Contributing back is besides the point. GPL is infectious, so all of their code which they aren’t releasing the source of is also considered GPL. So unless they release all of the source code they are still non compliant and I have to imagine they’re wel aware of this.
I think they’ll still be compliant as long as they offer their source to customers. The GPL doesn’t require that you make source available to anyone, but to anyone that you distribute binaries to. From the GNU website:
One of the fundamental requirements of the GPL is that when you distribute object code to users, you must also provide them with a way to get the source.
Source: Quick GPLv3 Guide under the More Ways for Developers to Provide Source section.
Of course the GPL also allows redistribution of source code, and Red Hat seems to want to threaten customers who do so.
Yeah, preventing your users from redistribution this is where they might get into trouble and the GPL license would be retracted and thus they would have pirated the software. But someone would need to prove it in court and IBM has a couple of good lawyers.
When I say we abide by the various open source licenses that apply to our code, I mean it.
So he’s saying that Red Hat intends to abide by licenses such as the GNU GPL, and yet…
Simply rebuilding code, without adding value or changing it in any way, represents a real threat to open source companies everywhere. This is a real threat to open source…
Red Hat is claiming that redistribution (which is explicitly allowed and encouraged by the GPL) is a threat to open source. They are also threatening to penalize customers who do exercise the rights granted to them by the licenses that Red Hat claims that they will “abide by”.
According to Red Hat the GNU GPL is a threat to open source. And they think this won’t make people angry?
Simply rebuilding code, without adding value or changing it in any way, represents a real threat to open source companies everywhere. This is a real threat to open source…
This is beginning to sound like they’re calling open source piracy.
“Noooo, you can’t copy it. That’s not fair.”
Actually, they’re beginning to sound a lot like Microsoft. It’s their job to complain about FOSS but still contribute.
Hm. Perhaps Red Hat is trying to take Microsoft’s place. In that case…
“Simply ignoring licenses, without acknowledging their terms and dismissing open source practices while still contributing to the FOSS community, represents a threat to closed source companies everywhere. This is a real threat to closed source…”
Yo, Microsoft. Don’t worry about the Activision acquisition. You have new competition to acquire.
Sarcasm aside, this is what we should have expected once they were acquired by IBM. You know, that company which has only ever behaved in an ethical manner for the last… century? Some fun history there. People should read up about it. Especially the '30s and '40s. And then jump to the '80s and '90s where they seem to still be stuck because they’re kind of pulling a “pirates of Silicon Valley” thing here.
This is beginning to sound like they’re calling open source piracy.
No, they’re pointing to things in the past like what Amazon was doing to Elastic, MongoDB, Redis, and others where they (legaly) took the others companies code and made it available in a very simple way an AWS for free so that people would buy other services from AWS instead of paying Elastic and the others - who do do the development job - for hosting the databases. This destroyed their business model so they had to change their licenses from Open Source licenses to closed source licenses. So in this case Red Hat is in the same boat as Elastic and they are right that this is a threat to open source companies everywhere.
So, is this something they could have solved using a different licensing strategy? Seems like they should have seen this as a possibility before banking their business strategy off of it.
Normally you start a open source project to scratch your own itch and to share it with other enthusiasts. Only once you decide to make it a business it’s kind of difficult to keep it Open Source and to make money, therefor they make it closed source and everyone is mad like this time with Red Hat.
… feel that much of the anger from our recent decision around the downstream sources comes from either those who do not want to pay for the time, effort and resources going into RHEL or those who want to repackage it for their own profit. This demand for RHEL code is disingenuous.
Then remove all open source code from your code base. I don’t mean some, I mean all. Let’s see whose code you’re repackaging for your own profit.
I can’t help but notice how similar their phrasing is to Spez trying to justify why Reddit has yanked the rug out from under their third party app developers.
I stopped using rhel/centos after 7 personally, the rolling update seems weird. I’m fine with the AWX model of being the beta testers for the paid product. It is a little different for an OS though as AWX has many features that sometimes are randomly broken on each “release”, but at least there are defined releases. I’m sort of giving up on Redhat, it’s wildly expensive, they have good products but not worth the costs they sell at and I’m tired of trying to constantly navigate this song and dance.
We had rhel at university and I just really couldn’t get warm with it. By that time I’ve used SuSE, Debian and Gentoo at home but somehow it was just to weird :D. On the other side I have no problems with Fedora, so I guess it was just in my head.
Not surprising that RHEL is now trashing every FLOSS license it’s beholden to. They’ve violated the licenses and I genuinely someone over at GNU or something gets to goosing them with lawyers.
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Yeah rip read hat. Thats a big no no in the Linux World…
Contributing back is besides the point. GPL is infectious, so all of their code which they aren’t releasing the source of is also considered GPL. So unless they release all of the source code they are still non compliant and I have to imagine they’re wel aware of this.
I think they’ll still be compliant as long as they offer their source to customers. The GPL doesn’t require that you make source available to anyone, but to anyone that you distribute binaries to. From the GNU website:
Source: Quick GPLv3 Guide under the More Ways for Developers to Provide Source section.
Of course the GPL also allows redistribution of source code, and Red Hat seems to want to threaten customers who do so.
Yeah, preventing your users from redistribution this is where they might get into trouble and the GPL license would be retracted and thus they would have pirated the software. But someone would need to prove it in court and IBM has a couple of good lawyers.
So he’s saying that Red Hat intends to abide by licenses such as the GNU GPL, and yet…
Red Hat is claiming that redistribution (which is explicitly allowed and encouraged by the GPL) is a threat to open source. They are also threatening to penalize customers who do exercise the rights granted to them by the licenses that Red Hat claims that they will “abide by”.
According to Red Hat the GNU GPL is a threat to open source. And they think this won’t make people angry?
This is beginning to sound like they’re calling open source piracy.
“Noooo, you can’t copy it. That’s not fair.”
Actually, they’re beginning to sound a lot like Microsoft. It’s their job to complain about FOSS but still contribute.
Hm. Perhaps Red Hat is trying to take Microsoft’s place. In that case…
“Simply ignoring licenses, without acknowledging their terms and dismissing open source practices while still contributing to the FOSS community, represents a threat to closed source companies everywhere. This is a real threat to closed source…”
Yo, Microsoft. Don’t worry about the Activision acquisition. You have new competition to acquire.
Sarcasm aside, this is what we should have expected once they were acquired by IBM. You know, that company which has only ever behaved in an ethical manner for the last… century? Some fun history there. People should read up about it. Especially the '30s and '40s. And then jump to the '80s and '90s where they seem to still be stuck because they’re kind of pulling a “pirates of Silicon Valley” thing here.
No, they’re pointing to things in the past like what Amazon was doing to Elastic, MongoDB, Redis, and others where they (legaly) took the others companies code and made it available in a very simple way an AWS for free so that people would buy other services from AWS instead of paying Elastic and the others - who do do the development job - for hosting the databases. This destroyed their business model so they had to change their licenses from Open Source licenses to closed source licenses. So in this case Red Hat is in the same boat as Elastic and they are right that this is a threat to open source companies everywhere.
edit: Some more background info about this problem: https://techcrunch.com/2018/11/29/the-crusade-against-open-source-abuse/
So, is this something they could have solved using a different licensing strategy? Seems like they should have seen this as a possibility before banking their business strategy off of it.
Normally you start a open source project to scratch your own itch and to share it with other enthusiasts. Only once you decide to make it a business it’s kind of difficult to keep it Open Source and to make money, therefor they make it closed source and everyone is mad like this time with Red Hat.
Then remove all open source code from your code base. I don’t mean some, I mean all. Let’s see whose code you’re repackaging for your own profit.
I can’t help but notice how similar their phrasing is to Spez trying to justify why Reddit has yanked the rug out from under their third party app developers.
Spez actually tried to justify it?
I only saw him blaming “power-hungry” moderators for being “greedy”, and apollo “for profiting millions” from reddit’s api.
I stopped using rhel/centos after 7 personally, the rolling update seems weird. I’m fine with the AWX model of being the beta testers for the paid product. It is a little different for an OS though as AWX has many features that sometimes are randomly broken on each “release”, but at least there are defined releases. I’m sort of giving up on Redhat, it’s wildly expensive, they have good products but not worth the costs they sell at and I’m tired of trying to constantly navigate this song and dance.
We had rhel at university and I just really couldn’t get warm with it. By that time I’ve used SuSE, Debian and Gentoo at home but somehow it was just to weird :D. On the other side I have no problems with Fedora, so I guess it was just in my head.
Man, trying to build a moat around Free Software requires a level of entitlement that is just mind-bending.
Related: Somebody on Mastodon asked to explain to them the RedHat situation as if it was a drag community beef , and as a screenshot for the lazy:
Ooh ooh, let me make some popcorn before I read this!
Not surprising that RHEL is now trashing every FLOSS license it’s beholden to. They’ve violated the licenses and I genuinely someone over at GNU or something gets to goosing them with lawyers.
From what i get,
It seems like they are pissed at oracle specifically,
Selling a oracle branded rhel clone with minor tweaks and a oracle certified sticker.
And the other downstream distros are just collateral damage.
Obviously wouldn’t make it better
(But imo more understandable)