There is plenty of evidence widely available from organizations like human rights watch and amnesty international. Claims that deny any evidence exist of the persecution of China’s Muslim population rely on logical fallacies to attempt to obscure the validity of the body of evidence. Namely ad hominem attacks against the individual who first gathered the evidence to begin with.
While the researcher obviously has biased opinions about the CCP, that doesn’t affect the validity of the evidence gathered, most of which comes directly from publicly available information released by the CCP itself, or from leaked internal communication from party members that have been widely verified by reputable journalists and organizations specializing in human rights violations.
While I personally wouldn’t claim that there is a genocide as we traditionally understand it has occurred, it’s hard to deny that the Uyghur people aren’t being systemically oppressed or that significant human rights violations haven’t occurred.
Simply looking at publicly available census data releases by the CCP we can tell that Uyghur people are being driven from culturally important sites that are being replaced by ethnically Han Chinese, and that Uyghur populations have been shrinking at a worryingly abnormal rate.
If we look at recent history of ethnic conflict within China in tibet, Manchuria, and inner Mongolia, I fail to see why it’s logical to assume that the accusations of crimes against humanity is pure propaganda.
Han chauvinism is well documented, and even Mao Zedong spoke about how it would negatively affect the future of the party. Ethnic conflict/cleansing has been a constant in the region and is part of the foundational history of modern China.
While I personally wouldn’t claim that there is a genocide as we traditionally understand it has occurred, it’s hard to deny that the Uyghur people aren’t being systemically oppressed or that significant human rights violations haven’t occurred.
It is politicization to be overly critical of China over what is a reasonable solution to peace and prosperity in the region, while the west contributes to 1000x worse treatment of Palestinians. That politicization gap shows that there is zero concern for actual genocide or persecution and instead a desire for (or avoidance for Israel for) political criticism independent of prosperity/facts.
It is politicization to be overly critical of China over what is a reasonable solution to peace and prosperity in the region
So… Forcing an entire ethnic group into concentration camps, forced migration, forced assimilation, and depopulation is reasonable? For what, because there were a couple attacks from some extremists?
while the west contributes to 1000x worse treatment of Palestinians.
I wasn’t aware it was a competition? Human rights violations should be criticized no matter who’s doing it.
That politicization gap shows that there is zero concern for actual genocide or persecution and instead a desire for (or avoidance for Israel for) political criticism independent of prosperity/facts.
Again… I’m not the American government. I am very critical of the US governments involvement with many genocides throughout history. I am also very critical of any government who participates in similar human rights violations, because I’m not a massive hypocrite.
So… Forcing an entire ethnic group into concentration camps, forced migration, forced assimilation, and depopulation is reasonable? For what, because there were a couple attacks from some extremists?
Hard proof of all of that has never been produced. Contrary facts exist for all your points.
As I said, most of the information used has been verified by independent reporters or human rights organizations.
If you required the same level of “hard proof” as you are dictating for China then most crimes against humanity never happened.
We have video and pictures of concentration camps, we have verified internal documents, we have demographics released to the public by the offending government, we have personal testimony, we have announcements from the government admitting to moderate the birth limits of an extreme minority in the country…
secret papers can’t be hard proof. Neither is a photo of what may be a prison. There are extremely weak documentaries trying to hype up “re-education”, but the US pledge of allegiance would be equivalent indoctrination.
If you required the same level of “hard proof” as you are dictating for China then most crimes against humanity never happened.
at the risk of whataboutism, you have Israel engaged in genocidal mass murder on video. Politics of shit talking China is far more important than any objective principle of oppression.
We have video and pictures of concentration camps, we have verified internal documents, we have demographics released to the public by the offending government, we have personal testimony, we have announcements from the government admitting to moderate the birth limits of an extreme minority in the country…
There is genuine context/exaggeration to all of these points. Demographics and income specifically show Xinxiang doing better than average in China.
According to…? If you read the article the leaks were cross referenced and verified using things like time, date, other communications and even individual signatures.
Internal documents are some of the most sought after forms of evidence when examining crimes against humanity. One of the reasons the Holocaust is beyond doubt is because the Nazi had so many “secret” documents.
the risk of whataboutism, you have Israel engaged in genocidal mass murder on video.
Yes, and one of the reasons why is because foreign journalist have access to the region. One wonders why China have levied so many access restrictions to Xinjiang.
Politics of shit talking China is far more important than any objective principle of oppression.
Sounds like a projection to me. I would say you care more about defending any type of criticism more than oppression that is happening.
There is genuine context/exaggeration to all of these points.
Such as?
Demographics and income specifically show Xinxiang doing better than average in China.
Would you care to extrapolate on this, or should I just take your claims as fact?
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There is plenty of evidence widely available from organizations like human rights watch and amnesty international. Claims that deny any evidence exist of the persecution of China’s Muslim population rely on logical fallacies to attempt to obscure the validity of the body of evidence. Namely ad hominem attacks against the individual who first gathered the evidence to begin with.
While the researcher obviously has biased opinions about the CCP, that doesn’t affect the validity of the evidence gathered, most of which comes directly from publicly available information released by the CCP itself, or from leaked internal communication from party members that have been widely verified by reputable journalists and organizations specializing in human rights violations.
While I personally wouldn’t claim that there is a genocide as we traditionally understand it has occurred, it’s hard to deny that the Uyghur people aren’t being systemically oppressed or that significant human rights violations haven’t occurred.
Simply looking at publicly available census data releases by the CCP we can tell that Uyghur people are being driven from culturally important sites that are being replaced by ethnically Han Chinese, and that Uyghur populations have been shrinking at a worryingly abnormal rate.
If we look at recent history of ethnic conflict within China in tibet, Manchuria, and inner Mongolia, I fail to see why it’s logical to assume that the accusations of crimes against humanity is pure propaganda.
Han chauvinism is well documented, and even Mao Zedong spoke about how it would negatively affect the future of the party. Ethnic conflict/cleansing has been a constant in the region and is part of the foundational history of modern China.
It is politicization to be overly critical of China over what is a reasonable solution to peace and prosperity in the region, while the west contributes to 1000x worse treatment of Palestinians. That politicization gap shows that there is zero concern for actual genocide or persecution and instead a desire for (or avoidance for Israel for) political criticism independent of prosperity/facts.
Two wrongs don’t make a right.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism
So… Forcing an entire ethnic group into concentration camps, forced migration, forced assimilation, and depopulation is reasonable? For what, because there were a couple attacks from some extremists?
I wasn’t aware it was a competition? Human rights violations should be criticized no matter who’s doing it.
Again… I’m not the American government. I am very critical of the US governments involvement with many genocides throughout history. I am also very critical of any government who participates in similar human rights violations, because I’m not a massive hypocrite.
Hard proof of all of that has never been produced. Contrary facts exist for all your points.
What do you consider hard proof?
As I said, most of the information used has been verified by independent reporters or human rights organizations.
If you required the same level of “hard proof” as you are dictating for China then most crimes against humanity never happened.
We have video and pictures of concentration camps, we have verified internal documents, we have demographics released to the public by the offending government, we have personal testimony, we have announcements from the government admitting to moderate the birth limits of an extreme minority in the country…
What else could you possibly want?
secret papers can’t be hard proof. Neither is a photo of what may be a prison. There are extremely weak documentaries trying to hype up “re-education”, but the US pledge of allegiance would be equivalent indoctrination.
at the risk of whataboutism, you have Israel engaged in genocidal mass murder on video. Politics of shit talking China is far more important than any objective principle of oppression.
There is genuine context/exaggeration to all of these points. Demographics and income specifically show Xinxiang doing better than average in China.
According to…? If you read the article the leaks were cross referenced and verified using things like time, date, other communications and even individual signatures.
Internal documents are some of the most sought after forms of evidence when examining crimes against humanity. One of the reasons the Holocaust is beyond doubt is because the Nazi had so many “secret” documents.
Yes, and one of the reasons why is because foreign journalist have access to the region. One wonders why China have levied so many access restrictions to Xinjiang.
Sounds like a projection to me. I would say you care more about defending any type of criticism more than oppression that is happening.
Such as?
Would you care to extrapolate on this, or should I just take your claims as fact?
population growth (2010-2020) 4th highest province: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Chinese_administrative_divisions_by_population#/media/File:Annual_population_growth_rate_by_Chinese_province.svg
Xinxiang has had autonomous long term exemptions to one child policy.
gdp growth 2024, 2nd highest: https://www.statista.com/statistics/1179690/china-gross-domestic-product-gdp-growth-by-region-province/#%3A~%3Atext=GDP+growth+in+China+2024%2C+by+region&text=In+2024%2C+the+annual+real%2Cat+5.0+percent+in+2024.
longer term growth, shows the region outperforming China average, with higher outperformance in recent years. https://www.statista.com/statistics/804093/china-gdp-annual-growth-of-xinjiang-province/