Kernel 6.8-rc2 debuts after very robust discussion about 'inodes'
Linus Torvalds criticized a Google contributor on the Linux kernel mailing list for his suggestions about filesystems.
The debate centered around the use of inodes as unique identifiers for metadata on a filesystem.
Torvalds’s strong language and tone in his response to the contributor were reminiscent of his past flippant attacks, for which he previously apologized.
I’d better read something on the inode uniqueness problem than this. I’ve already got in trouble with GNU tar because of duplicated file identifiers in overlayed FS.
Torvalds really worked on his attitude and it shows. It’s pretty evident from his interviews that he doesn’t want the attention due to brash behavior. Even this news article is hyperbolic. He is just trying to get a point across. He’s pretty much self restrained otherwise.
Torvalds worked on his behaviour and he’s much better now than he used to be. I suppose he still has to work on it but it’s a clear improvement. Also he knows what he is talking about and he’s not a Nazi.
Linus might be an asshole but he’s actually competent. Elon Musk is a fucking joke of a person. Not to mention Linus hasn’t done anything that compares to things like Elon suing his way into being a “founder” of Tesla and kicking out the actual founders.
From what I’ve seen: Linus didn’t ever typically rip into first time contributors, it was usually always the people that he either expected better of or people that just kept submitting crap after crap.
Still sucks to be on the receiving end of it though.
No. He couldn’t. I have yet to read a Linus rebuke that wasn’t him educating someone as to how and whether they should have known better due to experience … or arrogance (systemd).
You copied that function without understanding why it does what it does, and as a result your code IS GARBAGE.
AGAIN.
[…]
Debate continued for some time, in a cooler tone, with Torvalds offering suggestions on what he felt would be a better approach to the issues Rostedt hoped to address.
Harsh tone (in only two instances?), but he still invested in offering suggestions 🤷
Disagree. The hostility expresses frustration and indicates recognition of a long term pattern, and emphasizes the gravity of Torvalds’s observation.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m not pro-abuse – while the hostility does contribute to the content, that doesn’t mean it will have the desired effect. Some people get a fire lit under them when they experience that kind of feedback; others get defensive or heated or hurt, and those people are NOT motivated effectively – and it can cause lasting harm.
The key of it is: group B will not learn and grow from this approach; they’ll learn and grow from a more cool headed approach. Group A, however, will grow from either approach. Therefore, the cool headed approach is preferable.
Meh - I’m pretty sure Torvalds is just saying in public what thousands of other people were thinking quietly.
It sure is unpleasant to have your mistakes pointed out in public… but it’s a hell of a lot better than not even knowing you made a mistake at all which is usually what happens.
It would be better if Torvalds told the guy he’s an idiot in a private email but I’m not going to get worked up over that. Honestly I have a bigger problem with The Register making a headline out of it. The kernel mailing list is relatively private… this article is going to be attached to this poor engineer for the rest of his career. They should have omitted his name at least.
I don’t believe in this distinction. I am proud of my work. If I wasn’t, I would have almost no drive to deliver good or even any results. I like what I do.
So of course it becomes a difference if you tell me that there is a better way to do what I did (aka giving me something to improve) or if you tell me that my work is utter crap (aka taking away any positivity I had).
So yes, my code can be wrong or bad. But it’s still something I produced. So I prefer to not have it treated like a piece of shit.
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I’d better read something on the inode uniqueness problem than this. I’ve already got in trouble with GNU tar because of duplicated file identifiers in overlayed FS.
People talk about what a cunt Elon Musk is. Torvalds has been an abusive, condescending, contemptuous cunt for FAR longer.
Torvalds really worked on his attitude and it shows. It’s pretty evident from his interviews that he doesn’t want the attention due to brash behavior. Even this news article is hyperbolic. He is just trying to get a point across. He’s pretty much self restrained otherwise.
Most of what you just said was wrong.
When did he go off on you, then; and for which gaffe?
Haven’t seen Linus pay hush money to shut up sexual abuse allegations.
Torvalds worked on his behaviour and he’s much better now than he used to be. I suppose he still has to work on it but it’s a clear improvement. Also he knows what he is talking about and he’s not a Nazi.
Linus might be an asshole but he’s actually competent. Elon Musk is a fucking joke of a person. Not to mention Linus hasn’t done anything that compares to things like Elon suing his way into being a “founder” of Tesla and kicking out the actual founders.
Source? I’m genuinely curious
Edit: nevermind, found it
We would probably not be talking right now if not for him believe it or not!
Boom, Rostedt.
I’m pretty surprised it was this guy; he’s pretty senior and has a ton of experience.
Linus could have shown a bit of leniency this time.
From what I’ve seen: Linus didn’t ever typically rip into first time contributors, it was usually always the people that he either expected better of or people that just kept submitting crap after crap.
Still sucks to be on the receiving end of it though.
Linus does that only to experienced guys - not beginners. People who should know better.
No. He couldn’t. I have yet to read a Linus rebuke that wasn’t him educating someone as to how and whether they should have known better due to experience … or arrogance (systemd).
Lmao, I’ll need to remember this
Harsh tone (in only two instances?), but he still invested in offering suggestions 🤷
I expected more behind the verb “flaming”.
Well, “YOUR CODE IS GARBAGE” seems like flaming.
You, send the same message without this and it achieves exactly the same thing without the “taking it all out on someone” part 🤷
Disagree. The hostility expresses frustration and indicates recognition of a long term pattern, and emphasizes the gravity of Torvalds’s observation.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m not pro-abuse – while the hostility does contribute to the content, that doesn’t mean it will have the desired effect. Some people get a fire lit under them when they experience that kind of feedback; others get defensive or heated or hurt, and those people are NOT motivated effectively – and it can cause lasting harm.
The key of it is: group B will not learn and grow from this approach; they’ll learn and grow from a more cool headed approach. Group A, however, will grow from either approach. Therefore, the cool headed approach is preferable.
He stopped doing that a few years ago.
Breaking news: Linus Torvalds sends another email
Seriously though, I love to see the latest Linus Torvalds shouting match.
!linux@programming.dev
Meh - I’m pretty sure Torvalds is just saying in public what thousands of other people were thinking quietly.
It sure is unpleasant to have your mistakes pointed out in public… but it’s a hell of a lot better than not even knowing you made a mistake at all which is usually what happens.
It would be better if Torvalds told the guy he’s an idiot in a private email but I’m not going to get worked up over that. Honestly I have a bigger problem with The Register making a headline out of it. The kernel mailing list is relatively private… this article is going to be attached to this poor engineer for the rest of his career. They should have omitted his name at least.
I thought it was public, just relatively unknown. It’s been a long time since I’ve looked it up
I’m assuming that’s why they added “relatively”
Angry Linus is the best.
On the bright side, it looks (based on what I can tell) that things calmed down and the guy he was talking to took it fairly well.
If Linus “flamed” me, I’m putting it on my resume.
Maybe he realized that he is not his code; that his code can be wrong and he’s still okay.
If so, he’d be WAY out in front of many devs I’ve worked around.
I don’t believe in this distinction. I am proud of my work. If I wasn’t, I would have almost no drive to deliver good or even any results. I like what I do.
So of course it becomes a difference if you tell me that there is a better way to do what I did (aka giving me something to improve) or if you tell me that my work is utter crap (aka taking away any positivity I had).
So yes, my code can be wrong or bad. But it’s still something I produced. So I prefer to not have it treated like a piece of shit.
Proud of today’s code. Deeply ashamed of yesterday’s code. That is our lot in life. At least it shows us our development.
I would have liked a link to the LKLM thread. Usually they are quite informative