It seems like it has become popular to hate on JIRA. In fact, a good friend of mine sent me this, which is what triggered this post: (if you're the owner of the image, reach out to me and I'll attribute it properly) I'm usually…

Nope, I absolutely hate Jira and everything that I needed to do in it at my old job. Luckily for most stuff we had other issue trackers (multiple, but that’s another issue), but whenever I had to touch Jira or any other Atlassian tool, it was a bad time.

Having used some alternatives, I hate Jira.

Total opposite - tried alternatives and didn’t work out. I’m a dept lead so I’m managing 3 small teams that interact with 7 other teams.

Fuck Basecamp.

Asana is very spaghetti.

Trello is workable but for small team. And we already use trello-esque features in Jira.

I don’t understand the jira hate. But I don’t love it and won’t switch unless given a good reason. All the integrations like Confluence and ground level details like tracking commits/PRs and big picture organization… It works for me and my team.

Having used some alternatives (e.g. Version 1), I love Jira.

What I hate is arbitrary bullshit from the Jira site admins who don’t even use Jira themselves and don’t understand why their policies are stupid.

What are those?

What alternatives do you like?

crowsby
link
fedilink
51Y

I agree with the author in that balancing actual work vs. meta-work like writing tickets/documentation/scoping tickets is always going to be a pain point regardless of the project management system in play. Jira can be fine in that regard, but it also gives PMs & managers an opportunity to tinker with things and “improve” workflows in the glorious name of adding value.

It reminds me of the old quote about democracy: “Jira is the worst form of project management software except for all the others”.

o_d [he/him]
link
fedilink
71Y

This blog post is just strawmanning for a tool that rightfully deserves to be criticized.

The other common problem is a non-Manager - a “manager” who doesn’t talk to you and doesn’t know much about what you’re working on. They just want to check a dashboard, see all green lights, report to their managers that the light is green, and collect their pay check.

I know this person. They were a manager. They were my last manager. Thank the compiler I got moved to a different team when the org realized said manager had no idea what they were doing, shuffled some seats around and removed this manager from the company.

This is some Jira propaganda.

Jira itself is just systematic negging. Change my mind.

(Ok I’m being kinda sarcastic here but not by a lot)

ryan
link
fedilink
131Y

Jira is a customizable ticketing platform. I manage a different ticketing platform at my company (ServiceNow), and I see a lot of crossover in system complaints.

  • People ask for a tightly controlled workflow and then get mad when they can’t freely move between states. There will always be exception cases so don’t lock down your states in Jira unless it’s for some audit reason.
  • Too many custom mandatory fields to enforce some sort of process compliance. If you have a process you want people to follow, do your job and educate and have recurring trainings on the damn process. The system can’t do the educating for you, and if everything is locked down and mandatory all the time it means the ticket can’t even be worked on in phases, or the requester responded to quickly, without having to spend five minutes on data entry - for every ticket.
  • People try to use a particular ticket type for something it’s not meant to be used for and get mad when it doesn’t work. This seems to be less of a concern on Jira than ServiceNow but use the correct ticket types for what you’re doing and you won’t have a problem.
  • People hate the underlying processes put in place, and blame the system. This is what the article is addressing.

I do have to agree with this article as a whole. There are a lot of managers who see what Jira can do and expect employees to do it all without considering whether it will be worthwhile. Especially if you’re not running agile and sprints, Jira isn’t the tool for everyone. Most companies have a Microsoft 365 license and Planner works well for team task tracking in general (and it’s integrated with Teams).

At the same time, some employees just hate the idea of ticketing at all and rage against the idea of being held accountable for their tasks, and sucks to be them I guess.

Nah I hate jira because it’s so damn slow to do any action

I’m okay with tickets, it’s the price we pay, but there is a serious lack of “in and out” with jira. As a dev, I want to spend as little time as possible in a software like jira.

koreth
link
fedilink
English
21Y

A bit off-topic, but why do people still insist on writing its name in all caps? That was the original name, granted, and you can still find it here and there in the tool, but it has been called “Jira” for years now.

I have a love-hate relationship with Jira. Overall, I guess we are able to make good use of it in my team and it does actually help keep track my work (both for myself and my manager). Most of the complaints I might have against Jira are more about dealing with Scrum BS than Jira itself.

As for the software itself, the only thing I really dislike is text formatting. I wish Jira just used Markdown, but instead they have their own WYSIWYG editor. Which would be fine if it worked properly… Almost every time I create a ticket or comment, text formatting gets messed up after posting (especially numbers and bullet points).

The text formatting is also inconsistent with other Atlassian. Bitbucket and Confluence have some support for Markdown but they each do it differently. Using all three of these Atlassian products should feel like a unified experience, and in many ways it is, but text formatting is an inconsistent buggy mess.

If you’re on a Mac or Linux you can use this one-liner to convert Markdown to Jira with the great j2m utility:

pbpaste | j2m -j --stdin | pbcopy

For Linux replace pbcopy and pbpaste with xclip -selection clipboard and xclip -selection clipboard -o, respectively. The Jira code will be on your clipboard and you can then paste it into the ticket.

Wow this is really cool, I will have to try this to see if it works. I currently waste too much time dealing with Jira messing up my formatting.

Nah, I also hate Jira. It’s slow, bloated, complicated, and has 1000x features I, as a developer, don’t need.

But then again, I also hate the manager that makes me use it in ways that frustrate me.

But then again, the reason my manager loves Jira and wants me to use it that way, is that they can run a bunch of automated reports like “We did X work this week, consuming Y hours (Or points or whatever) and we predict that we will be done in Z timeframe”.

Buuuuuut, that’s all bullshit. Garbage data in, garbage reports out. Jira gives managers the CONFIDENCE that they know what’s going on, instead of just talking to developers, having conversations, etc. As it turns out, programming is hard, and doesn’t have clear A->B->C predictability. So those tasks that are left? non-exhaustive. Those hours we did? Didn’t take into account the thousand little things that didn’t go into the backlog (And would take longer to add it than to just do the work and ignore the extra time spent on the task). That burndown chart? Completely useless.

Jira is used to skirt around the complexity of software development. It enables bad management to exist much easier, because it allows said managers to not engage with the team or product in any meaningful way, then to push up the chain “progress reports” that are meaningless, then, when deadlines are passed, managers get to blame it on the developers for not tracking enough work in Jira.

Jira enables bad management.

On the other hand, bad managers abuse every tool they are given, and bad managers existed before Jira, just instead of automated reports, they had email reports and hand tracked hours. So whatever, the tool was built to service a broken industry anyway.

lemmyvore
link
fedilink
English
61Y

JIRA is just an issue tracker. Whatever they’re doing to you with it is not its fault. 🙂 You’re supposed to use it to document and assign work items (stories, tasks, bugs). What has to be done, progress, duration estimates (in days!), attach whatever extra info is needed (links, files) and use the comments to keep each other in the loop and clear obstacles (blockers, dependencies etc.) It’s fairly straightforward when used correctly.

You have to have some way of tracking development. If it weren’t JIRA it would be something else – but JIRA is commonly used because it’s flexible and can adapt to many ways of doing things and to lots of the aspects of software development.

JIRA is just an issue tracker.

Nope, I mean at it’s core, yes it is, but it’s used for sooooooo much more than that. It enables management from a far distance, and that disencentivices managers from doing their job.

I get the premise, that tools just exist and it’s us that put our own biases in them. But that looses a lot of nuance when a tool is specifically built for a purpose, such as oversight, tracking, and data collection. These design decisions take an “issue tracker” far away from what Trello, or a whiteboard with stickies on it for that matter, does.

It is a grave mistake to think that it’s just an issue tracker, and that’s all it can be. I’ve been in this industry long enough not to fall for that con. And it is a con, when someone manipulates you using a tool that is designed to make manipulation easier (I’M not telling you to point every story even if it doesn’t make sense. But you know… Jira wants it, it’s just… Outa my hands…).

Nah, Jira is for managers, not developers, and is far more than a simple issue tracker.

I love when a comment gets more upvotes than the original post

ono
link
fedilink
English
21Y

deleted by creator

stephenc
link
fedilink
51Y

We used JIRA effectively at my last job, the things that made it work for us:

  • stop adding shitloads of required fields. Title, description, branch, priority (defaulted), status (defaulted), type (bug/feature). We might have had some others, but that was all I remember being required.
  • stop writing shitty descriptions: spend more time writing something that your co-worker can use. Respect their time enough to try to include enough detail for them to actually use the ticket. Be available to answer questions when they are assigned a ticket you wrote.
  • you don’t need extremely granular statuses: the functional role of the assignee is enough to determine what “state” it’s in, trying to codify a unidirectional flow of tickets is maddening and overly complicated. Work is messy, it flows back and forth, you do not need a “rejected by qa” status. Just leave it open and reassign to the developer with a comment. Managers find out when individuals are submitting half-assed work on a regular basis, you don’t need JIRA for that (unless you need metrics to fire them… different problem).

I agree with the premise of the article, JIRA is a communication tool, not a management tool.

My team does a simple Kanban with sticky notes on a white wall, like in Silicon Valley TV show.

Create a post

Welcome to the main community in programming.dev! Feel free to post anything relating to programming here!

Cross posting is strongly encouraged in the instance. If you feel your post or another person’s post makes sense in another community cross post into it.

Hope you enjoy the instance!

Rules

Rules

  • Follow the programming.dev instance rules
  • Keep content related to programming in some way
  • If you’re posting long videos try to add in some form of tldr for those who don’t want to watch videos

Wormhole

Follow the wormhole through a path of communities !webdev@programming.dev



  • 1 user online
  • 1 user / day
  • 1 user / week
  • 1 user / month
  • 1 user / 6 months
  • 1 subscriber
  • 1.21K Posts
  • 17.8K Comments
  • Modlog