@argv_minus_one@hedge both extremes have incorrect points, abortions should neither be encouraged nor be banned. they should be allowed as a medical procedure, not a form of birth control.
Abortion has never been a form of birth control. It has always been a fail-safe for when birth control fails (e.g. a condom breaks) or could not be used (e.g. because a woman was raped). Please do not repeat right-wing misinformation.
@argv_minus_one making abortions completely legal and encouraging them would lead to that right? statistics all seem to support abortions being used as a form of birth control. this is not right wing misinformation, studies by the NAF states that 48% of women who have had an abortion have had two or more. which is quite high considering 48% of women do not have those abortions as a medical procedure.
making abortions completely legal and encouraging them would lead to that right?
No, because they’re more expensive, more time-consuming, and more dangerous than birth control.
studies by the NAF states that 48% of women who have had an abortion have had two or more.
Which does not demonstrate that they are using abortion as birth control. That would be demonstrated by hundreds of abortions, not merely two, and virtually no one can even afford hundreds of abortions.
Once again, please stop repeating right-wing misinformation.
I’m sorry, why can’t it be used as birth control? Why can’t a medical procedure between a doctor and patient be done to better the life of the patient?
This whole anti abortion thing started with one guy in America forever ago and has spread from there. But before his crusade against abortions not many people felt one way or another about them. This seems to me like a group of people advocating making any cancer removal illegal.
@Didros personally I believe that life begins at conception. I don’t find myself agreeing with the argument of “oh it’s not a living being yet, so it’s okay to kill”. I believe that even though it’s a clump of cells, eliminating it would take away the potential of life from it. In the same sense, destroying a TV remote is fine because it has zero potential for life. However this does not make me Pro life, because I do acknowledge the hardships of life ; abortions are okay as a medical procedure.
Yeah, but cancer is a litteral lump of living cells. It’s an apt comparison.
And a sperm meeting an egg suddenly meaning life potential which is worth intervening in another’s medical decision is such a weird line. Especially in this county obsessed with freedoms.
It feels like such an arbitrary line to draw and agree with. When did you start this belief?
@Didros cancer is a clump of living cells that does not have the potential to turn into a living human being.
I’m quite young and I’m still yet to form opinions that are set in stone, I’d say I started believing in my arbitrary line about a month ago. It was influenced by emotions along with statistics about abortions in the US.
It is totally OK to be young and still forming your opinions! It is doubly OK, a sign of maturity even, to be self-aware about where those opinions are abased in fact and where they are driven by emotion (well done, there).
Now, if you can add a healthy understanding of how your opinions might impact the emotions of others (say, pregnant people whose health is under threat), why, you’ve got yourself the makings of an adult conversation.
So maybe go back, re-read the title of the article and give it a think. You’ll be miles ahead of 99% of the ‘adults’ on the internet if you do.
This is a great stance to take until the government forces you to regularly go through a life-threatening procedure to harvest your bone marrow so another person might live.
Yes, that is accurate, they won’t become a human baby. But neither will a pregnancy of a woman who can not afford to be pregnant. Studies show legal and illegal abortions happen at about the same rate, just not safey. Usually when abortions are legal for a bit the rate of abortions actually drops more than when illegal for a time.
Also fun fact time: a clump of cancer cells turned out to be one of the biggest medical discoveries of this Era of medicine. If you wanna know more about what happened to Henrietta Lacks: https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/henriettalacks/
It’s weirder then that: The reason is: “It’s god’s plan that you became pregnant, and if you do not survive, that’s god’s plan too. We just need to trust the plan”.
It’s one of the reasons why I strongly believe religion is the source of all things evil.
And nothing heinous has ever been done without religion?
The faithful give over three times as much in charitable donations as the secular, and volunteer three to four times as often.
Plus, the religious have been persecuted for their beliefs as long as there had been human history, which is what you are proposing by suggesting that religion should be eliminated.
Tell me 1 good deed done in the name of religion that could not have been done without religion.
There are numerous heinous deeds done in the name of religion because it told them to do it…
People are people, they will do bad and good things. But religion always makes them worse because they put themselves above others.
The religious are only persecuted by other religions and currently religions are persecuting the non believers. (Christo fascism in the USA as a prime example)
And lastly, if churches would start paying their fair share of tax. No one will need to donate ever again.
You are not logged in. However you can subscribe from another Fediverse account, for example Lemmy or Mastodon. To do this, paste the following into the search field of your instance: !politics@beehaw.org
In-depth political discussion from around the world; if it’s a political happening, you can post it here.
Guidelines for submissions:
Where possible, post the original source of information.
If there is a paywall, you can use alternative sources or provide an archive.today, 12ft.io, etc. link in the body.
Do not editorialize titles. Preserve the original title when possible; edits for clarity are fine.
Do not post ragebait or shock stories. These will be removed.
Do not post tabloid or blogspam stories. These will be removed.
Social media should be a source of last resort.
These guidelines will be enforced on a know-it-when-I-see-it basis.
Don’t care? They know it and they want it. The cruelty is the point.
I wonder if it’s the point so much as an ‘unfortunate’ byproduct. I think it’s more of a take a win at any cost because “fuck the libs”
@argv_minus_one @hedge both extremes have incorrect points, abortions should neither be encouraged nor be banned. they should be allowed as a medical procedure, not a form of birth control.
Abortion has never been a form of birth control. It has always been a fail-safe for when birth control fails (e.g. a condom breaks) or could not be used (e.g. because a woman was raped). Please do not repeat right-wing misinformation.
@argv_minus_one making abortions completely legal and encouraging them would lead to that right? statistics all seem to support abortions being used as a form of birth control. this is not right wing misinformation, studies by the NAF states that 48% of women who have had an abortion have had two or more. which is quite high considering 48% of women do not have those abortions as a medical procedure.
No, because they’re more expensive, more time-consuming, and more dangerous than birth control.
Which does not demonstrate that they are using abortion as birth control. That would be demonstrated by hundreds of abortions, not merely two, and virtually no one can even afford hundreds of abortions.
Once again, please stop repeating right-wing misinformation.
I’m sorry, why can’t it be used as birth control? Why can’t a medical procedure between a doctor and patient be done to better the life of the patient?
This whole anti abortion thing started with one guy in America forever ago and has spread from there. But before his crusade against abortions not many people felt one way or another about them. This seems to me like a group of people advocating making any cancer removal illegal.
@Didros personally I believe that life begins at conception. I don’t find myself agreeing with the argument of “oh it’s not a living being yet, so it’s okay to kill”. I believe that even though it’s a clump of cells, eliminating it would take away the potential of life from it. In the same sense, destroying a TV remote is fine because it has zero potential for life. However this does not make me Pro life, because I do acknowledge the hardships of life ; abortions are okay as a medical procedure.
Even if it’s life, no life is allowed to commandeer another person’s body to survive. Period.
Yeah, but cancer is a litteral lump of living cells. It’s an apt comparison.
And a sperm meeting an egg suddenly meaning life potential which is worth intervening in another’s medical decision is such a weird line. Especially in this county obsessed with freedoms.
It feels like such an arbitrary line to draw and agree with. When did you start this belief?
@Didros cancer is a clump of living cells that does not have the potential to turn into a living human being.
I’m quite young and I’m still yet to form opinions that are set in stone, I’d say I started believing in my arbitrary line about a month ago. It was influenced by emotions along with statistics about abortions in the US.
It is totally OK to be young and still forming your opinions! It is doubly OK, a sign of maturity even, to be self-aware about where those opinions are abased in fact and where they are driven by emotion (well done, there).
Now, if you can add a healthy understanding of how your opinions might impact the emotions of others (say, pregnant people whose health is under threat), why, you’ve got yourself the makings of an adult conversation.
So maybe go back, re-read the title of the article and give it a think. You’ll be miles ahead of 99% of the ‘adults’ on the internet if you do.
This is a great stance to take until the government forces you to regularly go through a life-threatening procedure to harvest your bone marrow so another person might live.
Yes, that is accurate, they won’t become a human baby. But neither will a pregnancy of a woman who can not afford to be pregnant. Studies show legal and illegal abortions happen at about the same rate, just not safey. Usually when abortions are legal for a bit the rate of abortions actually drops more than when illegal for a time.
Edit: a source for abortion rates and legality: https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/how-the-u-s-compares-with-the-rest-of-the-world-on-abortion-rights
Though because of the nature of this debate you can find very convincing studies that find tge exact opposite from all over tge internet. Figured PBS would be a mostly trusted source.
Also fun fact time: a clump of cancer cells turned out to be one of the biggest medical discoveries of this Era of medicine. If you wanna know more about what happened to Henrietta Lacks: https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/henriettalacks/
It’s weirder then that: The reason is: “It’s god’s plan that you became pregnant, and if you do not survive, that’s god’s plan too. We just need to trust the plan”.
It’s one of the reasons why I strongly believe religion is the source of all things evil.
That’s not religion. That’s abusers using religion to control people. Which unfortunately the most vocal make sound like that’s all religion.
I always thought that was the entire point of religion.
Then you don’t know much about religion.
And you don’t know much about history.
Apparently more than you do.
Apparently not.
Islam says (for instance) that they have the final word of god. Thats pretty damning in and of itself. It leaves no room for anything else.
Christianity had been used through the ages to commit the most heinous crimes against humanity. They still do.
We should try a world without religion.
And nothing heinous has ever been done without religion?
The faithful give over three times as much in charitable donations as the secular, and volunteer three to four times as often.
Plus, the religious have been persecuted for their beliefs as long as there had been human history, which is what you are proposing by suggesting that religion should be eliminated.
Tell me 1 good deed done in the name of religion that could not have been done without religion.
There are numerous heinous deeds done in the name of religion because it told them to do it…
People are people, they will do bad and good things. But religion always makes them worse because they put themselves above others.
The religious are only persecuted by other religions and currently religions are persecuting the non believers. (Christo fascism in the USA as a prime example)
And lastly, if churches would start paying their fair share of tax. No one will need to donate ever again.
I don’t know how this never occurred to me but yes, this sounds right. Fuck this is terrifying.
This is why so many “founding fathers” around the world, including the US, did not want religion to play ANY part in politics.
We should return to their plan on this point.