A judge dismissed applications on Thursday from the truck driver who caused the deadly Humboldt Broncos bus crash and was fighting deportation back to India. Jaskirat Singh Sidhu was sentenced to eig...
You’re not incorrect about that in a sense, but I’ve yet to hear of one so catastrophic. What about Ali Ibrahim, you’re gonna tell me as if a natural citizen is incapable of raping and murdering a little girl in a “strange land”? You saying these things would happen regardless so just open the floodgates even more, CenturyInitiative style?
We’ll come back to that per my energy to deal with it but lwts talk Ali Ibrahim for a moment if you’ll indulge me. Bit harder to argue against ;)
Edit: also, just because the data says one thing DOES NOT in any sense preclude the existence of severe outlier data points (anecdata)…its pretty real for the family, court staff, and the medical examiner who suicided herself post-cross-examination/case-in-chief. Is it getting real enough or has McGill published a counter-arguement that can prove none of that stuff happened either?
Edit: most people are terrible about rolling stops, its insane
most people are terrible about rolling stops, its insane
The stop signs seem more like a polite suggestion here 🤣 And why don’t they just increase the speed limit to 120 already.
just because the data says one thing DOES NOT in any sense preclude the existence of severe outlier data points
That’s why we should rely on the data, decisions shouldn’t be based on anecdotal outliers. No one is excusing the horrific acts of Ali Ibrahim or any other immigrant. It’s just that their immigrant status doesn’t have a causal relationship with crime so immigration status is irrelevant. We all want to reduce violent crime in Canada so lets focus on identifying real causal relationships so that we can support at risk individuals.
Why wasn’t he required to have a surety/translator? If I’m wearing my empathy hat for a moment: He needed a guide anyway because he was unable to read and write, you cannot have someone like that wandering without support. He should not have been allowed to be running around unsupported or unsupervised. How are you going to argue with that?
You agree someone like that should be allowed to be out on the prowl?
Edit: re:rolling stops, its annoying how easy it is and nobody does it lol. I have to drill it in my brain cuz theyll totally ticket you for it
Why wasn’t he required to have a surety/translator?
That’s a valid question no matter where they were born. I’m not arguing that there were no failings in this case, I’m arguing that those failings are not related to the original citizenship of this individual.
As I said earlier
We all want to reduce violent crime in Canada so lets focus on identifying real causal relationships so that we can support at risk individuals.
Let’s identify at risk individuals (both possible victims and possible attackers) instead of scapegoating non casual and even non correlated attributes of individuals who commit violent acts.
re: traffic laws in Canada. From my experience, it depends where you are in Canada (and what number plates you have). Driving the speed limit on Toronto highways is dangerous but going 10 over with Ontario plates in Quebec can get you a ticket 😅 There are lots of unwritten road rules here, it was difficult to learn as an immigrant. Especially coming from a country littered with speed cameras where 7km over will get you fined hundreds of dollars. And don’t get me wrong, I think Canadian drivers are generally really good, it’s just the laws don’t align with the reality which can be confusing.
They’ve been talking about this intersection or whateverfor 10 years. Somehow, everyone else avoided it.
I’m stating a simple fact that were it not for his entire context, this would not have happened (yet). An overworked, likely overfatigued, undertrained, exploited immigrant who doesn’t actually comport with skilled immigration (which has a valid basis) is a recipe for disaster and even without any such danger, is still morally indefensible. Try to stick to what I say, lets avoid the rhetoric and have a grownup discussion about this.
Really getting tired of the invective and mock-outrage
If this intersection has been talked about for over a decade, it sounds like a lot of people got lucky and one person got unlucky, causing the deaths of a bunch of people.
There was a notorious corner near where I live. A family friend was going to work and taking his kids to school, as well as another kid, I believe. He and most or all of the people got hit by a truck and died. 4 or 5 people, obviously devastating for the families. Also not the first accident at that corner, major or minor. (This is a major intersection, thousands of vehicles a day, so even infrequent events happen a lot.)Sure, I could get angry at the truck driver. Alternatively, I could get frustrated with the local government for leaving an obviously dangerous intersection unchanged. It’s finally getting altered, presumably to make it safer.
There’s lots about the situation that need to be evaluated because many things went wrong that day that in aggregate allowed this outcome. There are powerful business interests, there is negligence in local governance, federal government failure in not ensuring working immigrants are not able to be exploited, etc.
The list goes on, it just frustrates me when people scream “racism” and try to shut down any intelligent + nuanced discussion of the tough facts inherent to the case.
I agree, There should have been a better policy. Your example PERFECTLY illustrates my point (to the extent it was a decision or lack of the Aboriginal folks not resolving to ensure we never took root) despite the fact I think its a shame it has to be like that and also Canada is basically impossible to totally regulate in terms of unauthorized access.
Absolutely! White people (particularly Laurentian “élite” are absolutley responsible for the lack of a credible and well-regulated immigration system that enabled every rung on the ladder of this entire situation. Its social murder, they should all be individually and systemically punished
Edit: you’re seriously gonna argue the two are not indirectly-related. There is no hope here
What allowed or compelled those conditions? You don’t think his “bosses” ever threatened him with deportation if he didn’t bend the rules/reg one more time?
So if he had never arrived here, you think those kids were marked by the universe for some insane fate that is conserved and was meant to be?
I don’t hate him. How can you say I hate him when I empathize with his case immensly (hence the difficult case. Him and his wife’s new life is being destroyed and I think he’s a lot more decent than many Canadians).
I also wanted and advocated for letting him stay, not sure if it was on this platform but I’m between several Reddit-type formats
Why do you make these statements without actually engaging substantively?
Why are you so willing to use racism/hate as a proxy to let his deadbeat employers (who were objecively exploiting the immigration system for frwsh meat and cheap unregulated labor) completely off the hook, and any politicians or officials they likely bribed at some point)
i am all for blaming the human that overworked this other human, and know damn well youre the recist fuck blaming a terrible tragedy on immigration.
if you want to go after business owners, awesome. but why the word ‘immigration’ is used here in any capacity shows you seem to have a different motive than holding business owners accountable for being pieces of shit to humans.
Edit: also, how do you think the fucks doing this (his bosses) get to pull this shit at all? Loose Immigration system that as always is in favor of the big employers
A regular citizen employee (economics permitting which is its own huge problem that everyone’s ok with) can just report the bullshit and hopefully be protected+ rewarded maybe.
A person in his delicate immigration situation is beyond exploitable to the point of horrors like this predictably and naturally unfolding as has been the case here and, on the unemployable side, Ali Ibrahim
You are not logged in. However you can subscribe from another Fediverse account, for example Lemmy or Mastodon. To do this, paste the following into the search field of your instance: !canada@lemmy.ca
This is a terrible assessment. As if no natural citizen is capable of running stop signs.
Gross
You’re not incorrect about that in a sense, but I’ve yet to hear of one so catastrophic. What about Ali Ibrahim, you’re gonna tell me as if a natural citizen is incapable of raping and murdering a little girl in a “strange land”? You saying these things would happen regardless so just open the floodgates even more, CenturyInitiative style?
There’s clearly nothing for us to discuss lol
The data does not support the argument that an increase in immigration leads to an increases crime. As a side note, I’m an immigrant and I come to a complete stop at stop signs and drive the speed limit. None of my Canadian born friends do 😅
We’ll come back to that per my energy to deal with it but lwts talk Ali Ibrahim for a moment if you’ll indulge me. Bit harder to argue against ;)
Edit: also, just because the data says one thing DOES NOT in any sense preclude the existence of severe outlier data points (anecdata)…its pretty real for the family, court staff, and the medical examiner who suicided herself post-cross-examination/case-in-chief. Is it getting real enough or has McGill published a counter-arguement that can prove none of that stuff happened either?
Edit: most people are terrible about rolling stops, its insane
The stop signs seem more like a polite suggestion here 🤣 And why don’t they just increase the speed limit to 120 already.
That’s why we should rely on the data, decisions shouldn’t be based on anecdotal outliers. No one is excusing the horrific acts of Ali Ibrahim or any other immigrant. It’s just that their immigrant status doesn’t have a causal relationship with crime so immigration status is irrelevant. We all want to reduce violent crime in Canada so lets focus on identifying real causal relationships so that we can support at risk individuals.
Why wasn’t he required to have a surety/translator? If I’m wearing my empathy hat for a moment: He needed a guide anyway because he was unable to read and write, you cannot have someone like that wandering without support. He should not have been allowed to be running around unsupported or unsupervised. How are you going to argue with that?
You agree someone like that should be allowed to be out on the prowl?
Edit: re:rolling stops, its annoying how easy it is and nobody does it lol. I have to drill it in my brain cuz theyll totally ticket you for it
That’s a valid question no matter where they were born. I’m not arguing that there were no failings in this case, I’m arguing that those failings are not related to the original citizenship of this individual.
As I said earlier
Let’s identify at risk individuals (both possible victims and possible attackers) instead of scapegoating non casual and even non correlated attributes of individuals who commit violent acts.
re: traffic laws in Canada. From my experience, it depends where you are in Canada (and what number plates you have). Driving the speed limit on Toronto highways is dangerous but going 10 over with Ontario plates in Quebec can get you a ticket 😅 There are lots of unwritten road rules here, it was difficult to learn as an immigrant. Especially coming from a country littered with speed cameras where 7km over will get you fined hundreds of dollars. And don’t get me wrong, I think Canadian drivers are generally really good, it’s just the laws don’t align with the reality which can be confusing.
They’ve been talking about this intersection or whateverfor 10 years. Somehow, everyone else avoided it.
I’m stating a simple fact that were it not for his entire context, this would not have happened (yet). An overworked, likely overfatigued, undertrained, exploited immigrant who doesn’t actually comport with skilled immigration (which has a valid basis) is a recipe for disaster and even without any such danger, is still morally indefensible. Try to stick to what I say, lets avoid the rhetoric and have a grownup discussion about this.
Really getting tired of the invective and mock-outrage
If this intersection has been talked about for over a decade, it sounds like a lot of people got lucky and one person got unlucky, causing the deaths of a bunch of people.
There was a notorious corner near where I live. A family friend was going to work and taking his kids to school, as well as another kid, I believe. He and most or all of the people got hit by a truck and died. 4 or 5 people, obviously devastating for the families. Also not the first accident at that corner, major or minor. (This is a major intersection, thousands of vehicles a day, so even infrequent events happen a lot.)Sure, I could get angry at the truck driver. Alternatively, I could get frustrated with the local government for leaving an obviously dangerous intersection unchanged. It’s finally getting altered, presumably to make it safer.
There’s lots about the situation that need to be evaluated because many things went wrong that day that in aggregate allowed this outcome. There are powerful business interests, there is negligence in local governance, federal government failure in not ensuring working immigrants are not able to be exploited, etc.
The list goes on, it just frustrates me when people scream “racism” and try to shut down any intelligent + nuanced discussion of the tough facts inherent to the case.
This accident was not caused directly or indirectly by immigration. Stating it as such is flat out racism.
Overworked? Yep. Terrible tragedy? Definitely.
Ya know this accident would never have occurred if white people didn’t invade canada
I agree, There should have been a better policy. Your example PERFECTLY illustrates my point (to the extent it was a decision or lack of the Aboriginal folks not resolving to ensure we never took root) despite the fact I think its a shame it has to be like that and also Canada is basically impossible to totally regulate in terms of unauthorized access.
so you agree that white people caused this accident, thanks for clearing that up!
Absolutely! White people (particularly Laurentian “élite” are absolutley responsible for the lack of a credible and well-regulated immigration system that enabled every rung on the ladder of this entire situation. Its social murder, they should all be individually and systemically punished
Edit: nice 👎
Edit: you’re seriously gonna argue the two are not indirectly-related. There is no hope here
What allowed or compelled those conditions? You don’t think his “bosses” ever threatened him with deportation if he didn’t bend the rules/reg one more time?
So if he had never arrived here, you think those kids were marked by the universe for some insane fate that is conserved and was meant to be?
i think that any accident that happens is an accident, regardless of the source of the human beings. jesus christ how can people be this hateful.
I don’t hate him. How can you say I hate him when I empathize with his case immensly (hence the difficult case. Him and his wife’s new life is being destroyed and I think he’s a lot more decent than many Canadians).
I also wanted and advocated for letting him stay, not sure if it was on this platform but I’m between several Reddit-type formats
Why do you make these statements without actually engaging substantively?
Why are you so willing to use racism/hate as a proxy to let his deadbeat employers (who were objecively exploiting the immigration system for frwsh meat and cheap unregulated labor) completely off the hook, and any politicians or officials they likely bribed at some point)
i am all for blaming the human that overworked this other human, and know damn well youre the recist fuck blaming a terrible tragedy on immigration.
if you want to go after business owners, awesome. but why the word ‘immigration’ is used here in any capacity shows you seem to have a different motive than holding business owners accountable for being pieces of shit to humans.
Ok
Edit: also, how do you think the fucks doing this (his bosses) get to pull this shit at all? Loose Immigration system that as always is in favor of the big employers
A regular citizen employee (economics permitting which is its own huge problem that everyone’s ok with) can just report the bullshit and hopefully be protected+ rewarded maybe.
A person in his delicate immigration situation is beyond exploitable to the point of horrors like this predictably and naturally unfolding as has been the case here and, on the unemployable side, Ali Ibrahim