A homeless man refusing long-term care, a woman with severe obesity, grieving widows. Each euthanasia request sparked debate among Canadian doctors and nurses struggling with the ethics of one of the most permissive laws globally on the practice.
Good. They should be questioning harder. As someone who is disabled and in this vulnerable group my question is this. If the Government wants me to exist why am I expected to live on less than $12000/year? That’s less than half of extreme poverty for a single person in my province. Yet this is my sole income.
I am not permitted, even if I could, to work or volunteer for more than 10h/week or make more than $6900/year or I lose my CPP. I do not qualify for the disability tax credit because I am not disabled in the correct way yet I am deemed unfit for work by multiple doctors and the CPP office due to physical disability from cancer. I have 3 elementary aged kids and worked from age 14 to 18 part time and 18 to 42 full time when I got really sick and became disabled. I paid taxes and saved money. I spent our life savings surviving cancer 400kms from my home at the nearest hospital that could treat me and spent a small amount building a massive garden and greenhouse on land donated to us by family.
I served my fellow man as a paramedic for 15 years as well as other positions in different fields. Those afforded me no “pension” because paramedicine is a highly skilled yet low paying job with little to no benefits at my time of employment. I pay everything out of pocket because I do not have medical, dental or eye care coverage. I grow as much food as I can so my kids don’t starve because I can’t afford to buy it. I ignore my own health to keep them fed and housed. If I am “caught” or turned in for doing physical work at home regardless of my health I will likely lose my CPP. I have to do it though, I have no choice. If we hadn’t been literally given this house we would be homeless. If we didn’t raise food we would be very hungry. If we didn’t have family supporting us I’m not sure where we would be but we would certainly be a larger demand on the system than we are now.
I have a disabled sister and stories like yours have guided my voting my entire life. Disability can happen to anyone and the rules around it are brutal/should be criminal.
I’m going to donate to my local food bank today because you’ve reminded me of how hard people have it.
Also thank you for being a paramedic, I agree that they don’t get the recognition and benefits they deserve. It’s a hard and dangerous job, with tough hours too.
ETA: I have now made that donation to the food bank.
Honest question: I thought Canadian healthcare is subsidized? How did you go through your entire life’s savings from illness? And why don’t you now have medial, dental, or vision coverage? This totally sounds like American healthcare, but I’m surprised to hear it in a Canadian context.
And I’m no way doubting you, just to be clear. I was just wondering if you could educate my ignorant, dumb ass.
I had to travel 400 km one way (250 freedom units) to surgery and treatments and couldn’t drive every day because I was all messed from the meds and radiation and stuff. That also would be 8hrs driving per day plus an hour of treatments which made me very sick. So… a hotel, meals, travel to see my family when not getting treatments (my youngest kids were 2.5 the oldest was 5), medications, ambulance trips, travel to see various doctors, parking, physical therapy costs there is a lot not covered by our healthcare system, then also home costs bills , rent, car payments, all the usual shit But no employment because I was paralyzed chest down for 8 months and hadn’t worked for a year before that due to this illness.
Medical coverage in Canada means you won’t get a bill from the hospital or your doctor. That’s it. We buy all our own medications, pay for dentistry and vision care on a personal level. We pay for ambulances and specialty services not covered by the “system” sometimes even crazy priced specialty medications if not “approved” in our area. In fact in many cases we even pay out of pocket to have paperwork completed on our behalf for things like government programs aka “disability”. Many jobs offer these benefits but being disabled I obviously do not qualify that way as I could not work and had just changed jobs when I fell ill, meaning I hadn’t gained employer benefits at my new job yet.
The other replies spell some of it out, but there are some things I should note so you have a broader picture.
Some provinces have pharmacare so after a max deductable (based on income) your medicines are free. If you are disabled you can also apply for a provincial form that makes all medicines free (no max starting deductable)
If you have a provincial disability designation you can get dental, eyeware, drugs, therapy, devices needed covered by a special provincial health insurance. The person you asked may not have been aware of this, or they live in a province that has a higher threshokd of what constitutes disability.
(The reason I say unaware is their statement about $6800 max earnings is not correct)
The only downside is you don’t have a list of what is covered, you have to submit the cost or try for preapproval. Why it is a secret about what is covered is a mystery…I can only assume to stop people reading through and taking advantage of free stuff??
If you have cancer and out of work their is a cancer fund that supplements your income. However they look at previous years earnings to determine eligibility, so if you were healthy then suddenly got sick, rather than slow decline in earnings, you have no funding available because of high amount on last tax return. You would have to wait till the following year when you file a low income tax return to get help.
It’s Complicated. The short version is, acute care (hospitalization and such) is covered by the government. Chronic care is not covered. Traveling to another location for treatment that isn’t available locally effectively isn’t covered (Ontario has a joke of a reimbursement system that will give you back maybe 10% of what you spent if you’re lucky, not sure about other provinces). Medication is covered only for some segments of the population (now starting to expand to the entire population for certain types of drugs). Dental is now covered for some segments of the population, but not all. Vision care has never been covered, except for the elderly. Prosthetics and assistive devices are mostly not covered (some of the most basic things may be, but not, for instance, powered wheelchairs). And there’s some variation from province to province, because health care is a provincial responsibility.
You can be bankrupted by needing to travel for care or needing expensive meds, in other words, but you won’t have to pay if you’re in a car accident and get taken to the local hospital.
Actually I just looked into this for my wife. $6800 is the max before you having to call CRA/CCP about it. $19K is the cutoff where they deem you may not need CPP. You call them in between those numbers and they can review if full CPP is still required or if adjustments should be made. Don’t get me wrong the CPP amount plus $19K is still a low income…but you may be able to earn a bit more if capable.
The discussion around MAID in Canada is obviously complicated, but there’s something that’s pretty obvious: the system seems to be set up for people who don’t have the money or resources to explore other options. To be blunt, it looks like a way to save costs. Instead of providing better healthcare, mental health support, or improving people’s lives, the program seems to give them an easy out—especially for those who are struggling and don’t see any other way forward. It’s kind of scary when you think about how vulnerable people could feel like this is their only option just because they can’t afford better care. If doctors could prescribe money, friends, enforce therapy, or a dietary coach/trainer, it seems like a lot of these cases would be solved.
At the same time, trying to make suicide illegal is ridiculous. People are going to make that decision for themselves no matter what the government says. It’s a fundamental choice over your own life, and no law can stop someone from doing it if they really want to. What MAID does is offer a more humane, less traumatic way to do it, and that’s important for those who need it. So in that sense, it’s a good thing. It just feels like the bigger problem is how we’re getting people to that point in the first place.
The Canadian government doesn’t seem to want to deal with the real problems that push people to feel like they have no choice but to die. Instead of making euthanasia the easy answer, they should be working harder to fix the system so fewer people feel like that’s their only option.
I know America is fucked – and, indeed, per capita suicide rates in the United States, where it’s almost entirely illegal, are much higher than in Canada – but what the heck is going on up there, yall?
I have seen the other side. Friends dad got a terminal cancer diagnosis–too far along to be able to treat. He had done very well in life, so funds were not an issue. He chose MAID because he said “why would I want one more month of this pain and suffering to continue.” We put animals down that are beyond help and suffering out of compassion…why would we not extend that courtesy to those who no longer want to go through it.
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Good? That’s the sort of thing that should never ever be easy.
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Yeah, pretty much.
And it should make you question everything about the situation except the wishes of the person involved.
Good. They should be questioning harder. As someone who is disabled and in this vulnerable group my question is this. If the Government wants me to exist why am I expected to live on less than $12000/year? That’s less than half of extreme poverty for a single person in my province. Yet this is my sole income.
I am not permitted, even if I could, to work or volunteer for more than 10h/week or make more than $6900/year or I lose my CPP. I do not qualify for the disability tax credit because I am not disabled in the correct way yet I am deemed unfit for work by multiple doctors and the CPP office due to physical disability from cancer. I have 3 elementary aged kids and worked from age 14 to 18 part time and 18 to 42 full time when I got really sick and became disabled. I paid taxes and saved money. I spent our life savings surviving cancer 400kms from my home at the nearest hospital that could treat me and spent a small amount building a massive garden and greenhouse on land donated to us by family.
I served my fellow man as a paramedic for 15 years as well as other positions in different fields. Those afforded me no “pension” because paramedicine is a highly skilled yet low paying job with little to no benefits at my time of employment. I pay everything out of pocket because I do not have medical, dental or eye care coverage. I grow as much food as I can so my kids don’t starve because I can’t afford to buy it. I ignore my own health to keep them fed and housed. If I am “caught” or turned in for doing physical work at home regardless of my health I will likely lose my CPP. I have to do it though, I have no choice. If we hadn’t been literally given this house we would be homeless. If we didn’t raise food we would be very hungry. If we didn’t have family supporting us I’m not sure where we would be but we would certainly be a larger demand on the system than we are now.
Yet I can qualify for MAID easily.
They want us dead.
Question it.
I am so sorry for your situation.
I have a disabled sister and stories like yours have guided my voting my entire life. Disability can happen to anyone and the rules around it are brutal/should be criminal.
I’m going to donate to my local food bank today because you’ve reminded me of how hard people have it.
Also thank you for being a paramedic, I agree that they don’t get the recognition and benefits they deserve. It’s a hard and dangerous job, with tough hours too.
ETA: I have now made that donation to the food bank.
Honest question: I thought Canadian healthcare is subsidized? How did you go through your entire life’s savings from illness? And why don’t you now have medial, dental, or vision coverage? This totally sounds like American healthcare, but I’m surprised to hear it in a Canadian context.
And I’m no way doubting you, just to be clear. I was just wondering if you could educate my ignorant, dumb ass.
I had to travel 400 km one way (250 freedom units) to surgery and treatments and couldn’t drive every day because I was all messed from the meds and radiation and stuff. That also would be 8hrs driving per day plus an hour of treatments which made me very sick. So… a hotel, meals, travel to see my family when not getting treatments (my youngest kids were 2.5 the oldest was 5), medications, ambulance trips, travel to see various doctors, parking, physical therapy costs there is a lot not covered by our healthcare system, then also home costs bills , rent, car payments, all the usual shit But no employment because I was paralyzed chest down for 8 months and hadn’t worked for a year before that due to this illness.
Medical coverage in Canada means you won’t get a bill from the hospital or your doctor. That’s it. We buy all our own medications, pay for dentistry and vision care on a personal level. We pay for ambulances and specialty services not covered by the “system” sometimes even crazy priced specialty medications if not “approved” in our area. In fact in many cases we even pay out of pocket to have paperwork completed on our behalf for things like government programs aka “disability”. Many jobs offer these benefits but being disabled I obviously do not qualify that way as I could not work and had just changed jobs when I fell ill, meaning I hadn’t gained employer benefits at my new job yet.
Thanks, everyone, for the education. This was very helpful, and I learned a lot.
The other replies spell some of it out, but there are some things I should note so you have a broader picture.
Some provinces have pharmacare so after a max deductable (based on income) your medicines are free. If you are disabled you can also apply for a provincial form that makes all medicines free (no max starting deductable)
If you have a provincial disability designation you can get dental, eyeware, drugs, therapy, devices needed covered by a special provincial health insurance. The person you asked may not have been aware of this, or they live in a province that has a higher threshokd of what constitutes disability. (The reason I say unaware is their statement about $6800 max earnings is not correct) The only downside is you don’t have a list of what is covered, you have to submit the cost or try for preapproval. Why it is a secret about what is covered is a mystery…I can only assume to stop people reading through and taking advantage of free stuff??
If you have cancer and out of work their is a cancer fund that supplements your income. However they look at previous years earnings to determine eligibility, so if you were healthy then suddenly got sick, rather than slow decline in earnings, you have no funding available because of high amount on last tax return. You would have to wait till the following year when you file a low income tax return to get help.
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It’s Complicated. The short version is, acute care (hospitalization and such) is covered by the government. Chronic care is not covered. Traveling to another location for treatment that isn’t available locally effectively isn’t covered (Ontario has a joke of a reimbursement system that will give you back maybe 10% of what you spent if you’re lucky, not sure about other provinces). Medication is covered only for some segments of the population (now starting to expand to the entire population for certain types of drugs). Dental is now covered for some segments of the population, but not all. Vision care has never been covered, except for the elderly. Prosthetics and assistive devices are mostly not covered (some of the most basic things may be, but not, for instance, powered wheelchairs). And there’s some variation from province to province, because health care is a provincial responsibility.
You can be bankrupted by needing to travel for care or needing expensive meds, in other words, but you won’t have to pay if you’re in a car accident and get taken to the local hospital.
Yikes, I’m so sorry you’re in this situation. There’s way too much of a gap between government-disabled and employer-disabled.
Actually I just looked into this for my wife. $6800 is the max before you having to call CRA/CCP about it. $19K is the cutoff where they deem you may not need CPP. You call them in between those numbers and they can review if full CPP is still required or if adjustments should be made. Don’t get me wrong the CPP amount plus $19K is still a low income…but you may be able to earn a bit more if capable.
https://www.canada.ca/en/services/benefits/publicpensions/cpp/cpp-disability-benefit.html
expand the sunstantial gainful work section
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The discussion around MAID in Canada is obviously complicated, but there’s something that’s pretty obvious: the system seems to be set up for people who don’t have the money or resources to explore other options. To be blunt, it looks like a way to save costs. Instead of providing better healthcare, mental health support, or improving people’s lives, the program seems to give them an easy out—especially for those who are struggling and don’t see any other way forward. It’s kind of scary when you think about how vulnerable people could feel like this is their only option just because they can’t afford better care. If doctors could prescribe money, friends, enforce therapy, or a dietary coach/trainer, it seems like a lot of these cases would be solved.
At the same time, trying to make suicide illegal is ridiculous. People are going to make that decision for themselves no matter what the government says. It’s a fundamental choice over your own life, and no law can stop someone from doing it if they really want to. What MAID does is offer a more humane, less traumatic way to do it, and that’s important for those who need it. So in that sense, it’s a good thing. It just feels like the bigger problem is how we’re getting people to that point in the first place.
The Canadian government doesn’t seem to want to deal with the real problems that push people to feel like they have no choice but to die. Instead of making euthanasia the easy answer, they should be working harder to fix the system so fewer people feel like that’s their only option.
I know America is fucked – and, indeed, per capita suicide rates in the United States, where it’s almost entirely illegal, are much higher than in Canada – but what the heck is going on up there, yall?
I have seen the other side. Friends dad got a terminal cancer diagnosis–too far along to be able to treat. He had done very well in life, so funds were not an issue. He chose MAID because he said “why would I want one more month of this pain and suffering to continue.” We put animals down that are beyond help and suffering out of compassion…why would we not extend that courtesy to those who no longer want to go through it.
If we are a society that believes in the individual’s right to choose, what could be a more fundamental choice than to welcome or decline existence?
The local humane society won’t even euthanize pets for about the last decade because it’s too hard on the staff.