You make it sound like they are on even somewhat equal footing. Israel is illegally annexing and destroying the home land of Palestinians with massive support from the west, and is effectively untouchable. Isnt that also super important to include in this discussion?
Sure Hamas is reacting violently, but that’s the only option they’re provided because Israel refuses to obey international law and no one with any real power has the stones to put the screws to Israel to stop it, because going after Israel is instantly portrayed as antisemitism.
Isnt that also super important to include in this discussion?
It definitely is. I am arguing against comments that simplify a complex situation.
Sure Hamas is reacting violently, but that’s the only option they’re provided
I doubt it’s the only option, others have had success against colonizers using different methods. And I also doubt that this violence is improving the situation of the Palestinians in any way.
Huh, so basically, if somebody gives you an Iron Dome installation, and then I start shooting rockets at you, you are going to shrug it off? You are a hypocrite, debating about stuff you clearly know very little about (from reading biased news sources, no doubt).
Hamas infiltrated Israeli territory and started shooting down unarmed civilians. You can be as peace-loving as you want (I, too, think Israel could’ve done more to progress peace with Palestinians), but to sum it up as (Hammas isn’t blameless, but Israel is responsible because it has more firepower is idiotic at best.
What’s happening right now is murder of innocent people, clear as day. If you want to seek excuses for the perpetrators, something is really wrong with you.
Go and read about the IDF broken bones policy. Better yet, go and watch the video of IDF soldiers holding a child down and breaking their legs for throwing rocks at the soldiers occupying their land.
Then think about how that was official IDF policy and carried out on a mass scale for decades.
I’m sorry, but the state of Israel are the clear and objective overall aggressors in this situation. When you have the balance of power by orders of magnitude and you are petty, vindicative, and abusive on the scale of fundamental human rights violations, you are going to get people willing to die to kill you. Israel brought this on themselves.
Justify this you cunt. Sorry I should call people cunts but the news coming out of Israel isn’t good. A ton of Israeli’s are dead and a ton of Palestinians are dead/going to die over this. Hamas achieved nothing but get scores of Palestinian and Israelis killed.
FAIR WARNING THIS IS EXTREMELY NSFW. IT IS THE RESULTS OF AN ATTACK ON A BOMB BUNKER. FILMED BY HAMAS THEMSELVES.
They started off the attack by launching thousands of rockets then they purposely attacked bomb bunkers where tons of civilians were grouped together and hiding. This is what you and the others are currently justifying.
HAMAS was always this violence this is not some sort of revolation or response to occupation. They want to genocide Jews not make Palestinian lives better. They came to power in Gaza strip through violence (against Palestinians and the people they elected).
No one is justifying attacks on civilians, but your assertion that this has absolutely nothing to do with occupation is absurd.
HAMAS is not a static group of guys that have been around for 40 years. They are continuously getting new members and recruits, and guess why people might be driven right into their arms? Maybe you start to hate the people who occupy your land, hold you down as a child and break your legs, and indiscriminately kill civilians and journalists during raids into your home.
The story here is very selectively presented to suit the points made by OP. So either OP is creating propaganda, or creating new propaganda. So are you, when you are talking about “well documented atrocities” out of context.
Hamas is making a stupid move. Palestinians have needed a Gandhi for generations and all they’ve gotten are violent clowns. Peace was so tantalizingly close in 2000 and Arafat blinked. It’s been all downhill from there. (Just to be clear, I don’t think the Israelis are innocent lambs in any of this—they’re clearly the oppressors—but the Palestinian response has made it hard to paint this as a clear good guys/bad guys situation.
Hamas is out there beheading kids and laughing about it on camera. They are slaughtering civilians and kidnapping others.
It was never about the occupation, all they care about is killing Jews. This isn’t about Palestine rights. Hamas never cared about Palestinians which is why they love to store ammo at the bottom of important buildings and launch rockets from apartment complexes.
Go read about the organizations history before you defend these actions. They violently took power of Gaza strip after losing an election.
Edit: Fediverse Nazis are out in full force today lol.
The fascinating thing about discussions of Israel and Palestine is that, no matter which side you’re on, the argument always boils down to: Their guy is just as bad as our guy.
But, Hamas aside, I find Israel’s actions as a state indefensible. That’s what separates the two here. Israel is a state sponsor of apartheid, and while some members of the Palestinian population are indeed terrorists, that doesn’t justify perpetrating of an apartheid.
Let me be very clear. Hamas is ISIS level bad. They are not slightly bad, Israel level bad, Russia/Iran level bad. They are religious fanatics who only care about genociding the Jews in the most violent and terrifying way possible.
Idk why you keep making excuses and bringing up Israels occupation. An occupation which is happening (for the most part) on an entirely different side of the country that has a completely different Palestine government, groups and organizations behind it.
Gaza is embargoed and walled up due to Israels fear of violence from Hamas which exactly what happened today. And it wasn’t always like that, the walls and the embargo were built due previous violent actions from Hamas.
Firstly, I have yet to see anyone say that they support Hamas’ actions. What they’ve recognized is that this was an entirely anticipated outcome from Israeli policy.
The reason that people make this observation is because it’s clear that Israel has meaningful agency here, and it’s not clear that Palestinians do. Israel has the option to pursue a genuine peace process or continue ethnically cleansing occupied territory. Conversely, Palestinians largely have the option to die quietly or violently.
I am entirely aware why people find criticism of Israel to be tasteless during an attack against Israel. That said, these attacks aren’t really a security failure or a policy failure in Israel. Periodic outbreaks of Palestinian violence are a part of an ongoing project of genocide. Restrict food and medicine > Face violence > Use it to justify culling young men and destroying basically all infrastructure assembled since last culling until the resistance is exhausted > Return to baseline abuse until enough Palestinian kids reach suitable age to launch a new attack and repeat the process.
As I said, the Israeli government – and by extension, the US government – have the power to interrupt this cycle. And if we really care about the lives of Israeli victims, we have a moral obligation to.
Firstly, I have yet to see anyone say that they support Hamas’ actions. What they’ve recognized is that this was an entirely anticipated outcome from Israeli policy.
Just look around in this thread… https://i.imgur.com/T9GowBS.png and it’s growing getting some pretty crazy straight up Nazi race shit also.
Now I’m sorta tired arguing the chicken or the egg with other people but now is a terrible time to try and justify this kind of behavior.
It’s almost like if for decades you wage war, acts of terrorism, and you state your goal is to kill everyone in a country, that country might treat you bad.
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You make it sound as if there wasn’t any violence from Hamas & Co during all this. I don’t think that’s helpful in a discussion.
You make it sound like they are on even somewhat equal footing. Israel is illegally annexing and destroying the home land of Palestinians with massive support from the west, and is effectively untouchable. Isnt that also super important to include in this discussion?
Sure Hamas is reacting violently, but that’s the only option they’re provided because Israel refuses to obey international law and no one with any real power has the stones to put the screws to Israel to stop it, because going after Israel is instantly portrayed as antisemitism.
It definitely is. I am arguing against comments that simplify a complex situation.
I doubt it’s the only option, others have had success against colonizers using different methods. And I also doubt that this violence is improving the situation of the Palestinians in any way.
Can you name a successful decolonization project that was nonviolent?
Funny how they just disappeared innit? They sounded so sure before!
Those who resist occupation using violence
Are not the moral equals of the violent occupiers
deleted by creator
Huh, so basically, if somebody gives you an Iron Dome installation, and then I start shooting rockets at you, you are going to shrug it off? You are a hypocrite, debating about stuff you clearly know very little about (from reading biased news sources, no doubt).
Hamas infiltrated Israeli territory and started shooting down unarmed civilians. You can be as peace-loving as you want (I, too, think Israel could’ve done more to progress peace with Palestinians), but to sum it up as (Hammas isn’t blameless, but Israel is responsible because it has more firepower is idiotic at best.
What’s happening right now is murder of innocent people, clear as day. If you want to seek excuses for the perpetrators, something is really wrong with you.
Man, fuck off with this bullshit.
Go and read about the IDF broken bones policy. Better yet, go and watch the video of IDF soldiers holding a child down and breaking their legs for throwing rocks at the soldiers occupying their land.
Then think about how that was official IDF policy and carried out on a mass scale for decades.
I’m sorry, but the state of Israel are the clear and objective overall aggressors in this situation. When you have the balance of power by orders of magnitude and you are petty, vindicative, and abusive on the scale of fundamental human rights violations, you are going to get people willing to die to kill you. Israel brought this on themselves.
Ah, the sweet sweet taste of anti-Israel propaganda… How long have you been drinking that?
The use of the term ‘propaganda’ implies that the story here is untrue.
However, Israel’s atrocities are exceedingly well-documented. That would make you a liar or willfully ignorant, either of which are intolerable.
Justify this you
cunt. Sorry I should call people cunts but the news coming out of Israel isn’t good. A ton of Israeli’s are dead and a ton of Palestinians are dead/going to die over this. Hamas achieved nothing but get scores of Palestinian and Israelis killed.FAIR WARNING THIS IS EXTREMELY NSFW. IT IS THE RESULTS OF AN ATTACK ON A BOMB BUNKER. FILMED BY HAMAS THEMSELVES.
They started off the attack by launching thousands of rockets then they purposely attacked bomb bunkers where tons of civilians were grouped together and hiding. This is what you and the others are currently justifying.
HAMAS was always this violence this is not some sort of revolation or response to occupation. They want to genocide Jews not make Palestinian lives better. They came to power in Gaza strip through violence (against Palestinians and the people they elected).
EXTREMELY NSFW YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED: https://twitter.com/MDeLaBroc1/status/1710547042269905146?s=20
No one is justifying attacks on civilians, but your assertion that this has absolutely nothing to do with occupation is absurd.
HAMAS is not a static group of guys that have been around for 40 years. They are continuously getting new members and recruits, and guess why people might be driven right into their arms? Maybe you start to hate the people who occupy your land, hold you down as a child and break your legs, and indiscriminately kill civilians and journalists during raids into your home.
The story here is very selectively presented to suit the points made by OP. So either OP is creating propaganda, or creating new propaganda. So are you, when you are talking about “well documented atrocities” out of context.
Exactly, and they are leveraging the power of the state to run an apartheid. That just can’t be ignored.
Hamas is making a stupid move. Palestinians have needed a Gandhi for generations and all they’ve gotten are violent clowns. Peace was so tantalizingly close in 2000 and Arafat blinked. It’s been all downhill from there. (Just to be clear, I don’t think the Israelis are innocent lambs in any of this—they’re clearly the oppressors—but the Palestinian response has made it hard to paint this as a clear good guys/bad guys situation.
Hamas is out there beheading kids and laughing about it on camera. They are slaughtering civilians and kidnapping others.
It was never about the occupation, all they care about is killing Jews. This isn’t about Palestine rights. Hamas never cared about Palestinians which is why they love to store ammo at the bottom of important buildings and launch rockets from apartment complexes.
Go read about the organizations history before you defend these actions. They violently took power of Gaza strip after losing an election.
Edit: Fediverse Nazis are out in full force today lol.
how is that a bad thing?
The fascinating thing about discussions of Israel and Palestine is that, no matter which side you’re on, the argument always boils down to: Their guy is just as bad as our guy.
But, Hamas aside, I find Israel’s actions as a state indefensible. That’s what separates the two here. Israel is a state sponsor of apartheid, and while some members of the Palestinian population are indeed terrorists, that doesn’t justify perpetrating of an apartheid.
Let me be very clear. Hamas is ISIS level bad. They are not slightly bad, Israel level bad, Russia/Iran level bad. They are religious fanatics who only care about genociding the Jews in the most violent and terrifying way possible.
Idk why you keep making excuses and bringing up Israels occupation. An occupation which is happening (for the most part) on an entirely different side of the country that has a completely different Palestine government, groups and organizations behind it.
Gaza is embargoed and walled up due to Israels fear of violence from Hamas which exactly what happened today. And it wasn’t always like that, the walls and the embargo were built due previous violent actions from Hamas.
Firstly, I have yet to see anyone say that they support Hamas’ actions. What they’ve recognized is that this was an entirely anticipated outcome from Israeli policy.
The reason that people make this observation is because it’s clear that Israel has meaningful agency here, and it’s not clear that Palestinians do. Israel has the option to pursue a genuine peace process or continue ethnically cleansing occupied territory. Conversely, Palestinians largely have the option to die quietly or violently.
I am entirely aware why people find criticism of Israel to be tasteless during an attack against Israel. That said, these attacks aren’t really a security failure or a policy failure in Israel. Periodic outbreaks of Palestinian violence are a part of an ongoing project of genocide. Restrict food and medicine > Face violence > Use it to justify culling young men and destroying basically all infrastructure assembled since last culling until the resistance is exhausted > Return to baseline abuse until enough Palestinian kids reach suitable age to launch a new attack and repeat the process.
As I said, the Israeli government – and by extension, the US government – have the power to interrupt this cycle. And if we really care about the lives of Israeli victims, we have a moral obligation to.
Just look around in this thread… https://i.imgur.com/T9GowBS.png and it’s growing getting some pretty crazy straight up Nazi race shit also.
Now I’m sorta tired arguing the chicken or the egg with other people but now is a terrible time to try and justify this kind of behavior.
Yes and no, they are behaving like Azeris. This is not acceptable.
It’s almost like if for decades you wage war, acts of terrorism, and you state your goal is to kill everyone in a country, that country might treat you bad.