Project IDX is an entirely web-based workspace for full-stack application development, complete with the latest generative AI (powered by Codey and PaLM 2), and full-fidelity app previews, powered by cloud emulators.
What if your dev experience was entirely in the cloud?
These days, launching applications means navigating an endless sea of complexity. We felt this pain at Google, so we started Project IDX, an experimental new initiative aimed at bringing your entire full-stack, multiplatform app development workflow to the cloud.
Project IDX gets you into your dev workflow in no time, backed by the security and scalability of Google Cloud.
Project IDX lets you preview your full-stack, multiplatform apps as your users would see them, with upcoming support for built-in multi-browser web previews, Android emulators, and iOS simulators.
As a Vim fanatic, I can’t say I’ll ever feel comfortable working in a browser, but some parts of IDX seem interesting. I wonder what the implications are for proprietary code.
I do think it solves an interesting problem where you’re working on your desktop and decide to move to your laptop and continue working on the same codebase, but don’t want to commit early so you can pull down the changes to your laptop.
I do think it solves an interesting problem where you’re working on your desktop and decide to move to your laptop and continue working on the same codebase, but don’t want to commit early so you can pull down the changes to your laptop.
Ever since I’ve discovered Parsec (or any other remote desktop streaming solution that isn’t TeamViewer), I’ve switched from having to drag around a heavy laptop that still can barely run Unreal to just having a Surface, remotely WoL my desktop at home through a pooling solution that does not require any public facing service (my NAS is just pooling a website API for a trigger. Not efficient, but secure), and just connecting through Parsec.
RDP could also work I’d wager, but then I’d have to set up a VPN and I’m not really that comfortable with anything public facing. But if anyone asks me now for good laptop recommendations, I always recommend going the “better desktop for the same price, and small laptop for remote”.
I’ve yet to find a place where I couldn’t work comfortably through Parsec, it being optimized for gaming means the experience is pretty smooth, and it works pretty well even at lower network speeds. You still need at least 5-10Mbps, but if you have unlimited mobile data you’re good to go almost anywhere.
I’ve never had any issues, it’s pretty well optimized and it’s miles ahead of TeamViewer. So, in my experience, it is pretty fast - if your net can handle it. And if you have lower bandwidth then it’s pretty good at optimizing for speed instead of quality, if that’s what you want.
Oh, you’re right, I’ve totally forgotten about that. It was one of the (many) reasons why I gave up my last attempt to finally switch away from windows and to Linux.
It’s not so much committing early, but pushing early. You don’t want to push early, then rebase your commits, and then force-push to a repository other developers are using too.
But as I’ve learned from all of the responses in this thread, there are many ways of avoiding this 🙂
Hell no, no way I’d trust Google with my code. Personal or otherwise.
Ditto. But at the risk of playing devil’s advocate, if you were writing free software code you were going to stick on a code forge somewhere anyway, would you still be against it?
Are there Google services that only work in Chrome? I don’t use any of them, so I don’t know. I do know Google is generally less annoying than Microsoft in that department.
how this? through Firefox I experience ms websites the same as with edge. google websites? experience is full of small differences from chrome
Firefox is my main browser. In my experience, Microsoft services don’t work at all on Firefox. I can’t say I use much of either company’s services, but Google tends to be more lax in some departments. For example, the Google Pixel is the only Android device that allows you to securely unlock the bootloader and install another operating system on it, rather than forcing you to root the device.
I’m not a fan of either company, but I get the impression Google is less actively hostile toward their customers than Microsoft. For the most part.
i work for a company that produces dotnet software. I’m my comments you’ll find this, and that firefox is my browser of choice. so we obviously manage access via ad, we use azure, etc. . when it comes to develop Linux native code, i fire up my vm, and I can even use the teams web version on firefox (tbh, only chat though) , so
In my experience, Microsoft services don’t work at all on Firefox
i don’t really know where this is coming from. would you like to elaborate?
the idea that ms is hostile towards its customers is so apple propaganda from some 20 years ago… I mean, a very old refrain… just please stop beating this now decomposed horse.
had u written something like
ms like apple like google/alphabet are private ruthless faceless us corporations, ready to suck the soul of anything that got one
that, i could agree on.
anyways, peace, obviously.
i don’t really know where this is coming from. would you like to elaborate?
As I said, I don’t deal with a lot of Microsoft or Google services, though I do run my email through Microsoft Exchange. It took me roughly three hours to figure out how to download the Microsoft Office executable from the Microsoft website. I tried everything on Firefox, Brave, Chrome, even on my Mac. In the end, I needed Microsoft Edge to get it. I don’t remember the exact details because this was 2 or so years ago, but requiring a particular version of a Blink-based browser just to download Microsoft Office seems…unnecessary.
I remember needing to use Brave for Microsoft Teams, but I could be remembering wrong. When I think of Microsoft being actively hostile toward their customers, I think of about ten years ago when Microsoft tried to prevent Xbox owners from sharing physical disk games with the Xbox One, essentially killing preowned games (not that they went through with it). Of course, Apple is an easier target than Microsoft for customer-hostile behavior. Frankly, these megacorporations all blend together for me.
I don’t have any particular feelings about Microsoft, and after using Windows for 20 years, I don’t have any major complaints with it (from memory; it’s been a while), aside from the obvious. If there’s any particular corporation I despise, that would have to be Amazon.
on mac i can’t honestly argue about anything. apple policies, practices, hw, sw, services, etc. are something i try to stay as far away as possible. dunno if it’s still the same, but as an example VLC on mac was practically nothing and broken compared to linux and win version, because, you know, quicktime (or what it was/is called the native media player). also is it possible that mac makes really hard to access ms services (or that ms makes really hard to access their services on a mac? although they already make sw for that os… mmh…)?
anyways, just for completeness, on win I had no trouble managing office (again, don’t recall what that iteration was called, but it was the one that allowed you to install office in 5 machines with one license) with firefox.
have a nice day
I use mpv on macOS and haven’t had any trouble to speak of. But you might have installed VLC from the App Store, which is a common mistake—unless you’re installing Apple’s own software, you probably shouldn’t use the App Store. It usually only carries inferior versions of the software to comply with Apple’s terms, haha.
I very rarely use Microsoft Office nowadays, but once it’s installed, it’s (mostly) fine? I’ve heard from a coworker that there are some significant missing features in some software in that suite. I just remember struggling to find the page to download the Setup.exe file. I went to the exact same page in Microsoft Edge and a download button that wasn’t there in any other browser suddenly appeared! Maddening! This was a 5 or 10-license verison, I think.
I think a lot of comments are looking at this thing the wrong way. This is not a feature that is designed to make things easier or nicer for developers. The target audience for this is managers.
Managers don’t want you to have a unique configuration for “your workflow”, they want a uniform workflow that they can just plug you into. They want to replace the unique person that is you with a corporate drone representation of you, as they have done with so many jobs already. When they can streamline your work down to " here is a ticket, push that button and you are ready to go", they reduce the rampup time of putting someone new into your seat to a fraction of what it was before.
A good manager knows that an employee is productive whenever they’re comfortable. With that said, I agree. This is an excuse for upper management and C-suite executives to make employee-hostile policies.
Instead of buying developers a powerful workstation and letting them do install their own software and create workflows that they’re comfortable with, they can be handed a Chromebook and told to start producing code like the code monkey they’re seen as.
The “benefits” will be touted as:
Cheaper hardware costs.
Developers don’t need a powerful machine to run tooling or compile software, and cloud IDEs and build servers are pay-as-used. The reasoning would be: paying $300 for a Chromebook and $25 monthly is cheaper than $1200 for a new machine every few years.
Reduced support burden.
If developers don’t need to install their own software, they won’t need to submit requests to IT.
Infrastructure security.
Less software is less surface area. Since all the developer’s software is hosted in the cloud, their computers don’t need to run anything but a VPN, web browser, and restricted user permissions.
“Productivity”
Browsing Lemmy on company time? Not anymore! Your development machines are distraction-free, and we made sure of that with our root CA and enterprise policy settings.
I don’t see how this could be positive for any Software developer in the long run.
I totally see how this could be positive for CEO/CTO, Project Managers, in the long run, and I see a few short term advantages for Software developers.
Let’s be clear, I saw that coming since Microsoft bought Github, and I am scared by the direction this is taking.
The end goal is to move more and more control and power to non-software people about Software development.
By forcing every developer to not use their own tools this will have a lot of advantage for CEO/CTOs but this is terrible for software developers:
telemetry: they will try to find a formula to assess who are the best performer in a team. And as with SEO, any formula could be gamed, the best at this game, will not be the best software developers, but the one that will learn how to cheat.
global team tooling enforcement: vim vs emacs etc… ? Forget about it, the only way to work on a project will be via this unique allowed editor.
assets protection: impossible to download the code on your local computer to use external tools on it. The only way to have analysis tools will be via these “allowed” analysis tools. This will make code analysis and experimentation a lot more difficult.
Locked by promoting vendor-specific applications. As you will focus to make your code/app/product work only for Google Cloud for example, you will naturally use Google-Cloud-only features that will make your code difficult (or impossible) to move to another Cloud provider, or god-forbid, host your product on a non-cloud or private made cloud.
And I can think of other possible drawbacks but my comment is already long enough.
Is it good technically though? Or is it just really popular because it’s so well maintained and extensible?
I think the main reason vscode is so popular is, because there aren’t really good native alternatives (e.g. I wouldn’t compare e.g. vim because it’s kind of a different target audience).
So maybe something like zed or so will take the reign of this class of editors, but we’ll see, I just hope it’s not yet another electron or DOM based editor, DOM is bad enough in the web already…
My entire point is that you aren’t forced into using that cloud crap for normal development. And you aren’t forced into any specific IDE. You can choose whatever IDE you want unless your employer mandates something specific.
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This has been a solved problem for decades. SSH.
Ever since I’ve discovered Parsec (or any other remote desktop streaming solution that isn’t TeamViewer), I’ve switched from having to drag around a heavy laptop that still can barely run Unreal to just having a Surface, remotely WoL my desktop at home through a pooling solution that does not require any public facing service (my NAS is just pooling a website API for a trigger. Not efficient, but secure), and just connecting through Parsec.
RDP could also work I’d wager, but then I’d have to set up a VPN and I’m not really that comfortable with anything public facing. But if anyone asks me now for good laptop recommendations, I always recommend going the “better desktop for the same price, and small laptop for remote”.
I’ve yet to find a place where I couldn’t work comfortably through Parsec, it being optimized for gaming means the experience is pretty smooth, and it works pretty well even at lower network speeds. You still need at least 5-10Mbps, but if you have unlimited mobile data you’re good to go almost anywhere.
Thanks for sharing about Parsec, it looks interesting. How is the speed? They talk about it being fast but is it?
I’ve never had any issues, it’s pretty well optimized and it’s miles ahead of TeamViewer. So, in my experience, it is pretty fast - if your net can handle it. And if you have lower bandwidth then it’s pretty good at optimizing for speed instead of quality, if that’s what you want.
Turns out it won’t share a Linux machine.
Oh, you’re right, I’ve totally forgotten about that. It was one of the (many) reasons why I gave up my last attempt to finally switch away from windows and to Linux.
Well, it’s what I use with Neovim, but not everyone uses a terminal-based editor. But other users had some other suggestions too: https://lemmy.comfysnug.space/comment/620209
Fortunately for me, VSCode has support for running the backend remotely via SSH.
What’s bad about committing early? Do people not know about --amend?
It’s not so much committing early, but pushing early. You don’t want to push early, then rebase your commits, and then force-push to a repository other developers are using too.
But as I’ve learned from all of the responses in this thread, there are many ways of avoiding this 🙂
There is no such thing as committing early.
If I’m not able to self-host it a la VS Codium, then it’s very much a honeypot.
Like for stealing your code?
Also vscodium vs vscode-server. What’s the difference? I’ve heard the ladder has Spyware or something?
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Mmh. Don’t like that
Hell no, no way I’d trust Google with my code. Personal or otherwise. Let me guess this would work only in Chrome.
Ditto. But at the risk of playing devil’s advocate, if you were writing free software code you were going to stick on a code forge somewhere anyway, would you still be against it?
Are there Google services that only work in Chrome? I don’t use any of them, so I don’t know. I do know Google is generally less annoying than Microsoft in that department.
this is the gateway to this
how this? through Firefox I experience ms websites the same as with edge. google websites? experience is full of small differences from chrome
Edit:formatting
Microsoft don’t allow Bing chat to run in anything but Edge. I don’t know if there are others, but that’s the one I’ve noticed recently.
true, but bing chat isn’t all ms services. although I’ve heard of plug-ins that could do that, dreadful as it is just the idea
Firefox is my main browser. In my experience, Microsoft services don’t work at all on Firefox. I can’t say I use much of either company’s services, but Google tends to be more lax in some departments. For example, the Google Pixel is the only Android device that allows you to securely unlock the bootloader and install another operating system on it, rather than forcing you to root the device.
I’m not a fan of either company, but I get the impression Google is less actively hostile toward their customers than Microsoft. For the most part.
i work for a company that produces dotnet software. I’m my comments you’ll find this, and that firefox is my browser of choice. so we obviously manage access via ad, we use azure, etc. . when it comes to develop Linux native code, i fire up my vm, and I can even use the teams web version on firefox (tbh, only chat though) , so
i don’t really know where this is coming from. would you like to elaborate?
the idea that ms is hostile towards its customers is so apple propaganda from some 20 years ago… I mean, a very old refrain… just please stop beating this now decomposed horse. had u written something like
ms like apple like google/alphabet are private ruthless faceless us corporations, ready to suck the soul of anything that got one
that, i could agree on. anyways, peace, obviously.
As I said, I don’t deal with a lot of Microsoft or Google services, though I do run my email through Microsoft Exchange. It took me roughly three hours to figure out how to download the Microsoft Office executable from the Microsoft website. I tried everything on Firefox, Brave, Chrome, even on my Mac. In the end, I needed Microsoft Edge to get it. I don’t remember the exact details because this was 2 or so years ago, but requiring a particular version of a Blink-based browser just to download Microsoft Office seems…unnecessary.
I remember needing to use Brave for Microsoft Teams, but I could be remembering wrong. When I think of Microsoft being actively hostile toward their customers, I think of about ten years ago when Microsoft tried to prevent Xbox owners from sharing physical disk games with the Xbox One, essentially killing preowned games (not that they went through with it). Of course, Apple is an easier target than Microsoft for customer-hostile behavior. Frankly, these megacorporations all blend together for me.
I don’t have any particular feelings about Microsoft, and after using Windows for 20 years, I don’t have any major complaints with it (from memory; it’s been a while), aside from the obvious. If there’s any particular corporation I despise, that would have to be Amazon.
on mac i can’t honestly argue about anything. apple policies, practices, hw, sw, services, etc. are something i try to stay as far away as possible. dunno if it’s still the same, but as an example VLC on mac was practically nothing and broken compared to linux and win version, because, you know, quicktime (or what it was/is called the native media player). also is it possible that mac makes really hard to access ms services (or that ms makes really hard to access their services on a mac? although they already make sw for that os… mmh…)? anyways, just for completeness, on win I had no trouble managing office (again, don’t recall what that iteration was called, but it was the one that allowed you to install office in 5 machines with one license) with firefox. have a nice day
I use mpv on macOS and haven’t had any trouble to speak of. But you might have installed VLC from the App Store, which is a common mistake—unless you’re installing Apple’s own software, you probably shouldn’t use the App Store. It usually only carries inferior versions of the software to comply with Apple’s terms, haha.
I very rarely use Microsoft Office nowadays, but once it’s installed, it’s (mostly) fine? I’ve heard from a coworker that there are some significant missing features in some software in that suite. I just remember struggling to find the page to download the
Setup.exefile. I went to the exact same page in Microsoft Edge and a download button that wasn’t there in any other browser suddenly appeared! Maddening! This was a 5 or 10-license verison, I think.All your codebase are belong to us.
Cloud is a plague.
So cancer + a different form of cancer = …?
I really don’t get why you want an editor to be based on DOM, it feels just like sluggish … cancer…
I think a lot of comments are looking at this thing the wrong way. This is not a feature that is designed to make things easier or nicer for developers. The target audience for this is managers.
Managers don’t want you to have a unique configuration for “your workflow”, they want a uniform workflow that they can just plug you into. They want to replace the unique person that is you with a corporate drone representation of you, as they have done with so many jobs already. When they can streamline your work down to " here is a ticket, push that button and you are ready to go", they reduce the rampup time of putting someone new into your seat to a fraction of what it was before.
A good manager knows that an employee is productive whenever they’re comfortable. With that said, I agree. This is an excuse for upper management and C-suite executives to make employee-hostile policies.
Instead of buying developers a powerful workstation and letting them do install their own software and create workflows that they’re comfortable with, they can be handed a Chromebook and told to start producing code like the code monkey they’re seen as.
The “benefits” will be touted as:
Cheaper hardware costs.
Developers don’t need a powerful machine to run tooling or compile software, and cloud IDEs and build servers are pay-as-used. The reasoning would be: paying $300 for a Chromebook and $25 monthly is cheaper than $1200 for a new machine every few years.
Reduced support burden.
If developers don’t need to install their own software, they won’t need to submit requests to IT.
Infrastructure security.
Less software is less surface area. Since all the developer’s software is hosted in the cloud, their computers don’t need to run anything but a VPN, web browser, and restricted user permissions.
“Productivity”
Browsing Lemmy on company time? Not anymore! Your development machines are distraction-free, and we made sure of that with our root CA and enterprise policy settings.
I don’t see how the last point changes anything compared to the current situation
I don’t see how this could be positive for any Software developer in the long run. I totally see how this could be positive for CEO/CTO, Project Managers, in the long run, and I see a few short term advantages for Software developers.
Let’s be clear, I saw that coming since Microsoft bought Github, and I am scared by the direction this is taking. The end goal is to move more and more control and power to non-software people about Software development.
By forcing every developer to not use their own tools this will have a lot of advantage for CEO/CTOs but this is terrible for software developers:
And I can think of other possible drawbacks but my comment is already long enough.
I mean, 2 and 4 have been true already for quite some time in my experience.
Things have been headed this way for a loooong time. That said, unless I can self-host something like this, I’m not interested.
Eclipse che has missed the train by tying itself to red hat.
No.
Aren’t we past that point?
VS Code is Electron based and it can even be deployed in the cloud. We are talking about one of the most popular IDEs.
Is it good technically though? Or is it just really popular because it’s so well maintained and extensible?
I think the main reason vscode is so popular is, because there aren’t really good native alternatives (e.g. I wouldn’t compare e.g. vim because it’s kind of a different target audience).
So maybe something like zed or so will take the reign of this class of editors, but we’ll see, I just hope it’s not yet another electron or DOM based editor, DOM is bad enough in the web already…
Unfortunately, yes.
You are talking about transmitting every bit of code you write to the internet. Go ahead if you want that, I don’t
I am not saying otherwise. But do we still have a say?
Yes. It is still entirely possible to run VSCode or VSCodium locally without any of that cloud crap.
True, I myself prefer VS Codium but how many people use it? And some site like Coursera have VSCode on the web and it can’t be changed to VSCodium.
My entire point is that you aren’t forced into using that cloud crap for normal development. And you aren’t forced into any specific IDE. You can choose whatever IDE you want unless your employer mandates something specific.
Also VSCodium is entirely Open Source.
What if your dev environment could disappear completely one day when we get bored of maintaining it after it doesn’t immediately displace github?
That would be annoying.
this
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As if Google hasn’t scraped open GitHub projects for longer than Microsoft has owned GitHub.
So, like 18 months before this gets added to the Google graveyard?
We really should start a community specifically for bets on when a newly launched Google project will be shut down.
Yummy yummy give me your codei !!