Half of Canadians are already living paycheck to paycheck, and they are expected to have at least $2 million in the bank in order to not die homeless and hungry when they “retire”?
How grim does our future need to look before society slaps itself in the face and demands to have better wealth distribution?
At this point in my life … I’ve made some money, I own some property and I have not debt … I make enough to survive but I don’t think I’ll be comfortable when I get older and judging from the looks of how society and our civilization is headed, I don’t think I’ll be very comfortable as I get older, not unless I can find a few million dollars right now. So I’m just planning on enjoying what I can for as long as possible on my own without going to a home or getting hospitalized … then just sell off everything and survive as long as I can with a bit of help from others. Than if things go even further downhill from there and I can’t take care of myself any more and I’m still in my right mind, I’d rather end it sooner on my own terms rather than make it last longer than I have to.
I’m not banking or hoping for any help down the road, especially as we get older and none of us should.
This article presented no analysis or insight whatsoever. It just is a few paragraphs presenting raw results of survey data and a pull quote from a finance guy essentially saying “YMMV.”
It would be helpful for people to have something about retirement expense rates, lifestyles at different income levels, the burn down rates of people retiring today and projected future costs, and so on.
I mean, I’m American, so it wouldn’t apply directly to me anyway, but it’s something I think about more and more as I get closer. I’d retire today, if I could. I do have a fair amount of savings, and if I was willing to retire someplace inexpensive I might be able to pull it off today, or in a couple more years at most. So I’ve been doing my own research there (including looking at golden visa programs in case US politics continues on its current path), but I like to hear how others are thinking about it as well.
I’ve heard 4% rule, but for myself I use an investment firm that does monte carlo projections, with ages, spending rates, and current assets to give you a rough idea of likelihood of assets lasting till death.
There’s another type of citogenesis going on with articles and internet comments. Writers look to social media to see what people are talking about / what will get engagement. Internet commenters talk about the article taking the points that strike a chord. Writers see what the users are talking about and write about that. Internet comments react. Writers see the comments and publish accordingly. Rinse. Repeat.
Some iterations later people have piles of articles to point to as proof. The articles have been repeating back their own words written by someone else with ostensible credibility because it’s been published.
A major problem aside from that itself is internet comments need to boil everything down to simple one liner takes. The world isn’t simple like that. People could do long form investigative journalism. And then the internet comments would boil it down to a single easily digestible take that washes away all analysis.
Agreed. The headline is extremely misleading clickbait.
This piece is reporting on what people think they need, not what they actually need (which is highly context dependent), which by itself isn’t very interesting.
The real story is the huge divergence between what people say they need vs what they’re actually targeting, but that’s not news, we’ve known about it for decades (basically every since the defined benefit pension plan ended).
The headline is extremely misleading clickbait. This piece is reporting on what people think they need, not what they actually need
The title says “Canadians expect they need $1.7M to retire”. The title says exactly what the article says, and incorrectly claiming it to be misleading diminishes the conversation here.
And the first paragraph of the article uses the word “believe”, which has a much softer connotation.
The subject line strongly implies that Canadians did the math and “expect” to need $1.7M for retirement.
When you look at the actual article, it’s simply an opinion survey reporting what people said, answers for which could be the result of anything from a rigorous financial plan all the way to a finger in the air guess.
So the headline implies a great deal more certainty in the quoted figures than is actually indicated in the article or supportable by the data.
In short: no, I stand by my claim the article headline is absolutely misleading.
I feel like you’re taking a very specific interpretation of the word “expect”. I don’t believe most people would interpret “expect” as being the outcome of crunching the numbers, so I still disagree that the headline is misleading. Still, I appreciate your explanation of your thinking.
Can I join your club?
I’m in my 50s. I have worked since I was 14 years old… full time since I was 17. I worked most of my adult life outside of Canada, so I do have some state pension saved up outside of Canada, but it’s nowhere near enough to live on in Canada. I moved back to Canada a few years ago with a “seemed like a good idea at the time” decision. In total, I have worked less than 10 years of my life in Canada… so my CPP is basically zero. I look at what Canada has to offer me and think… what the hell am I doing here? It’s fucking expensive to live here… I have nothing to retire on… and only homelessness ad starvation to look forward to.
So… while I’m still employable, fit, and healthy, I’m planning on getting back out… this year actually if all goes to plan.
Well… to be fair, I lived a good life from my mid-20s to my mid-40s. I traveled the world. I have worked in various parts of North America, Europe, Asia, and Africa. I’ve done a solo motorcycle trip from Nairobi to Cape Town… just as one example. The problem is… while I had money during these years, I didn’t save much. What I did save was used up in the in-between-jobs times after I was laid off… and this happened more than once over the years. Before I got married, I had a plan to retire at 50, and I was actually well on my way to achieving it. Then life happened… and kids arrived… and money disappeared faster than it came in.
Now that retirement is closer… and I’m thinking about it, the reality of it not happening. I look at the stupidly broken medical system in Canada… and think “shit, I’m screwed”. I can’t see a doctor for example… just to do some preventative body maintenance and checkups. The local walk-in medical clinics are overwhelmed. I have a family doctor, but she’s retiring this year… and she’s currently booking in-person appointments 3 to 4 months out and every day the gap for appointment availability gets bigger. The only other option is the ER… and if you show up at the ER saying “I am almost 55, I need a physical just to check on things” they show you the door and say “come back when you’re sick”. I’m literally booking a flight to Europe to go see a doctor for a checkup.
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Half of Canadians are already living paycheck to paycheck, and they are expected to have at least $2 million in the bank in order to not die homeless and hungry when they “retire”?
How grim does our future need to look before society slaps itself in the face and demands to have better wealth distribution?
Nothing is going to change until the wealthy fear for their bank accounts and/or their lives.
Want things to the change? Make the Rich Afraid Again.
Eating the rich is sustainable and good for the environment.
At this point in my life … I’ve made some money, I own some property and I have not debt … I make enough to survive but I don’t think I’ll be comfortable when I get older and judging from the looks of how society and our civilization is headed, I don’t think I’ll be very comfortable as I get older, not unless I can find a few million dollars right now. So I’m just planning on enjoying what I can for as long as possible on my own without going to a home or getting hospitalized … then just sell off everything and survive as long as I can with a bit of help from others. Than if things go even further downhill from there and I can’t take care of myself any more and I’m still in my right mind, I’d rather end it sooner on my own terms rather than make it last longer than I have to.
I’m not banking or hoping for any help down the road, especially as we get older and none of us should.
This article presented no analysis or insight whatsoever. It just is a few paragraphs presenting raw results of survey data and a pull quote from a finance guy essentially saying “YMMV.”
It would be helpful for people to have something about retirement expense rates, lifestyles at different income levels, the burn down rates of people retiring today and projected future costs, and so on.
I mean, I’m American, so it wouldn’t apply directly to me anyway, but it’s something I think about more and more as I get closer. I’d retire today, if I could. I do have a fair amount of savings, and if I was willing to retire someplace inexpensive I might be able to pull it off today, or in a couple more years at most. So I’ve been doing my own research there (including looking at golden visa programs in case US politics continues on its current path), but I like to hear how others are thinking about it as well.
I’ve heard 4% rule, but for myself I use an investment firm that does monte carlo projections, with ages, spending rates, and current assets to give you a rough idea of likelihood of assets lasting till death.
Ive also played with a few of the retirement calculators made by the FIRE crowd i.e. https://www.schwab.com/learn/story/beyond-4-rule-how-much-can-you-spend-retirement
There’s another type of citogenesis going on with articles and internet comments. Writers look to social media to see what people are talking about / what will get engagement. Internet commenters talk about the article taking the points that strike a chord. Writers see what the users are talking about and write about that. Internet comments react. Writers see the comments and publish accordingly. Rinse. Repeat.
Some iterations later people have piles of articles to point to as proof. The articles have been repeating back their own words written by someone else with ostensible credibility because it’s been published.
A major problem aside from that itself is internet comments need to boil everything down to simple one liner takes. The world isn’t simple like that. People could do long form investigative journalism. And then the internet comments would boil it down to a single easily digestible take that washes away all analysis.
Agreed. The headline is extremely misleading clickbait.
This piece is reporting on what people think they need, not what they actually need (which is highly context dependent), which by itself isn’t very interesting.
The real story is the huge divergence between what people say they need vs what they’re actually targeting, but that’s not news, we’ve known about it for decades (basically every since the defined benefit pension plan ended).
The title says “Canadians expect they need $1.7M to retire”. The title says exactly what the article says, and incorrectly claiming it to be misleading diminishes the conversation here.
And the first paragraph of the article uses the word “believe”, which has a much softer connotation.
The subject line strongly implies that Canadians did the math and “expect” to need $1.7M for retirement.
When you look at the actual article, it’s simply an opinion survey reporting what people said, answers for which could be the result of anything from a rigorous financial plan all the way to a finger in the air guess.
So the headline implies a great deal more certainty in the quoted figures than is actually indicated in the article or supportable by the data.
In short: no, I stand by my claim the article headline is absolutely misleading.
I feel like you’re taking a very specific interpretation of the word “expect”. I don’t believe most people would interpret “expect” as being the outcome of crunching the numbers, so I still disagree that the headline is misleading. Still, I appreciate your explanation of your thinking.
As a man in his 50s it’s become painfully obvious that I’m never retiring.
Can I join your club? I’m in my 50s. I have worked since I was 14 years old… full time since I was 17. I worked most of my adult life outside of Canada, so I do have some state pension saved up outside of Canada, but it’s nowhere near enough to live on in Canada. I moved back to Canada a few years ago with a “seemed like a good idea at the time” decision. In total, I have worked less than 10 years of my life in Canada… so my CPP is basically zero. I look at what Canada has to offer me and think… what the hell am I doing here? It’s fucking expensive to live here… I have nothing to retire on… and only homelessness ad starvation to look forward to.
So… while I’m still employable, fit, and healthy, I’m planning on getting back out… this year actually if all goes to plan.
Ideally, you’re supposed to retire while you’re still fit and healthy so you can actually enjoy your retirement.
Otherwise, it’s basically just an extended sick leave until you die.
Well… to be fair, I lived a good life from my mid-20s to my mid-40s. I traveled the world. I have worked in various parts of North America, Europe, Asia, and Africa. I’ve done a solo motorcycle trip from Nairobi to Cape Town… just as one example. The problem is… while I had money during these years, I didn’t save much. What I did save was used up in the in-between-jobs times after I was laid off… and this happened more than once over the years. Before I got married, I had a plan to retire at 50, and I was actually well on my way to achieving it. Then life happened… and kids arrived… and money disappeared faster than it came in.
Now that retirement is closer… and I’m thinking about it, the reality of it not happening. I look at the stupidly broken medical system in Canada… and think “shit, I’m screwed”. I can’t see a doctor for example… just to do some preventative body maintenance and checkups. The local walk-in medical clinics are overwhelmed. I have a family doctor, but she’s retiring this year… and she’s currently booking in-person appointments 3 to 4 months out and every day the gap for appointment availability gets bigger. The only other option is the ER… and if you show up at the ER saying “I am almost 55, I need a physical just to check on things” they show you the door and say “come back when you’re sick”. I’m literally booking a flight to Europe to go see a doctor for a checkup.
So yeah… wheeee…