Nvidia GPUs require a custom kernel module. If you expect the average user to care that much about their computer, you are silly.

You are doing modifications that are meant for experienced users when youbson’t know what you are getting into

I know exactly what modification I’ve done and why. In fact, lots of distros ship with these modules then don’t update them properly. Despite that I’ve solved this issue many times. It’s just a time-consuming task that I don’t want to do. I have other hobbies.

Kindly I propose stopping this stupid discussion because you only half know what you are talking about.

You know nothing of what you talk about. You are extremely biased as you’ve pointed out in your other comments and proud of it. No one is saying people shouldn’t use Linux, people here are saying they don’t want a chore for an OS.

Also, your attitude is the biggest reason Linux isn’t a popular desktop OS. The Linux community keeps mass adoption away with this sort of attitude. I recommend stopping this conversation at the risk of truly exposing yourself as the angry troglodyte you are.

It’s in the video provided in the article. It’s pretty complex and lengthy. You have to put in like 3 cheat code menu entries, then go to a level select option and hold down l1 and x, then the disk will stop, oh you had to keep your disc eject propped down so the console won’t detect the tray has been opened, switch out the disc, hold like triangle and x, let go of l1, triangle and x all at the same time, then it will boot into whatever pirated disc you switched out without the checks.

I can see why it’s not in the article, it’s hard to accurately write down and it would be almost as long as the article itself. That said, I don’t know how much of a godsend this is, it requires a copy of a pretty undersold and otherwise mediocre game. That said, I am not that into retro gaming so maybe this is truly a major change for the community.

Sure, it was a bit hyperbole but I’ve certainly seen that exact thing on Arch/Manjaro, one of the more popular distros. I’ve also seen a handful of updates on Fedora and Ubuntu just fully brick the system. My whole point with that was that Windows checks its updates against far more configurations than a single Linux distro ever could. One of the most common things I’ve seen Linux do on multiple distros is update the Linux kernel without waiting for all my installed kernel modules to be updated to work with that version. In a lot of cases, this has left my computer unbootable until I rescued it either changing grub or using another live CD.

I’ll check again but I believe as I was testing out Linux distros to put on my kid’s laptop just 2 weeks ago, I tested PopOS and it somehow failed. I think it failed to boot entirely because some service not launching. I’d need to double-check that though. Overall I had about 6 distros to go through and moved on. I’ve stayed away from Nobara because it doesn’t seem like a well-trodden path.

I’ve looked at jumping back into FreeBSD or perhaps going to Gentoo but frankly, that’s more if I was going to turn my whole computer into a hobby project and I have other hobbies I want to use my computer for.

You’ve missed my points entirely, the only thing I can suggest is reread what I wrote.

things that are marked as working do work, sounds like user error

That’s the exact sort of bullshit community pushback I am talking about. That shit right there is why Linux is being held back. Frankly, if your OS could be held wrong by someone who writes in C++ and has 8 years experience using your OS, then your OS is fundamentally flawed.

they’re viable

For some specific workflows, sure. If you only need a browser or have locked down hardware like Android/ChromeOS/SteamOS SURE! If you want to use a computer like a productive device you can do anything on, likely not going to work with Linux. You can believe all you want that the only reason Linux doesn’t have a larger foothold in gaming is Windows comes pre-installed but the truth is that Linux usage dropped from in 2014 compared to 2020. Linux in 2014 was 1.1% and in 2020 it was .91. The major rise recently of Linux on Steam was because of the steam decks. So yes, Linux is great when everything is locked down and a large company with direction is supporting it. Otherwise, on desktop, it’s not for most people.

So really a moot point, isn’t it?

With a 1080 it hard locks on start up. With a 3080, same results, with my 1660, same results. Tested with Fedora 38.

It is so obivious that you have never used linux… or you have only tried vanilla arch or something

I’ve used it since about 2007. I’ve used Ubuntu, Fedora, Linux Mint, Manjaro, and Arch, Was a FreeBSD porter for a few years, and have a lot of experience releasing games for Linux, Mac, and consoles. It’s clear you have no clue about me and are mindlessly defending an OS you are overly obsessed with. Don’t worry, I was there a few years ago. There is help out there.

minecraft works without problems on linux

Bedrock edition.

libre office, only office and hell even google docs on linux

Sure a bunch of software suites that have their own problems or google docs which to say “even it runs on Linux” is extremely silly. Anything that runs chrome runs google docs.

fortnite is one of the few games that don’t work on linux

Most games don’t run on Linux, and even with Proton, a lot of games do not work well. A few of them are Castle Crashers, Never Alone, A Hat In Time, and a lot of older Unity games. They are all marked as “working” but in practice, they don’t.

I did not think about it because this whole conversation is useless to me.

Good! States need to follow suit.

“There’s never been a better time to be playing video games”

To me, it reads as both. It tries to control it but regardless it flips upside down and no one moves in the same direction.

I’m not blaming any Linux users for that. I’m saying this is the trade-offs of Linux and they are unacceptable to most people.

Yeah, basically. Which raises a question: how companies with much smaller market share can justify providing support, but Nvidia, a company that dominates the GPU market, can’t?

I feel like it’s the opposite as Nvidia provides a lot of Linux support by providing an open source kernel module (https://github.com/NVIDIA/open-gpu-kernel-modules) while AMD gets proprietary blobs into the Linux kernel ( https://trisquel.info/en/wiki/configure-2d-and-3d-graphics-acceleration). How come Linux is supporting AMD more than Nvidia currently?

My point is every large piece of tech is flawed and you have to find what you can work with. My original comment (not post, btw) isn’t bullshit and if you want to insult people, go to a different instance. This is beehaw, Be nice. I’m not going to carry on a conversation with you calling names and acting clearly in bad faith. If you don’t like my opinion, don’t engage but I am able to have a my reasonable opinion about software.

Elon Musk should get directly sued from the State of California for active sabotage of it’s public infrastructure.

I used to use XFCE religiously and since I’ve been popping my head back into Linux after moving to Windows, I have noticed I’ve been on Gnome and KDE far more. my XFCE days felt far more stable. That said, I don’t think the DE is solely to blame.

If the installer is that easily scared off then it doesn’t deserve to be an installer. I treat the Windows installer far worse.

I used Linux as a daily driver for 5 years and was a FreeBSD porter for 2 years after that. I’ve been using Linux every year to pop in and see the issues and their current state. In this year alone, I’ve seen issues with Fedora, Linux Mint, and Manjaro. Hell, even right now the Fedora Live installer won’t launch on my desktop. It hard freezes before it can even get the installer up.

I think the disconnect here is that others are saying “they aren’t supporting us,” and your response is pretty much “lol, abandon what you’re doing and go back to the corporations.”

My point is that Linux does nothing to make it easy to support. Nvidia even has made an open source kernel driver. https://github.com/NVIDIA/open-gpu-kernel-modules Nvidia is doing a lot of work to support Linux and people don’t seem to see it.

Also “it works on windows” is a terrible rebuttal in a discussion where you first say “it works fine on x11”

A question to configure Nvidia Optimus is also a terrible rebuttal in the first place. Optimus is blocked because Linux kernel doesn’t want proprietary blobs. AMD has the same exact issue.

So in the past, I used Linux as a daily driver for over 5 years. I was a Freebsd Ports Porter for a few years, and am now a C++ programmer on games in which I release Linux builds for. I’m not unfamiliar with making Linux work. It’s not just drivers but a whole set of issues in which I had to drop Linux for Windows.

Also, the 1000s of different updates aren’t hyperbole. I’ve absolutely had that on Manjaro. On Linux Mint I have updates almost daily but it’s typically only a handful of things.

Cool, AMD also isn’t a saint: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AMD_FX#Controversy https://www.pcgamer.com/starfield-partners-with-amd-and-oh-boy-the-internet-is-not-happy/ every major company has it’s issues. I don’t hate AMD, I’d probably still buy them if I found them as good as Nvidia but overall I don’t. They still do some shady stuff like blocking rival upscalers or straight-up lying to customers.

So if you base your opinion of a company around one thing, that’s fine. More power to you. I see these large corporate hardware overlords as all the same and work with what makes my life easier.

Sure I feel like the difference there is large corporations vs companies. I worked with a company that used Windows 98 in 2010. Probably used it until they shut down in 2019. That one computer probably lasted the lifetime of the company.

So those who can’t switch, won’t, and that’s fine, it’s still a usable computer without putting Linux on it. Those who can put Windows 11 on their computers will. Those who can afford new computers will upgrade. It’s not like these computers weren’t going to get replaced at one point anyway. Like this article points out, it “could” prompt a torrent of e-waste but realistically, it probably will produce the same amount of e-waste as we always have but now be under a different lens.

So then Linux as a community needs to foster better working relations and funding for developers to get major things working on their platform.

there is no “Linux” in this room who decided to switch…

No, it’s more of a community hivemind which is part of the issue. A hivemind can act together for the most part but it increasingly becomes hard to have direction on a hivemind. It goes where it wants, you can’t direct it but only offer it paths. So the majority of Linux users seem to want to scream that Linux is fine to use for common users while also saying “Well we don’t need to be a majority OS anyways, we shouldn’t invest time into trying to become one.” Any feedback actual users give to Linux communities ends up like this discussion, just filled with excuses or remarks that the user is holding it wrong. Using the wrong hardware, using the wrong distro, not being knowledgeable enough. Yet they do nothing to resolve those issues.

So regarding this part:

that’s what could influence future decisions.

I don’t think anything can do that. Linux future decisions aren’t influenceable except by contributors and they do what they want without really being able to tell them that the OS they’ve contributed to is somehow broken.

I agree with one exception, in my experience, flatpak just adds a layer of headaches. Things like Steam don’t act as they should without configuring them more than I should need to. Which honestly, steam specifically should require zero configuration, you install it, sign in, and you are up and running. Having to muck around with steam play or just getting steam to open from flatpak entirely drives me away from it.

“It’s not reasonable or rooted in reality” - Yet multiple people saying “Oh, yeah I agree!” Instead of just insultingly saying it’s not reasonable or rooted in reality, assume good faith like you are supposed to as a beehawer. Explain your position, stop throwing shade on a valid opinion without any substance.

At EoL, corporate security tells the IT department to uninstall it.

In that case, big corporations are already on Windows 11 and have thrown away any Windows 10 computer that couldn’t upgrade. Most of those machines go home with people though.

Windows works great because MS tapes it back together slightly faster than it falls apart. When EoL hits, those devices are either trashed, firewalled into oblivion, or assimilated into the kube.

if this was true then Windows XP and 7 wouldn’t have lasted as long as they did.

On windows it’s trivial.

I’ve bought this game because of you. This looks amazing, thank you for bringing it up!

(or they can keep Windows 10 on it and just got get patches like many did with Windows XP)

I like Linux but the issues I’ve had in the past, while they can be resolved, generally take up more time that I’m willing to put in. I don’t want a hobby just to keep my PC working.

That’s absolutely the case and it reminds me that Linux is a hobby OS for trinkering. Not a production OS for people who want to get stuff done. From 2008 to 2014 I used Linux as my daily driver. After that, I switched to Linux every year to see if it got better and it never truly has. This year I finally nuked my Linux hard drive and put NTFS on it as a 4th SSD for Windows to use. Linux might be ready one day but it will be because of a proprietary company gave it direction, motive, and industry connections to solve the problems with it.

Barely, I’m getting a bunch of Linux nerd flak due to a reasonable opinion I made as a top-level comment. So much for Be Nice.

I don’t get this argument because EoL doesn’t mean they can’t keep windows 10 on it.

The second is that I’ve not found a distro that won’t occasionally just blow itself up on an upgrade. Driver issues, circular dependencies, and all manner of other things that a normal user just doesn’t know how to deal with.

This is my number one gripe on Linux. It’s supposed to be more stable than Windows but the truth is that it’s only true if you compare a Linux install you never update to a Windows install which is constantly updating for you, making sure you have the latest security patches automatically, ensuring your system is up to date and ready to use. Sometimes (like 0.1% of the time) Windows gets it wrong and upgrades you to a place where you have to revert the upgrade, but it does so automatically. Like Linux, figure that one out first. The most successful consumer Linux platforms (android, steam deck, etc) all are immutable and software/hardware locked. So they never worry about “oh this person has a Nvidia driver and a Wacom tablet, let’s make sure we don’t mess up either of those with a kernel update that doesn’t include the drivers for those yet.”

Both Intel and AMD GPUs work fine on Linux. Both work fine with Wayland.

k, so for the least used hardware, linux works fine. Good to know.

Wayland has been around for over a decade and has been in a usable state for the last 3 or so years.

Eh, no, KDE last year just barely started working with Wayland.

Attributing the fact that Nvidia stuff still barely works to the fact that some distros have made Wayland the default is just stupid wrong.

The popular distros are what counts. Debian, Ubuntu, and Fedora. Just because you have some minor 0.00001% usage distro that still defaults to X11 doesn’t really matter.

Besides, Nvidia experience isn’t/wasn’t the smoothest even on Xorg. Linux desktop is simply not a priority for Nvidia.

Worked well enough for me to run into the dozen of other issues that Linux has. While I am sure you will just blow it off as not the true fault of Linux, the result is the same. I like most people want a usable environment. Linux doesn’t provide that out of the box. You can argue excuses for it all day but the end of it is, it’s not going to be a useful OS until it works out of the box with things like wacom tablets (which are broken with nvidia drivers), xbox controllers (which are just broken unless you do research and install the correct driver), and tons of incompatible software (which I am sure you can blame the developers for.) The end result is the same though, you don’t have a working environment.

Linux is only a problem for folks used to someone else.

I assume you mean for folks used to something else and if that’s what you mean, no, it’s not. People want to play minecraft, fortnite, and use office without problems. Hell, right now with how the Nvidia/Wayland situation is, I can’t even launch the fedora 36 live cd to install it without it crashing on my 3080, amd ryzen 9.

Also, the article is about ewaste. Meaning, these machines are going to be trashed unless someone puts linux on them. So I’d say your diatribe of misinformation was misplaced.

No, it doesn’t, It means they’ll be using Windows 10 without patching. At the EoL, Windows 10 doesn’t uninstall itself.

At least one computer in every US household (these stats show 2 but let’s just keep it one https://www.statista.com/statistics/1107206/average-number-of-connected-devices-us-house/ since it is an average). It’s hard to say that desktops are mostly used in business since there are only 754,633 office workers in the US (https://www.zippia.com/office-worker-jobs/demographics/) and 131.43 million households. ( https://www.statista.com/statistics/183635/number-of-households-in-the-us/ )

Also, many people used Windows XP after its EoL, so much so that they increased it. It’s likely going to be the case here. Windows 10 EoL doesn’t mean the end of use. People seriously, care little about security. They don’t care about having the latest updates. They care about using a functioning computer.

Nvidia works fine on X11. You might say it’s Nvidia’s fault for not supporting Wayland more or not having open drivers but the truth is, it doesn’t truly matter. What matters is the end result.