Don’t give a shit if this is what you call it, or how you’ve been told to think. The only wasted vote is one more voice for the continued monopoly of capital, and that’s obviously exactly what you do every single election.
You’re prioritizing economic systems over people. That’s my problem with voting for third parties in light of fascism echoing the 1920s and 30s.
This is a pretty moronic statement. The choice of economic system is fundamental to if and how you prioritize people. The choice of capitalism is literally the choice to not prioritize people, but to prioritize property, and the interests of those who have power and will protect and hoard that property.
That’s my problem with voting for third parties in light of fascism echoing the 1920s and 30s.
You should honestly actually learn something about the rise of fascism in Nazi Germany and fascist Italy. For the love of all that is humane, read Fascism and Big Business by Daniel Guerin. YOU are buying into exactly that repeat of history you are using to fearmonger. Other, less reactionary liberals were absolutely instrumental to giving the fascist liberals power in both places, as they have proven over and over and over and over again that they will always do. There was—and is—absolutely no electoral or even legal solution to the problem of fascism. Literally the only thing that could have—and should have—stopped the fascists was organized labor and an organized left taking violent, direct action against them (Hitler and Goebbels both even admitted this explicitly).
While you are busy attacking the left—exactly as fascists do—and protecting those liberals who are literally upholding fascism (which is already here and has been for a long time), some of us are promoting the only thing that will save us from it: organizing, taking actual action, building liberation movements, and using liberal electoralism for the only good thing it can accomplish for the working class: getting people’s attention and broadcasting the messages that’ll get them to wake up, toss it in the bin, and move on to doing shit that’ll directly improve our lives.
Also, while you weren’t looking, you literally voted for a fascist in the last presidential election. Gotta love the promoting and subjugating oneself to Mussolini to save oneself from Hitler galaxy-brained liberal strategy of self-preservation.
Look, my take is that you are trying to combat fascism on philosophical terms, while I’m saying there is an even more pressing violence threatening people on a real level by taking steps that we know — at this moment in time — make it more likely to ending up with Republicans having power.
We don’t seem to be seeing things eye-to-eye, and you don’t seem to be able to hold this conversation without ad hominem attacks, so I’m going to check out.
Final note: I’m going to go back to my day, and forget about your condescension and nastiness because… well, I can. But if I see you talking this way to anyone else here (and I don’t just mean heated discussion), there will be consequences.
Have a nice day, and please be(e) respectful of everyone here.
Look, my take is that you are trying to combat fascism on philosophical terms
I mention direct action vs. you wanting to rely on electoralism and yet you claim I am the one “combating on philosophical terms”. Ironic.
more likely to ending up with Republicans having power.
This is why you have voted for fascists and will continue to do so. You believe they are constrained to a single party, and that the other liberals aren’t supporting them in nearly everything they do. Again, educate yourself. You referenced the 1930s, yet you clearly have not studied how fascism actually operated then. Or how it operates now.
We don’t seem to be seeing things eye-to-eye, and you don’t seem to be able to hold this conversation without ad hominem attacks, so I’m going to check out.
I see you don’t know what an ad hominem attack is. Everything I’ve said here is related to the content of your arguments. Criticism of your ignorance and ideology and how they manifest in your comments is not ad hominem. Pointing out how you support fascism by the agenda you are pushing and the very way you’ve implied you vote isn’t ad hominem. At least if you’re going to threaten people for calling you out, have some understanding of the accusations you are making of them first.
You’re right, that I haven’t been respectful in the sense of civility politics. But that started with you, shitting on anyone (including myself) who doesn’t vote for your favorite brand of the uni-party. My vote isn’t a “protest vote”, and yeah: fuck you for being disrespectful enough to call it that. Better start by banning yourself.
You were banned for 7 days for being unnecessarily confrontational and you come back and immediately pick another fight with a moderator? Why do you treat no one here with good faith? This isn’t a place to assume malicious negative intent. If you think the person is mislead speak your peace without insulting them, or even better try to educate them. If you can’t do either, this isn’t the space for you.
No? I continued an exchange where that mod had already replied to me. (Didn’t even realize they were a mod until they threatened me with “consequences” further on, by the way.)
Did you also miss the point that the mod was being just as insulting, from the start? I literally just pointed it out in the comment you replied to.
Did you miss where that moderator “assumed malicious negative intent” from me? Here, I’ll help:
You’re prioritizing economic systems over people.
Did you miss where I did, indeed, try to educate them? Let me help: every comment I’ve made. You might, in particular, like the part where I started with:
For the love of all that is humane, read Fascism and Big Business by Daniel Guerin. YOU are buying into exactly that repeat of history…
You banned me for 7 days (I guess—see below) for exactly the same kind of shit, and you’re really bad at judging these situations. But it’s good I have Big Brother admin stalking my comments to see if I follow the dictates of civility. Very cool.
EDIT: BTW, the only indication of being banned is that you can’t login; it just silently fails, as if there’s some kind of problem submitting the page. And then going to your own profile and seeing “banned” across the top. And no indication of whether it’s temporary or permanent, and no message from the system about why. Just FYI for when you do it again.
I have Big Brother admin stalking my comments to see if I follow the dictates of civility. Very cool.
I really don’t have the time to be stalking anyone. I’m here because your comments were reported, yet again. For the record, I didn’t ban you the last time, but I will share your feedback on a limited UI. I wish I was in control of that, but it’s unfortunately a limitation of lemmy- the modlog is public, by the way, so if you find yourself banned you can check it to see why.
The reason I’m here is because this is the fourth time I’ve been involved in chats with moderators about what to do with you. Help me out here, because many people don’t seem to like the way you’re behaving.
Here’s how I see your interactions:
You have a strong, and frankly from what I’ve seen often correct viewpoint and you like to chime in with it. This in and of itself is not a bad thing, but the way that you’re interacting with other users really just isn’t particularly nice. You call them names, you escalate, you assume that they’re out to get you or that if they don’t share your beliefs that they are less than you. I’m not particularly interested in playing the “who started it” game, because you didn’t try to diffuse the situation and that would go a long way demonstrating good faith. The moderator here did, they explicitly checked out after things got heated. They told you to have a nice day, and you still had to come back swinging.
What am I missing here? What am I misinterpreting?
The reason I’m here is because this is the fourth time I’ve been involved in chats with moderators about what to do with you. Help me out here, because many people don’t seem to like the way you’re behaving.
Pushing back on liberalism—and particularly its attack on the left—is, indeed, going to piss off a lot of liberals. Notice how in this conversation all I had to do was mention that I hope someone runs in the Green Party for ballot access, and that I will probably vote for them, in order for someone to go on the attack. Should I just start reporting that shit when it happens? Will you ban this moderator if I report them instead of clapping back? Is that how I get the authorities on this server to stop siding with the liberals for being liberal?
Realistically, if someone is intolerant to you, we’re not going to tone police you for responding in kind.
This, right here, looks an awful lot like tone policing to me, when there’s a hell of a lot of actual content and argument I made above in response to a liberal being insulting when I said I will vote for someone other than a Democrat. Perhaps being an admin of a site like this isn’t a great fit for folks who want to grease squeaky wheels and discipline anyone who disagrees with a moderator or with some of the general user base of a community.
Or, if that’s too challenging a line to walk, IDK maybe Beehaw should just ban political discussion and go to straight cat pics and hobbies. That’s unfortunately what a lot of families and professional environments come to when they can’t handle matters getting heated over literal life-and-death issues.
EDIT: I forgot to address the “de-escalation” part. They escalated above. Then they actually escalated in the same comment where they decided to bail. That is the very comment where they claimed I am “trying to combat fascism on philosophical terms”. Then they didn’t even just check out, but threatened me as a moderator with “consequences”. You seriously call that “de-escalating”? Is “de-escalation” to you just a cheap way to get the last word and tell someone that they are superficial and order them to shut the fuck up? (Taking notes as a moderator of /c/socialism myself, by the way. “What’s good for the goose,” I guess…)
This isn’t about sides, and I’m not sure how do communicate that to you. Our documents talk in depth about how this is a public space and we’re asking for a certain kind of behavior to your fellow user. I simply do not care if you two disagree - I care about how you disagree.
You’re pulling up other things I’ve said in order to start a fight with me when I’m asking for your help to understand what I’m missing. I cannot find any way to interpret this with good faith. Why are you fighting me instead of helping me to understand the bias you abuse me of? You’re treating me as someone attacking you even when I directly ask for your help and I just can’t see how anything else I’m going to say will change that. I’m timing you out for 2 weeks. If you come back and continue to be confrontational it’s likely to be permanent. If you don’t understand why I’m timing you out, you probably shouldn’t bother coming back, because I’m exhausted trying to explain what we’re trying to do here and it might just not be the space for you.
Meta-comment: I made an edit significantly after submitting my other reply. Didn’t want to bifurcate the discussion by putting its content in this comment, but don’t know if you’d already read the other one. So this is just to let you know about the update in case you’ve already marked it as read.
the only indication of being banned is that you can’t login; it just silently fails, as if there’s some kind of problem submitting the page. And then going to your own profile and seeing “banned” across the top. And no indication of whether it’s temporary or permanent, and no message from the system about why
@Gaywallet@beehaw.org is that true? From the “nerd stuff -> [creator]” on Liftoff, I can see a couple fields from the JSON with:
banned: (bool)
ban_expires: (date)
I think it would be nice to expose that data to those on the receiving end on login, along with the date (and a modlog reference if possible). Would that be a request for the instance theme, or for upstream Lemmy ui?
Upstream lemmy UI. I’m not sure if an email gets sent if the user registers with one. The modlog is public, so it’s visible there, but having a notification or some kind of UI element would be vastly preferred.
You are not logged in. However you can subscribe from another Fediverse account, for example Lemmy or Mastodon. To do this, paste the following into the search field of your instance: !politics@beehaw.org
In-depth political discussion from around the world; if it’s a political happening, you can post it here.
Guidelines for submissions:
Where possible, post the original source of information.
If there is a paywall, you can use alternative sources or provide an archive.today, 12ft.io, etc. link in the body.
Do not editorialize titles. Preserve the original title when possible; edits for clarity are fine.
Do not post ragebait or shock stories. These will be removed.
Do not post tabloid or blogspam stories. These will be removed.
Social media should be a source of last resort.
These guidelines will be enforced on a know-it-when-I-see-it basis.
You’re prioritizing economic systems over people. That’s my problem with voting for third parties in light of fascism echoing the 1920s and 30s.
This is a pretty moronic statement. The choice of economic system is fundamental to if and how you prioritize people. The choice of capitalism is literally the choice to not prioritize people, but to prioritize property, and the interests of those who have power and will protect and hoard that property.
You should honestly actually learn something about the rise of fascism in Nazi Germany and fascist Italy. For the love of all that is humane, read Fascism and Big Business by Daniel Guerin. YOU are buying into exactly that repeat of history you are using to fearmonger. Other, less reactionary liberals were absolutely instrumental to giving the fascist liberals power in both places, as they have proven over and over and over and over again that they will always do. There was—and is—absolutely no electoral or even legal solution to the problem of fascism. Literally the only thing that could have—and should have—stopped the fascists was organized labor and an organized left taking violent, direct action against them (Hitler and Goebbels both even admitted this explicitly).
While you are busy attacking the left—exactly as fascists do—and protecting those liberals who are literally upholding fascism (which is already here and has been for a long time), some of us are promoting the only thing that will save us from it: organizing, taking actual action, building liberation movements, and using liberal electoralism for the only good thing it can accomplish for the working class: getting people’s attention and broadcasting the messages that’ll get them to wake up, toss it in the bin, and move on to doing shit that’ll directly improve our lives.
Also, while you weren’t looking, you literally voted for a fascist in the last presidential election. Gotta love the promoting and subjugating oneself to Mussolini to save oneself from Hitler galaxy-brained liberal strategy of self-preservation.
Look, my take is that you are trying to combat fascism on philosophical terms, while I’m saying there is an even more pressing violence threatening people on a real level by taking steps that we know — at this moment in time — make it more likely to ending up with Republicans having power.
We don’t seem to be seeing things eye-to-eye, and you don’t seem to be able to hold this conversation without ad hominem attacks, so I’m going to check out.
Final note: I’m going to go back to my day, and forget about your condescension and nastiness because… well, I can. But if I see you talking this way to anyone else here (and I don’t just mean heated discussion), there will be consequences.
Have a nice day, and please be(e) respectful of everyone here.
I mention direct action vs. you wanting to rely on electoralism and yet you claim I am the one “combating on philosophical terms”. Ironic.
This is why you have voted for fascists and will continue to do so. You believe they are constrained to a single party, and that the other liberals aren’t supporting them in nearly everything they do. Again, educate yourself. You referenced the 1930s, yet you clearly have not studied how fascism actually operated then. Or how it operates now.
I see you don’t know what an ad hominem attack is. Everything I’ve said here is related to the content of your arguments. Criticism of your ignorance and ideology and how they manifest in your comments is not ad hominem. Pointing out how you support fascism by the agenda you are pushing and the very way you’ve implied you vote isn’t ad hominem. At least if you’re going to threaten people for calling you out, have some understanding of the accusations you are making of them first.
You’re right, that I haven’t been respectful in the sense of civility politics. But that started with you, shitting on anyone (including myself) who doesn’t vote for your favorite brand of the uni-party. My vote isn’t a “protest vote”, and yeah: fuck you for being disrespectful enough to call it that. Better start by banning yourself.
You were banned for 7 days for being unnecessarily confrontational and you come back and immediately pick another fight with a moderator? Why do you treat no one here with good faith? This isn’t a place to assume malicious negative intent. If you think the person is mislead speak your peace without insulting them, or even better try to educate them. If you can’t do either, this isn’t the space for you.
No? I continued an exchange where that mod had already replied to me. (Didn’t even realize they were a mod until they threatened me with “consequences” further on, by the way.)
Did you also miss the point that the mod was being just as insulting, from the start? I literally just pointed it out in the comment you replied to.
Did you miss where that moderator “assumed malicious negative intent” from me? Here, I’ll help:
Did you miss where I did, indeed, try to educate them? Let me help: every comment I’ve made. You might, in particular, like the part where I started with:
You banned me for 7 days (I guess—see below) for exactly the same kind of shit, and you’re really bad at judging these situations. But it’s good I have Big Brother admin stalking my comments to see if I follow the dictates of civility. Very cool.
EDIT: BTW, the only indication of being banned is that you can’t login; it just silently fails, as if there’s some kind of problem submitting the page. And then going to your own profile and seeing “banned” across the top. And no indication of whether it’s temporary or permanent, and no message from the system about why. Just FYI for when you do it again.
I really don’t have the time to be stalking anyone. I’m here because your comments were reported, yet again. For the record, I didn’t ban you the last time, but I will share your feedback on a limited UI. I wish I was in control of that, but it’s unfortunately a limitation of lemmy- the modlog is public, by the way, so if you find yourself banned you can check it to see why.
The reason I’m here is because this is the fourth time I’ve been involved in chats with moderators about what to do with you. Help me out here, because many people don’t seem to like the way you’re behaving.
Here’s how I see your interactions:
You have a strong, and frankly from what I’ve seen often correct viewpoint and you like to chime in with it. This in and of itself is not a bad thing, but the way that you’re interacting with other users really just isn’t particularly nice. You call them names, you escalate, you assume that they’re out to get you or that if they don’t share your beliefs that they are less than you. I’m not particularly interested in playing the “who started it” game, because you didn’t try to diffuse the situation and that would go a long way demonstrating good faith. The moderator here did, they explicitly checked out after things got heated. They told you to have a nice day, and you still had to come back swinging.
What am I missing here? What am I misinterpreting?
Pushing back on liberalism—and particularly its attack on the left—is, indeed, going to piss off a lot of liberals. Notice how in this conversation all I had to do was mention that I hope someone runs in the Green Party for ballot access, and that I will probably vote for them, in order for someone to go on the attack. Should I just start reporting that shit when it happens? Will you ban this moderator if I report them instead of clapping back? Is that how I get the authorities on this server to stop siding with the liberals for being liberal?
In terms of helping you, I’ll also refer back to your own statement:
This, right here, looks an awful lot like tone policing to me, when there’s a hell of a lot of actual content and argument I made above in response to a liberal being insulting when I said I will vote for someone other than a Democrat. Perhaps being an admin of a site like this isn’t a great fit for folks who want to grease squeaky wheels and discipline anyone who disagrees with a moderator or with some of the general user base of a community.
Or, if that’s too challenging a line to walk, IDK maybe Beehaw should just ban political discussion and go to straight cat pics and hobbies. That’s unfortunately what a lot of families and professional environments come to when they can’t handle matters getting heated over literal life-and-death issues.
EDIT: I forgot to address the “de-escalation” part. They escalated above. Then they actually escalated in the same comment where they decided to bail. That is the very comment where they claimed I am “trying to combat fascism on philosophical terms”. Then they didn’t even just check out, but threatened me as a moderator with “consequences”. You seriously call that “de-escalating”? Is “de-escalation” to you just a cheap way to get the last word and tell someone that they are superficial and order them to shut the fuck up? (Taking notes as a moderator of /c/socialism myself, by the way. “What’s good for the goose,” I guess…)
This isn’t about sides, and I’m not sure how do communicate that to you. Our documents talk in depth about how this is a public space and we’re asking for a certain kind of behavior to your fellow user. I simply do not care if you two disagree - I care about how you disagree.
You’re pulling up other things I’ve said in order to start a fight with me when I’m asking for your help to understand what I’m missing. I cannot find any way to interpret this with good faith. Why are you fighting me instead of helping me to understand the bias you abuse me of? You’re treating me as someone attacking you even when I directly ask for your help and I just can’t see how anything else I’m going to say will change that. I’m timing you out for 2 weeks. If you come back and continue to be confrontational it’s likely to be permanent. If you don’t understand why I’m timing you out, you probably shouldn’t bother coming back, because I’m exhausted trying to explain what we’re trying to do here and it might just not be the space for you.
Meta-comment: I made an edit significantly after submitting my other reply. Didn’t want to bifurcate the discussion by putting its content in this comment, but don’t know if you’d already read the other one. So this is just to let you know about the update in case you’ve already marked it as read.
@Gaywallet@beehaw.org is that true? From the “nerd stuff -> [creator]” on Liftoff, I can see a couple fields from the JSON with:
I think it would be nice to expose that data to those on the receiving end on login, along with the date (and a modlog reference if possible). Would that be a request for the instance theme, or for upstream Lemmy ui?
Upstream lemmy UI. I’m not sure if an email gets sent if the user registers with one. The modlog is public, so it’s visible there, but having a notification or some kind of UI element would be vastly preferred.
It does not.