this appears to be the first time anything like this has happened or been tried; unsurprisingly, students have been mobilizing against it and it’s been condemned by dozens of student groups. it’s also probably union busting, as Taal is a member of the Cornell Graduate Student Union and they have a memorandum with Cornell that any suspensions like this have to be mediated with the union–which of course was not done here.
I’m not surprised Cornell is taking this stance and employing this hasty methodology. They have a reputation for being a major business that benefits from massive money flow. It stands to reason that they care more about money than supporting students… Unless they have lots of money.
Seems like his heart is in the right place, but his brain isn’t.
In other words (and please excuse my French): Don’t shit where you eat. Given his past history as an activist on campus and the reprimands he has received for this, it was extremely risky of him to attend this kind of highly disruptive protest. In the end, he’s merely a guest, at both the university and in the US. It would have been much wiser of him to support his cause elsewhere instead of at and against the institution that he relies on for his degree and visa.
The fact that he’s relatively well-known locally as an activist might actually harm his prospects: While he can briefly leverage this to mobilize his supporters (which appear to be mainly students and relatively few sympathetic academics, which isn’t ideal), this will only further antagonize the administration that seems to be hell-bent on getting rid of a trouble-maker, while at the same time discouraging others, no matter their cause, to protest in the same manner or perhaps even violently, like at other self-proclaimed pro-Palestinian protests at American universities. From a purely Machiavellian perspective - and I do not support this, despite the fact that I disagree with the student, his methods and his cause - Cornell would likely gain more from muffling him and by extension others than by allowing him to continue for at least two more years.
Even if he somehow manages to survive this, it would likely only be temporary: Given his past and present behavior, he would feel emboldened, which in turn would result in him doing something similar or worse again soon, which in turn would finally exhaust any remaining goodwill he’s enjoying with the administration.
It would have been much wiser of him to support his cause elsewhere instead of at and against the institution that he relies on for his degree and visa.
personally i think people should be allowed to exercise basic freedom of speech (especially for unambiguously morally correct causes) without being violently deported over it, but you have what i would consider consistently bad takes on this subject so i’m not surprised you’ve taken another bad line here.
I know you don’t like me and my opinions on this topic, but here’s the thing: I support this student’s right to express his opinion, despite the fact that I disagree with him. In an ideal world, he should be able to freely exercise his freedom of speech whenever and wherever he so chooses, but this world clearly isn’t close to ideal. Once again, I’m not supporting what the university his trying to do to him, I’m merely stating that he’s not smart about his activism, because like many other idealists, he fails to realize that he can only make this world the way he wants to a relatively limited degree at once. I don’t think he’s picking his battles all that wisely.
especially for unambiguously morally correct causes
Here’s where we disagree, but you are a moderator who unironically likes to do what this university is doing without even a hint of self-awareness, by temporarily banning me from one of your other communities, because I was a bit too disruptive for your taste on this highly political and contentious topic, one that very much isn’t as unambiguous as you’re trying to portray it as or have been led to believe through your little filter bubble (at least according to my little filter bubble - opinions, opinions, opinions). Like I said in my annoying message to you, I’m just as guest here though, just like this student is at Cornell, so we are both at the mercy of those in charge. The main difference is that my career doesn’t depend on you, of course. The other is that the appeal process here is even worse than Cornell’s… ;)
i’m very uninterested in relitigating your temporary silencing for getting into aimless slapfights with people on here on this subject. don’t bother bringing it up again. strictly speaking the silencing should probably also apply to this thread and just result in me deleting your comments without even responding to them like i am now–but i’m being generous in not doing that here and just calling them a cringe opinion you have the right to express. please do not make me regret that and start enforcing your temporary silencing elsewhere too.
one that very much isn’t as unambiguous as you’re trying to portray it as or have been led to believe through your little filter bubble (at least according to my little filter bubble - opinions, opinions, opinions).
no, it’s pretty unambiguous both internationally (where Israel has been rebuked time and time again for its apartheid system and systemic discrimination and abuse against Palestinians) and morally (Israel’s current conduct toward people in the West Bank in Gaza is almost one-to-one analogous to Jim Crow and apartheid, even ignoring Zionism and its contribution to the subject)–most people just don’t care that much about a foreign conflict that doesn’t affect them and a foreign ethnic group they can’t directly do much to alleviate the plight of.
fundamentally, though, this is an “i can see discrimination with my own eyes, and settlers from Israel will literally admit to doing the discrimination in casual interviews” and an “i don’t think 40,000 Palestinians[1] are all Hamas militants who should be annihilated with indiscriminate bombing that has leveled the vast majority of Gaza’s already crippled infrastructure, i think that is very obviously morally wrong” thing.
or many more. some of the more extreme estimates now have the death toll potentially as high as 300,000 ↩︎
“If you want to test a man’s character, give him power.” - (not) Abraham Lincoln
Pretentious quote out of the way, I’m both disappointed and not disappointed. Exactly the answer I was expecting from you, especially this:
but i’m being generous […] please do not make me regret
I know, it’s a serious and in many ways sad topic, but there is some unintentional humor to be found in a queen of her little domain playing the merciful ruler, because otherwise, the comparison I made between you and Cornell’s leadership would have become impossible to ignore. If you’re feeling that announced regret while reading this tame banter, then I apologize - but I would loved to have seen you in some of the larger forums I’ve moderated in the past - and they weren’t even about politics. The users there would have eaten you alive on the first day.
The sad thing is, our opinions on the West Bank aren’t even that far apart (relative to each of our views on Gaza and Lebanon at least). We could have talked about this like human beings, but I get the distinct feeling that you’re more interested in uncompromising grandstanding and cleaning your little domain of anyone who isn’t covering their face with a keffiyeh than anything resembling nuance or civilized discourse. It’s either 100% your way or no way, which is a problem I’ve noticed with many self-proclaimed pro-Palestinians and much of the movement as a whole. The funny thing is that this isn’t even close the main reason why this movement is so ineffective. No amount of conviction and catchy slogans, no campus protests and sit-ins can overcome the maddening complexity of a conflict that has been stumping minds far smarter than that of anyone on this forum for many decades.
If you’re feeling that announced regret while reading this tame banter, then I apologize - but I would loved to have seen you in some of the larger forums I’ve moderated in the past - and they weren’t even about politics. The users there would have eaten you alive on the first day.
i’m… sorry that we generally like to treat our userbase as adults capable of basic introspection when they do something wrong or sanctionable, instead of immediately telling them to fuck off? but again this is way besides the point–which is, don’t relitigate this, and stop going into every thread even remotely adjacent to Israel/Palestine and causing problems. your opinions are simply not important enough (or, in my opinion, well reasoned enough) to hear them out for an additional ten months beyond the ten months you’ve already been an issue.
you have what i would consider consistently bad takes on this subject
Ah, just saw a comment from OP claiming that Israel was doing “everything possible” to prevent civilian casualties, so yeah, bad take puts it pretty well. What bad faith bs
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It’s shocking how terrified all these universities are of even the slightest criticism of Israel and its genocide.
this appears to be the first time anything like this has happened or been tried; unsurprisingly, students have been mobilizing against it and it’s been condemned by dozens of student groups. it’s also probably union busting, as Taal is a member of the Cornell Graduate Student Union and they have a memorandum with Cornell that any suspensions like this have to be mediated with the union–which of course was not done here.
I’m not surprised Cornell is taking this stance and employing this hasty methodology. They have a reputation for being a major business that benefits from massive money flow. It stands to reason that they care more about money than supporting students… Unless they have lots of money.
Much better article: https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-features/cornell-protest-palestine-immigration-1235112444/
Seems like his heart is in the right place, but his brain isn’t.
In other words (and please excuse my French): Don’t shit where you eat. Given his past history as an activist on campus and the reprimands he has received for this, it was extremely risky of him to attend this kind of highly disruptive protest. In the end, he’s merely a guest, at both the university and in the US. It would have been much wiser of him to support his cause elsewhere instead of at and against the institution that he relies on for his degree and visa.
The fact that he’s relatively well-known locally as an activist might actually harm his prospects: While he can briefly leverage this to mobilize his supporters (which appear to be mainly students and relatively few sympathetic academics, which isn’t ideal), this will only further antagonize the administration that seems to be hell-bent on getting rid of a trouble-maker, while at the same time discouraging others, no matter their cause, to protest in the same manner or perhaps even violently, like at other self-proclaimed pro-Palestinian protests at American universities. From a purely Machiavellian perspective - and I do not support this, despite the fact that I disagree with the student, his methods and his cause - Cornell would likely gain more from muffling him and by extension others than by allowing him to continue for at least two more years.
Even if he somehow manages to survive this, it would likely only be temporary: Given his past and present behavior, he would feel emboldened, which in turn would result in him doing something similar or worse again soon, which in turn would finally exhaust any remaining goodwill he’s enjoying with the administration.
personally i think people should be allowed to exercise basic freedom of speech (especially for unambiguously morally correct causes) without being violently deported over it, but you have what i would consider consistently bad takes on this subject so i’m not surprised you’ve taken another bad line here.
I know you don’t like me and my opinions on this topic, but here’s the thing: I support this student’s right to express his opinion, despite the fact that I disagree with him. In an ideal world, he should be able to freely exercise his freedom of speech whenever and wherever he so chooses, but this world clearly isn’t close to ideal. Once again, I’m not supporting what the university his trying to do to him, I’m merely stating that he’s not smart about his activism, because like many other idealists, he fails to realize that he can only make this world the way he wants to a relatively limited degree at once. I don’t think he’s picking his battles all that wisely.
Here’s where we disagree, but you are a moderator who unironically likes to do what this university is doing without even a hint of self-awareness, by temporarily banning me from one of your other communities, because I was a bit too disruptive for your taste on this highly political and contentious topic, one that very much isn’t as unambiguous as you’re trying to portray it as or have been led to believe through your little filter bubble (at least according to my little filter bubble - opinions, opinions, opinions). Like I said in my annoying message to you, I’m just as guest here though, just like this student is at Cornell, so we are both at the mercy of those in charge. The main difference is that my career doesn’t depend on you, of course. The other is that the appeal process here is even worse than Cornell’s… ;)
i’m very uninterested in relitigating your temporary silencing for getting into aimless slapfights with people on here on this subject. don’t bother bringing it up again. strictly speaking the silencing should probably also apply to this thread and just result in me deleting your comments without even responding to them like i am now–but i’m being generous in not doing that here and just calling them a cringe opinion you have the right to express. please do not make me regret that and start enforcing your temporary silencing elsewhere too.
no, it’s pretty unambiguous both internationally (where Israel has been rebuked time and time again for its apartheid system and systemic discrimination and abuse against Palestinians) and morally (Israel’s current conduct toward people in the West Bank in Gaza is almost one-to-one analogous to Jim Crow and apartheid, even ignoring Zionism and its contribution to the subject)–most people just don’t care that much about a foreign conflict that doesn’t affect them and a foreign ethnic group they can’t directly do much to alleviate the plight of.
fundamentally, though, this is an “i can see discrimination with my own eyes, and settlers from Israel will literally admit to doing the discrimination in casual interviews” and an “i don’t think 40,000 Palestinians[1] are all Hamas militants who should be annihilated with indiscriminate bombing that has leveled the vast majority of Gaza’s already crippled infrastructure, i think that is very obviously morally wrong” thing.
or many more. some of the more extreme estimates now have the death toll potentially as high as 300,000 ↩︎
“If you want to test a man’s character, give him power.” - (not) Abraham Lincoln
Pretentious quote out of the way, I’m both disappointed and not disappointed. Exactly the answer I was expecting from you, especially this:
I know, it’s a serious and in many ways sad topic, but there is some unintentional humor to be found in a queen of her little domain playing the merciful ruler, because otherwise, the comparison I made between you and Cornell’s leadership would have become impossible to ignore. If you’re feeling that announced regret while reading this tame banter, then I apologize - but I would loved to have seen you in some of the larger forums I’ve moderated in the past - and they weren’t even about politics. The users there would have eaten you alive on the first day.
The sad thing is, our opinions on the West Bank aren’t even that far apart (relative to each of our views on Gaza and Lebanon at least). We could have talked about this like human beings, but I get the distinct feeling that you’re more interested in uncompromising grandstanding and cleaning your little domain of anyone who isn’t covering their face with a keffiyeh than anything resembling nuance or civilized discourse. It’s either 100% your way or no way, which is a problem I’ve noticed with many self-proclaimed pro-Palestinians and much of the movement as a whole. The funny thing is that this isn’t even close the main reason why this movement is so ineffective. No amount of conviction and catchy slogans, no campus protests and sit-ins can overcome the maddening complexity of a conflict that has been stumping minds far smarter than that of anyone on this forum for many decades.
i’m… sorry that we generally like to treat our userbase as adults capable of basic introspection when they do something wrong or sanctionable, instead of immediately telling them to fuck off? but again this is way besides the point–which is, don’t relitigate this, and stop going into every thread even remotely adjacent to Israel/Palestine and causing problems. your opinions are simply not important enough (or, in my opinion, well reasoned enough) to hear them out for an additional ten months beyond the ten months you’ve already been an issue.
removed by mod
Ah, just saw a comment from OP claiming that Israel was doing “everything possible” to prevent civilian casualties, so yeah, bad take puts it pretty well. What bad faith bs