There’s been a lot of buzz here about the Fairphone here lately, especially with it coming to the US.
On paper, it seems rather nice. Ethically sourced, privacy friendly stock ROM.
But the skeptic in me does say, “there is no ethical consumption under capitalism.”
What are the drawbacks of Fairphone that seem to be shunned away, or less discussed both by the company and community at large? Why shouldn’t I just buy a Pixel 7a and put GrapheneOS on it instead?
Re ethical consumption, my opinion is, if you don’t absolutely need a new phone (broken beyond use) don’t get a new one. And then when you do get a “new” phone, get a second hand one. Fairphone may be “ethical” but it’s still marketing to get you to spend money on a new device. Reusing one will always be more ethical.
I’m too worried about am getting a second hand phone. Who knows what the seller isn’t telling me about it.
I bought a laptop second hand and it’s only like a year old, but after getting it home you start to notice the problems. Like, randomly the keyboard stops responding.
Tech is too expensive to take risks on, but I try to keep my tech until it’s unusable.
The problem I’m facing at the moment, is that everything seems to be breaking at the same time.
I have used a few second hand phones and they’ve pretty much always been fine fortunately. I see it could be a bit of a risk, but if the initial cost is so much lower, does that factor in to lowering the risk too? If I get a second hand phone and it lasts me 3 years instead of 4, but costs 250 instead of 600, I’d say it’s worth it. I’ve also used an ex-corporate second hand laptop made in 2014 for 4 years from 2018 to 2022, and only after that did it start to die. It was a Thinkpad, which may have helped it’s longevity. This is circumstantial evidence I understand, but in my opinion the lower cost and less environmental damage weighs better for me than maybe having to clean/replace the keyboard or battery. Buying second hand products originally known for their high quality construction or longevity probably helps too.
Whilst looking recently for second hand pixel 6 phones, I noticed a lot of them were hardly used, some even brand new and unopened, but still being sold at 200-280 gbp instead of new price 400+ for new.
I guess my concern is getting a second hand phone and it lasting 2 months. I’m not opposed to some things second hand, but I’m not interested in second hand tech that cost any decent amount of money.
i wrote this comment on another post recently, i think you might find some value. the thread has some good discussion. note that i regret using a fairphone, but i dont regret supporting the company. in a ‘lesser than two evils’ sense, fairphone is MUCH less evil.
the fairphone company makes grand promises of 7 years support, despite historically really doing 2-4 years of support very badly. to the point where when the fairphone 4 released, it was going to take so long for it to make an android upgrade that a FOSS group CalyxOS ended up making the port for them. being this late for security and feature releases is insane, especially when they make claims outside of SoC OEM support periods despite knowing that they can’t provide those updates. the fairphone 3 even launched on the same day as android 10 but instead of quickly porting over, they instead ported over their next line of phone (fairphone 3+)
the phone removed expandable storaged and a headphone jack, with obscene pricing for storage upgrades and at the same time as they released their unrepairable line of wireless products. this is just begging for e-waste.
the claims of being ethically sourced are not universal to the whole phone, the fair trade gold standard is limited to some parts that they source.
they have hardware for an extra SIM slot on the fairphone 4, but made it unusable to the user. clearly just an anti-consumer move.
there are other reeasons, and you’ll also notice im not providing sources here. a lot of this is readily available info online and frankly im tired, i hope you can search these things up yourself if you want to confirm. i’m saying these things in good faith if that makes you feel more comfortable. there are reasons to consider the fairphone, but know that if you’re doing this for a ‘long-lasting’ phone, then you’re only getting that on the hardware side and even then you’re vastly overpaying for the value of what you receive.
i still support fairphone in their journey to making mainstream fully modular phones with readily available replacement parts and open schematics. as a big ‘fuck you’ to smartphone producing companies, the fairphone does its’ job magnificently and provides an excellent example of why samsung, apple, google etc are lying scum when they say these things aren’t possible. if a small company like fairphone have been doing it since their infancy, we shouldn’t believe that big tech can’t.
EDIT: i was wrong about the expandable storage, please read replies to get see some further discussion.
to answer your other questions, i do have a used pixel with grapheneOS now. much better phone, much better experience and much better piece of mind. i use a good all-covering case so nobody asks what phone i use, because i’d hate to be a billboard for google.
the biggest selling point of the fairphone for me was its’ unique form factor. i was asked what phone i had A LOT. when i took the back off, people’s mind broke. this created a segway for me to talk about right-to-repair with people who otherwise would have never cared. it’s a great tool to open discussion into ethical hardware and software. i miss having those conversations as regularly as i was.
there’s no news on the specifics of the device just yet, just a couple of sneak peaks. so it’s hard to say if it will be returning the headphone jack, bringing back expandable storage, or using newer models of SoC that aren’t immediately out of OEM update support. if these problems can be addressed, then the hardware of the phone will be fair game in my books.
however, the misleading marketing and the shameful software support are likely to unchange. the software support is a massive gaping hole that i feel like isn’t being discussed enough. taking 6 years to provide 3-4 years of software support shouldn’t be touted as excellence.
EDIT: i was wrong about the expandable storage, there was some more discussion on this thread.
I’d like to set the record straight, since you’ve made some pretty large leaps and factual errors which I hope doesn’t mislead anyone else.
Disclaimer before I start: I have a Fairphone 4, I’m probably one of the first to get it in North America (especially Canada), and I’m the first Fairphone Angel in that region. So yeah, I’m biased in favour of Fairphone, but I get nothing out of supporting them.
the fairphone company makes grand promises of 7 years support, despite historically really doing 2-4 years of support very badly.
The Fairphone 2 got 7 years of support, the Fairphone 3 just got it’s 5 years promise upgraded to 7. They make no promises about how timely the updates are, but they do keep your phone usable for 7 years if “usable” is defined as “having reasonably up to date Android security patches”. This doesn’t work for everyone, since some workplaces require very timely security updates, but I think that’s a quite reasonable niche to miss for a small company with much more limited resources than the big two phone companies. On the other hand I can confirm first hand that CalyxOS has had very quick turnaround for Fairphone 4 Android security patches (e.g. it’s July 12th, I just installed Android’s July security patch).
especially when they make claims outside of SoC OEM support periods despite knowing that they can’t provide those updates
Firmware updates aren’t the only sort of security patch. You drill this point home a bit more in your linked post as well, as though firmware is the only thing that determines whether a phone is secure. Blame the SoC makers for that, if you must, but Fairphone has not made any claims about firmware updates in that 5-7 year promise.
the fairphone 3 even launched on the same day as android 10 but instead of quickly porting over, they instead ported over their next line of phone (fairphone 3+)
Fairphone 3 and 3+ are the same phone for most intents and purposes. The 3+ has an upgraded camera module and DAC [citation needed], but the base software/OS is identical so that statement simply can’t be true.
the phone removed expandable storaged
All Fairphones have expandable storage, including the Fairphone 4.
the phone removed […] a headphone jack […], at the same time as they released their unrepairable line of wireless products. this is just begging for e-waste.
Are USB-C DACs really a big source of e-waste? Anyone who cares about e-waste would probably get one that’s going to last a while or at least have a replaceable USB-C cable since that’ll probably fail sooner (and it’s a easier to recycle than the actual circuitry). Wireless earbuds are infamously hard to make repairable, but Fairphone throwing their hat into the ring at least guarantees that there’s a more ethical option. If Fairphone doesn’t follow market trends, then they’re never going to get people to use their products, which would mean they’d be better off not existing at all. I don’t think any of us think that is a preferable option. Refer to your Pixel for recent market trends.
the claims of being ethically sourced are not universal to the whole phone, the fair trade gold standard is limited to some parts that they source.
Fairphone was like 90% ethical (& ethical offset) according to their latest impact report. You seem to have extrapolated the claim of using any fairtrade gold into using all fairtrade gold, which I can find no evidence of Fairphone saying. You’re also sort of throwing away any effort to be ethical because it’s not 100% ethical. As OP said, there is no [absolute] ethical consumption under capitalism (but there is more ethical).
they have hardware for an extra SIM slot on the fairphone 4, but made it unusable to the user. clearly just an anti-consumer move.
Qualcomm chips only support 2 active sim cards (called “5G Global multi-SIM” if you like marketing gibberish, FP4 has the X52 modem), so it’s not a big stretch to imagine that they didn’t want to confuse people when they try to activate both physical SIMs and an eSIM and it doesn’t let them. (I also can’t find anything that says how many physical SIMs the chip can support, so I wonder if Qualcomm would even allow for that configuration).
You’ve jumped to some conclusions on your own which don’t line up with what Fairphone has said, and then you conflate those conclusions with the actual facts. Marketing is all about telling people what’s good and why they should buy it, so it’s usually best to read it like a lawyer: read it literally and try to see find the loopholes. Hoping no one is going to ever make another big purchase without doing extensive research.
there’s a lot of valid stuff in here, particularly the expandable storage part. i was wrong there, i distinctly remember being frustrated at the offset because of media i’d read describing the opposite. i should’ve double checked that, thanks for calling me out on that.
i still think the issue with the updates is a major concern. when a person hears that they’re receiving 7 years of updates, they expect to be receiving updates in a timely fashion and to receive as many as those updates as possible.
i think throughout many of your points here you’re creating plausible deniability for fairphone in their marketing, which is in line with what you said at the end. i promise you, people are not doing this extensive research like you are. chances are, they watch an MKBHD video about the phone and then decide because of a lack of tech literacy. that’s not necessarily a bad thing, people follow different paths in life and have different interests. i couldn’t tell you anything about the technology of the door and hinges i just installed in my bedroom. but a person is entitled to be made aware of all of these asterisks and i feel like that discussion is not happening enough.
to imply that fairphone technically accomplishes their promises, and technically that this is okay because it’s what the industry does, simply isn’t good enough for me. if this marketing was pushed in another direction, as in to say “we can’t give you the service of other phones at an equal price point. we do our best to get you the best hardware as we can, but that comes with limitations, and we try our best to mitigate this with software, but we’re only a small team so these updates and patches come out very late” then that gives another image. but they don’t, they use catchy slogans even on their website like “Reliable, secure and ready to do business. The perfect match for your company’s values”. i feel like doing research into all of the drop-downs in their website will give you a different impression because you find some more honesty there, but i hope we agree that the reason these things are not mentioned/inferred on the front page is because they know it isn’t as pretty, and the average person who ‘just wants a phone’, and lives a more ethical life, won’t be pursuing that.
i think that any individual point that i reply to will wrap back around to the misleading marketing anyway and i don’t want to create a post where i just make the same point 15 times (to an extent i feel i already may have), i dont think anyone would want to read that. the main point being that you have a level of tech literacy that allows you to research the specifics of these caveats but a normal person simply does not understand and does not want to. these people who are buying a device that is worse than alternatives at a similar price point, understanding that the tax they’re paying is for their ethical values, deserve to have a better understanding of what they’re getting into. deliberately avoiding this is a big concern to me.
i can understand if my post came off overly negative, i also replied to my own thread on the linked post saying that we shouldn’t make good the enemy of perfect, and that when a person understands all these things, if the fairphone still fits your needs then it’s a great option. i have a bitter taste in my mouth from the way that fairphone handles marketing, especially when they adopt the moniker of Ethical and Sustainable. and i want to share some of these potential concerns with people who may be less tech literate.
there’s a good chance we simply disagree here on the importance of this, and that’s fine. i think we will and that’s why i opened this with “there’s a lot of valid stuff here” because i understand this isn’t where everyone draws their line in the sand. i hope other readers can see this discussion and understand where their priorities lie. or at the very least, make a more educated purchase.
I’ve been using a FP4 since ~2 months after release.
I cannot straight-up recommend that phone.
The ups:
Repairability is nice. It’s actually really easy to take apart.
Battery is replaceable without tools
They let you root/flash custom ROMs without losing your hardware warranty
Guaranteed updates until end of 2026
Spare parts available until 2027
5 year warranty
The downs:
The phone is getting late in it’s cycle.
The hardware is from 2020
There are only 3 years of software updates left. This is still good, but there are other manufacturers that offer the same
Parts are only guaranteed to be available for 3-4 years. That is ok, but you can also get spare parts for much older phones too.
Stock software is really buggy, and everyone gets a different set of bugs.
Support is really slow and most of the time unhelpful. “Thanks, we have added the bug to the backlog”. A year later, the bug is still there, even for major bugs.
Every release adds new bugs, the software overall is not getting better.
Android OS updates have so far been very late. Android 12 was just released earlier this year.
They outsource their OS development, and the devs don’t use FP as daily drivers, so they only fix what they are paid for, not what they find themselves.
The hardware isn’t great
I’ve had a few games that I couldn’t even play on lowest settings, because the game is too slow for it (e.g. Space Marshals 3)
The camera is really bad. The camera of my Moto Z Play was better, and that phone was a cheap phone released in 2016. The stock camera app is also super slow and laggy. ~50% of the time when you press the shutter, it will not even take a picture at all. Sideloading a version of Google Camera from the Fairphone forum does fix the lagging and the missed pictures, and it does improve the picture quality a bit, but don’t expect anything remotely fitting into 2023.
The phone is really expensive for what you are getting, and the price hasn’t come down a bit, considering that the phone is out since almost 2 years now.
Many people seem to expect a FP5 to be released soon-ish
All in all:
It’s a decent, though overpriced phone if you really like to hack and tinker. There is an ethical aspect if you believe their marketing, but in the end it’s using mostly off-the-shelf components. If you are looking for a phone that “just works”, this is not the place.
Also, regarding repairability: For the high price point you can easily afford multiple professional battery/screen replacements if you buy a cheaper mainstream phone instead.
So this is not a straight-up buy or don’t buy. For some people this is the right phone, for many there might be better alternatives out there.
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Lots of reviews and users come to the same conclusion:
deleted by creator
Ofcourse it’s expensive.
Though you get a smartphone built from ethical sourced raw materials. Which you can’t get any cheaper atm.
Re ethical consumption, my opinion is, if you don’t absolutely need a new phone (broken beyond use) don’t get a new one. And then when you do get a “new” phone, get a second hand one. Fairphone may be “ethical” but it’s still marketing to get you to spend money on a new device. Reusing one will always be more ethical.
I’m too worried about am getting a second hand phone. Who knows what the seller isn’t telling me about it.
I bought a laptop second hand and it’s only like a year old, but after getting it home you start to notice the problems. Like, randomly the keyboard stops responding.
Tech is too expensive to take risks on, but I try to keep my tech until it’s unusable.
The problem I’m facing at the moment, is that everything seems to be breaking at the same time.
I have used a few second hand phones and they’ve pretty much always been fine fortunately. I see it could be a bit of a risk, but if the initial cost is so much lower, does that factor in to lowering the risk too? If I get a second hand phone and it lasts me 3 years instead of 4, but costs 250 instead of 600, I’d say it’s worth it. I’ve also used an ex-corporate second hand laptop made in 2014 for 4 years from 2018 to 2022, and only after that did it start to die. It was a Thinkpad, which may have helped it’s longevity. This is circumstantial evidence I understand, but in my opinion the lower cost and less environmental damage weighs better for me than maybe having to clean/replace the keyboard or battery. Buying second hand products originally known for their high quality construction or longevity probably helps too.
Whilst looking recently for second hand pixel 6 phones, I noticed a lot of them were hardly used, some even brand new and unopened, but still being sold at 200-280 gbp instead of new price 400+ for new.
I guess my concern is getting a second hand phone and it lasting 2 months. I’m not opposed to some things second hand, but I’m not interested in second hand tech that cost any decent amount of money.
i wrote this comment on another post recently, i think you might find some value. the thread has some good discussion. note that i regret using a fairphone, but i dont regret supporting the company. in a ‘lesser than two evils’ sense, fairphone is MUCH less evil.
the fairphone company makes grand promises of 7 years support, despite historically really doing 2-4 years of support very badly. to the point where when the fairphone 4 released, it was going to take so long for it to make an android upgrade that a FOSS group CalyxOS ended up making the port for them. being this late for security and feature releases is insane, especially when they make claims outside of SoC OEM support periods despite knowing that they can’t provide those updates. the fairphone 3 even launched on the same day as android 10 but instead of quickly porting over, they instead ported over their next line of phone (fairphone 3+)
the phone
removed expandable storagedand a headphone jack, with obscene pricing for storage upgrades and at the same time as they released their unrepairable line of wireless products. this is just begging for e-waste.the claims of being ethically sourced are not universal to the whole phone, the fair trade gold standard is limited to some parts that they source.
they have hardware for an extra SIM slot on the fairphone 4, but made it unusable to the user. clearly just an anti-consumer move.
there are other reeasons, and you’ll also notice im not providing sources here. a lot of this is readily available info online and frankly im tired, i hope you can search these things up yourself if you want to confirm. i’m saying these things in good faith if that makes you feel more comfortable. there are reasons to consider the fairphone, but know that if you’re doing this for a ‘long-lasting’ phone, then you’re only getting that on the hardware side and even then you’re vastly overpaying for the value of what you receive.
i still support fairphone in their journey to making mainstream fully modular phones with readily available replacement parts and open schematics. as a big ‘fuck you’ to smartphone producing companies, the fairphone does its’ job magnificently and provides an excellent example of why samsung, apple, google etc are lying scum when they say these things aren’t possible. if a small company like fairphone have been doing it since their infancy, we shouldn’t believe that big tech can’t.
EDIT: i was wrong about the expandable storage, please read replies to get see some further discussion.
to answer your other questions, i do have a used pixel with grapheneOS now. much better phone, much better experience and much better piece of mind. i use a good all-covering case so nobody asks what phone i use, because i’d hate to be a billboard for google.
the biggest selling point of the fairphone for me was its’ unique form factor. i was asked what phone i had A LOT. when i took the back off, people’s mind broke. this created a segway for me to talk about right-to-repair with people who otherwise would have never cared. it’s a great tool to open discussion into ethical hardware and software. i miss having those conversations as regularly as i was.
@frogman Would the new fairphone 5 maybe fix some of your cons with Fairphone?
there’s no news on the specifics of the device just yet, just a couple of sneak peaks. so it’s hard to say if it will be returning the headphone jack,
bringing back expandable storage,or using newer models of SoC that aren’t immediately out of OEM update support. if these problems can be addressed, then the hardware of the phone will be fair game in my books.however, the misleading marketing and the shameful software support are likely to unchange. the software support is a massive gaping hole that i feel like isn’t being discussed enough. taking 6 years to provide 3-4 years of software support shouldn’t be touted as excellence.
EDIT: i was wrong about the expandable storage, there was some more discussion on this thread.
I’d like to set the record straight, since you’ve made some pretty large leaps and factual errors which I hope doesn’t mislead anyone else.
Disclaimer before I start: I have a Fairphone 4, I’m probably one of the first to get it in North America (especially Canada), and I’m the first Fairphone Angel in that region. So yeah, I’m biased in favour of Fairphone, but I get nothing out of supporting them.
The Fairphone 2 got 7 years of support, the Fairphone 3 just got it’s 5 years promise upgraded to 7. They make no promises about how timely the updates are, but they do keep your phone usable for 7 years if “usable” is defined as “having reasonably up to date Android security patches”. This doesn’t work for everyone, since some workplaces require very timely security updates, but I think that’s a quite reasonable niche to miss for a small company with much more limited resources than the big two phone companies. On the other hand I can confirm first hand that CalyxOS has had very quick turnaround for Fairphone 4 Android security patches (e.g. it’s July 12th, I just installed Android’s July security patch).
Firmware updates aren’t the only sort of security patch. You drill this point home a bit more in your linked post as well, as though firmware is the only thing that determines whether a phone is secure. Blame the SoC makers for that, if you must, but Fairphone has not made any claims about firmware updates in that 5-7 year promise.
Fairphone 3 and 3+ are the same phone for most intents and purposes. The 3+ has an upgraded camera module and DAC [citation needed], but the base software/OS is identical so that statement simply can’t be true.
All Fairphones have expandable storage, including the Fairphone 4.
Are USB-C DACs really a big source of e-waste? Anyone who cares about e-waste would probably get one that’s going to last a while or at least have a replaceable USB-C cable since that’ll probably fail sooner (and it’s a easier to recycle than the actual circuitry). Wireless earbuds are infamously hard to make repairable, but Fairphone throwing their hat into the ring at least guarantees that there’s a more ethical option. If Fairphone doesn’t follow market trends, then they’re never going to get people to use their products, which would mean they’d be better off not existing at all. I don’t think any of us think that is a preferable option. Refer to your Pixel for recent market trends.
Fairphone was like 90% ethical (& ethical offset) according to their latest impact report. You seem to have extrapolated the claim of using any fairtrade gold into using all fairtrade gold, which I can find no evidence of Fairphone saying. You’re also sort of throwing away any effort to be ethical because it’s not 100% ethical. As OP said, there is no [absolute] ethical consumption under capitalism (but there is more ethical).
Qualcomm chips only support 2 active sim cards (called “5G Global multi-SIM” if you like marketing gibberish, FP4 has the X52 modem), so it’s not a big stretch to imagine that they didn’t want to confuse people when they try to activate both physical SIMs and an eSIM and it doesn’t let them. (I also can’t find anything that says how many physical SIMs the chip can support, so I wonder if Qualcomm would even allow for that configuration).
You’ve jumped to some conclusions on your own which don’t line up with what Fairphone has said, and then you conflate those conclusions with the actual facts. Marketing is all about telling people what’s good and why they should buy it, so it’s usually best to read it like a lawyer: read it literally and try to see find the loopholes. Hoping no one is going to ever make another big purchase without doing extensive research.
also double kudos for joining the fairphone angels, that’s such a cool project. huge respect there
there’s a lot of valid stuff in here, particularly the expandable storage part. i was wrong there, i distinctly remember being frustrated at the offset because of media i’d read describing the opposite. i should’ve double checked that, thanks for calling me out on that.
i still think the issue with the updates is a major concern. when a person hears that they’re receiving 7 years of updates, they expect to be receiving updates in a timely fashion and to receive as many as those updates as possible.
i think throughout many of your points here you’re creating plausible deniability for fairphone in their marketing, which is in line with what you said at the end. i promise you, people are not doing this extensive research like you are. chances are, they watch an MKBHD video about the phone and then decide because of a lack of tech literacy. that’s not necessarily a bad thing, people follow different paths in life and have different interests. i couldn’t tell you anything about the technology of the door and hinges i just installed in my bedroom. but a person is entitled to be made aware of all of these asterisks and i feel like that discussion is not happening enough.
to imply that fairphone technically accomplishes their promises, and technically that this is okay because it’s what the industry does, simply isn’t good enough for me. if this marketing was pushed in another direction, as in to say “we can’t give you the service of other phones at an equal price point. we do our best to get you the best hardware as we can, but that comes with limitations, and we try our best to mitigate this with software, but we’re only a small team so these updates and patches come out very late” then that gives another image. but they don’t, they use catchy slogans even on their website like “Reliable, secure and ready to do business. The perfect match for your company’s values”. i feel like doing research into all of the drop-downs in their website will give you a different impression because you find some more honesty there, but i hope we agree that the reason these things are not mentioned/inferred on the front page is because they know it isn’t as pretty, and the average person who ‘just wants a phone’, and lives a more ethical life, won’t be pursuing that.
i think that any individual point that i reply to will wrap back around to the misleading marketing anyway and i don’t want to create a post where i just make the same point 15 times (to an extent i feel i already may have), i dont think anyone would want to read that. the main point being that you have a level of tech literacy that allows you to research the specifics of these caveats but a normal person simply does not understand and does not want to. these people who are buying a device that is worse than alternatives at a similar price point, understanding that the tax they’re paying is for their ethical values, deserve to have a better understanding of what they’re getting into. deliberately avoiding this is a big concern to me.
i can understand if my post came off overly negative, i also replied to my own thread on the linked post saying that we shouldn’t make good the enemy of perfect, and that when a person understands all these things, if the fairphone still fits your needs then it’s a great option. i have a bitter taste in my mouth from the way that fairphone handles marketing, especially when they adopt the moniker of Ethical and Sustainable. and i want to share some of these potential concerns with people who may be less tech literate.
there’s a good chance we simply disagree here on the importance of this, and that’s fine. i think we will and that’s why i opened this with “there’s a lot of valid stuff here” because i understand this isn’t where everyone draws their line in the sand. i hope other readers can see this discussion and understand where their priorities lie. or at the very least, make a more educated purchase.
I’ve been using a FP4 since ~2 months after release.
I cannot straight-up recommend that phone.
The ups:
The downs:
All in all:
It’s a decent, though overpriced phone if you really like to hack and tinker. There is an ethical aspect if you believe their marketing, but in the end it’s using mostly off-the-shelf components. If you are looking for a phone that “just works”, this is not the place.
Also, regarding repairability: For the high price point you can easily afford multiple professional battery/screen replacements if you buy a cheaper mainstream phone instead.
So this is not a straight-up buy or don’t buy. For some people this is the right phone, for many there might be better alternatives out there.