bombs they’ve dropped very precisely, with a whole lot of planning and thought, and that each one of them is a deliberate and careful target, and there are never screw-ups in any of those 29,000 bomb strikes? Given that this is a PR disaster for them, isn’t it easier to assume it was a mistake caused by their unwillingness to thoroughly and carefully check every possible target to make sure that they never make a mistake?
You are not logged in. However you can subscribe from another Fediverse account, for example Lemmy or Mastodon. To do this, paste the following into the search field of your instance: !canada@lemmy.ca
Fuck Israel.
It’s right in line with Israeli strategy.
You can’t starve out the people who live there if relief organizations are succeeding in feeding the victims.
This resulted in World Central Kitchen to turn their ships around and stop feeding the starving people. Just as intended.
This is the reality of what’s going on, the mainstream outlets aren’t quite able to bring themselves to say it out loud. Any other nation but Israel and the sanctions would be ramping up, but here we are, still wondering if this is the atrocity that means we should stop shipping weapons to them.
They’ve murdered over 200 journalists for similar reasons.
It’s like we are living through the holocaust but with real time updates.
It’s so horrific that they continue to get away with it. Their goal is annihilation.
This is why aid needs to be delivered by military forces under the direction of aid agencies. Nobody really cares if a few civilians get killed, but when soldiers get killed, shit happens.
Time for Parliament to support an embargo on weapons, arms and other resources that allow Israel to continue carrynng out this genocidal colonialism.
Didn’t the Canadian government already say (a few weeks ago) that it was suspending military shipments to the IDF?
https://www.defensenews.com/global/the-americas/2024/03/26/canadas-ban-on-israeli-arms-sales-baffles-industry/
New sales permits are not being issued as a result of this suspension but existing sales are being allowed to proceed.
I don’t believe Israel was intentionally targeting World Central Kitchen. This whole incident is a massive PR disaster for them, especially given that the victims were citizens of powerful and influential countries doing one of the most selfless humanitarian jobs possible.
Having said that, this is the kind of mistake that only happens when a military’s targeting rules are basically “commit war crimes”. Like, maybe their target was white civilian vans being used as ambulances by the Palestinians, and they just blew up the wrong white civilian vans. The difference is that killing Palestinian doctors and paramedics doesn’t generate the same international headlines.
Just this week I read a story about how Israel is using AI to identify targets to assassinate. At first they were just targeting senior Hamas leaders, but at this stage they have tens of thousands of targets including police and civil defense workers. Technically these are affiliated with Hamas, but only because Hamas is the official government of the Gaza strip.
How do they kill them? It’s hard to target and kill them when they’re out in the field, so the Israelis wait until they return home and then they bomb their houses, killing them and their families: “for every junior Hamas operative that Lavender marked, it was permissible to kill up to 15 or 20 civilians”
What do they call the system that alerts them when the targets return home, and can now be targeted for a bombing? I shit you not, it’s called “Where’s Daddy?”
I also think the main culprit here is the “strategy” of bombing everyone even slightly likely to be a militant even with irresponsibly massive collateral damage. This might be such collateral damage.
Yeah, exactly my point. I don’t think they set out to bomb World Central Kitchen people specifically. But, their targeting is so broad, and they’re so willing to kill civilians that it doesn’t take a very big mistake to accidentally kill WCK people instead of some other group of civilians in white vans.
At the very least they didn’t set out to not bomb World Central Kitchen people specifically. Which effectively is the same thing.
I don’t think it’s effectively the same thing. One view is that they’re supremely evil and extremely competent. The other view is that they’re slightly less evil and much less competent.
Either way we’re left with the same awful, evil, result.
Yup, and hopefully it will be enough that the world starts putting sanctions on Israel. First, obviously, stop giving them military aid. Then even ban them from buying weapons.
You missed the part where they literally coordinated with the IDF on their trip, didn’t you? The only reasons this could happen are intentional or criminal negligence. Given how well this fits with the trends, it’s hard to imagine it was negligence.
No, I didn’t. I just don’t think that means much.
Yes, I’m sure they told the IDF, and that the IDF said “ok, sure”. Then the IDF essentially ignored it. Maybe they entered the information into a database or something, but I doubt it was widely communicated. Maybe you have this image of the IDF as being this ultra-competent, supremely vigilant organization that never kills anybody by accident, so any killing has to be deliberate. I don’t share that view. I think they’re tossing so many bombs and care so little about collateral damage that WCK checking in with the IDF means essentially nothing.
Never attribute to malice what can adequately be attributed to stupidity.
Given how well it fits with the trends, it’s hard to imagine it’s anything but negligence. When the IDF is leveling Gaza, killing indiscriminately, targeting civilians with only a very slight tie to Hamas, it’s no surprise if they kill some aid workers too.
The story I linked shows that they are targeting so many people that they spend only 20s verifying that the target Lavender came up with is a valid target before ordering a bomb strike. In that situation, it’s completely unsurprising if they accidentally kill a convoy of international aid workers instead of a convoy of Palestinians.
Your theory is what, Israel is targeting every one of the 29,000 bombs they’ve dropped very precisely, with a whole lot of planning and thought, and that each one of them is a deliberate and careful target, and there are never screw-ups in any of those 29,000 bomb strikes? Given that this is a PR disaster for them, isn’t it easier to assume it was a mistake caused by their unwillingness to thoroughly and carefully check every possible target to make sure that they never make a mistake?
So, criminally negligent.
Sure, if you want to phrase it that way. IMO it’s much worse than that.
“I don’t’ like what you are doing, but I will not punish you” - paraphrase Trudeau