While 3rd party candidates aren’t even remotely viable until we get ranked choice voting; Anything that helps to pull centrist dems left is a good thing.
I’d pretty strongly disagree with that, if you mean actually causing centrist Dems to not vote for Biden.
I’d remind you that if all Green Party voters in Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, and Michigan in 2016 would have instead voted for Clinton, those states would have flipped, Hillary Clinton would be President right now, Roe v. Wade would still be intact, and many many many things would be very different.
Now, I won’t pretend that these kinds of hypotheticals are super meaningful (the Libertarian party obviously exists as a factor, for instance), but the fact of the matter is that voting for the Greens in a tight state can and has contributed to very real harm to people. Second-order effects really aren’t that complicated to understand.
I don’t mean it’s good for them to ride the whole race out, that is just a spoiler vote. But at this early point it’s good to have left leaning opponents out there to force democrats to answer questions that may be popular with the public but they wouldn’t ask themselves if they were running opposed.
If all Stein voters had voted for Clinton (which, even if the Green party weren’t running, they wouldn’t all have), then maybe Clinton would have won Michigan, and final EC result is still 290:248. The contests elsewhere either weren’t close enough, or didn’t have enough Green voters to matter. The Libertarians had a much bigger impact.
The national Democratic Party is the farthest left it’s been since before Watergate, and Biden has presided over the most progressive presidency since the Great Society. That’s due largely to the work of dedicated progressives and activists in the Democratic Party. A West run will tilt the election towards Trump and fracture the left for ten years or more. These were lessons that were all learned 23 years ago.
Pre-primary 3rd party candidates have their place. They can attend debates and can force their opponents to concede to popular ideas for fear of losing votes. Past that, yes they are just spoiler votes in our two party system.
Are you really blaming Nader for the 2000 shitshow?
Edit:
The national Democratic Party is the farthest left it’s been since before Watergate
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While 3rd party candidates aren’t even remotely viable until we get ranked choice voting; Anything that helps to pull centrist dems left is a good thing.
Absolutely not helpful for Democrats or democracy. This is a spoiler ticket that will help trump get elected. ,
obviously it’s not helpful for democrats: he’s running against them.
I’d pretty strongly disagree with that, if you mean actually causing centrist Dems to not vote for Biden.
I’d remind you that if all Green Party voters in Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, and Michigan in 2016 would have instead voted for Clinton, those states would have flipped, Hillary Clinton would be President right now, Roe v. Wade would still be intact, and many many many things would be very different.
Now, I won’t pretend that these kinds of hypotheticals are super meaningful (the Libertarian party obviously exists as a factor, for instance), but the fact of the matter is that voting for the Greens in a tight state can and has contributed to very real harm to people. Second-order effects really aren’t that complicated to understand.
I don’t mean it’s good for them to ride the whole race out, that is just a spoiler vote. But at this early point it’s good to have left leaning opponents out there to force democrats to answer questions that may be popular with the public but they wouldn’t ask themselves if they were running opposed.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_United_States_presidential_election#Results_by_state
If all Stein voters had voted for Clinton (which, even if the Green party weren’t running, they wouldn’t all have), then maybe Clinton would have won Michigan, and final EC result is still 290:248. The contests elsewhere either weren’t close enough, or didn’t have enough Green voters to matter. The Libertarians had a much bigger impact.
The national Democratic Party is the farthest left it’s been since before Watergate, and Biden has presided over the most progressive presidency since the Great Society. That’s due largely to the work of dedicated progressives and activists in the Democratic Party. A West run will tilt the election towards Trump and fracture the left for ten years or more. These were lessons that were all learned 23 years ago.
Pre-primary 3rd party candidates have their place. They can attend debates and can force their opponents to concede to popular ideas for fear of losing votes. Past that, yes they are just spoiler votes in our two party system.
Are you really blaming Nader for the 2000 shitshow?
Edit:
That’s still not left enough for me.
Still not left enough for me either but don’t let perfect be the enemy of better