A federal bill that will require Google and Meta to pay media outlets for news content that they share or otherwise repurpose on their platforms is set to become law.
What a joke that the heritage minister will “push back” on Google and Meta refusing to carry our news. What, we’re now just going to force foreign companies to pay for our failing news industry?
I don’t know where you get the idea they don’t pay taxes here. When they operate here they pay taxes here.
However, this argument that merely linking to content means you must pay the creator of that content is bullshit. If that is true we should just shut down the internet now.
This isn’t anything like Reddit either. Journalists get paid, unlike Reddit mods and users. The news agencies can and do put content behind paywalls. If they choose to put content up for free that is also their choice. Then they don’t get paid for it.
I think this whole thing makes it abundantly clear that the news sites benefit more from the links from Google and Meta then the other way around.
None of this has anything to do with trying to force people to pay for simply linking to content on the internet, which is what this stupid law does.
Re taxes, of course they don’t pay income tax in Canada. Why would a US company pay Canadian or income tax in any other country? That’s beyond stupid. As I said, WHEN THEY OPERATE HERE, e.g. employ people or sell things, then yes they do pay Canadian taxes. They have Canadian subsidiaries for these things and those all obey all our laws and pay our taxes.
Also, I’m not “defending” anyone. I’m explaining to you how taxes work as you don’t seem to understand.
Because they’re profiting from the work of Canadians and no they don’t have subsidiaries, they don’t even pay taxes in the USA, I linked to articles about it in another comment.
Journalism is the bulwark that supports democracy in any society … you have your politicians and leaders and if there is no one there to ask questions, you are left with just taking the word of everything they say for granted and trust everything they say
Journalists, real actual objective journalists that take no sides and report the relevant topics and leave the reader to decide on what to believe, have the thankless job of taking our leaders to task and make them accountable for everything they say and do.
When you place all that journalistic work in the hands of a corporation to control and manipulate … it is a real danger to democracy.
Google, Meta and any other corporation should never be allowed to exercise any kind of control, manipulation or effect to any of the work that journalists produce and share
Once you allow a corporation that level of control … any kind of democratic ideas in the country will slowly get eroded and washed away.
When you place all that journalistic work in the hands of a corporation to control and manipulate … it is a real danger to democracy. Google, Meta and any other corporation should never be allowed to exercise any kind of control, manipulation or effect to any of the work that journalists produce and share
It could be said that this happened years ago in Canada. Much of what is considered under this bill as Canadian journalism is largely owned by non-Canadian entities.
For example, Postmedia, who publishes the de-facto daily newspaper for many of the larger Canadian cities, is 66% owned by one american hedge fund. The papers have a Canadian presence, but their brand and ownership are much like a modern Tim Hortons, all Canadian trappings but profits that leave the country for an international investment firm.
So, at best, even if the bill redistributes some profits from tech-bros to their umbrella of qualifying Canadian news outlets, two-thirds of any amount paid would still return to the control of stakeholders in the United States anyway.
Sure, I completely agree, but I don’t think any of that has to do with this situation. I don’t think anyone should even have to pay simply for an http link to another public website. That’s what this is about.
If the news websites don’t want people linking to their website for free then they should change their robots.txt so that they are not indexed and put stories behind a free login gate. Then they can negotiate to give headlines/summaries to Google or Meta or whoever.
Ok but link aggregators don’t just link the url. They link the url, show a picture they scraped off the site, the headline (aka the most valuable piece of text) and then often the first paragraph or so of text.
It’s pretty obvious that the revenue of news media has decreased as social media revenue has increased and it has really shown in the quality of non-public news organizations the world over.
The issue is that Google and Meta have positioned themselves as gatekeepers. They can decide which news sites they direct people to and which ones they don’t. This gives them a lot of power over news media.
The result has been that despite having more information available to people than ever, people are more ignorant of the news than ever before.
The social media companies have made themselves de facto stewards of the the internet. If they were Canadian corporations, the government would have the power to break up their oligopoly over information. But since they aren’t Canadian corporations, the only recourse is to tax them.
Yes agreed, but the problem is far wider than just Canadian news sources. The solution is not to try to tax them, because they will just disengage and make the problem worse. I don’t have a good solution right now but if we were to pass regulation it should be something about automated recommendation systems (ai) not trying to make people pay to link to things.
AI recommendation systems are even worse. They learn from the behaviour of people. Not everyone on the internet is trustworthy, so these AI algorithms are learning bad habits. It probably only takes around a 1000 person troll farm to manipulate a machine learning algorithm.
Who can devote 1000+ people to manipulating the machine learning algorithms that recommend content? Countries interested in disinformation campaigns to destabilize their adversaries. Hence C-11… need to have Canadians involved in those systems otherwise it’s just going to be Russia, China, or whoever else is dedicated enough to poisoning the data that the machine learning algorithms are learning from.
This is good news purely because it means “news” and their atrocious comment sections will stay off my Facebook feed. I couldn’t care less about media conglomorates getting their buck.
You are not logged in. However you can subscribe from another Fediverse account, for example Lemmy or Mastodon. To do this, paste the following into the search field of your instance: !canada@lemmy.ca
What a joke that the heritage minister will “push back” on Google and Meta refusing to carry our news. What, we’re now just going to force foreign companies to pay for our failing news industry?
So Reddit profiting from the work of mods and its users: Scandal
Meta and Google profiting from the work of journalists without paying any taxes in Canada: Totally normal
I don’t know where you get the idea they don’t pay taxes here. When they operate here they pay taxes here.
However, this argument that merely linking to content means you must pay the creator of that content is bullshit. If that is true we should just shut down the internet now.
This isn’t anything like Reddit either. Journalists get paid, unlike Reddit mods and users. The news agencies can and do put content behind paywalls. If they choose to put content up for free that is also their choice. Then they don’t get paid for it.
I think this whole thing makes it abundantly clear that the news sites benefit more from the links from Google and Meta then the other way around.
They don’t pay taxes in Canada
https://www.huffpost.com/archive/ca/entry/canadian-taxes-dont-apply-to-companies-like-google-and-we-pay-with-jobs_ca_5cd51c2de4b07bc72974e01c/amp
Because they operate from the USA… But wait! Even in the USA they don’t pay their taxes!
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-google-taxes-netherlands-idUSKCN1OX1G9
https://www.salon.com/2021/06/01/amazon-facebook-and-other-tech-giants-paid-almost-100b-less-in-taxes-than-they-claimed-analysis_partner/
So you can stop defending them now, they don’t care about you, you don’t need to care about them.
None of this has anything to do with trying to force people to pay for simply linking to content on the internet, which is what this stupid law does.
Re taxes, of course they don’t pay income tax in Canada. Why would a US company pay Canadian or income tax in any other country? That’s beyond stupid. As I said, WHEN THEY OPERATE HERE, e.g. employ people or sell things, then yes they do pay Canadian taxes. They have Canadian subsidiaries for these things and those all obey all our laws and pay our taxes.
Also, I’m not “defending” anyone. I’m explaining to you how taxes work as you don’t seem to understand.
Because they’re profiting from the work of Canadians and no they don’t have subsidiaries, they don’t even pay taxes in the USA, I linked to articles about it in another comment.
This is great news indeed. Google and Meta are thieves.
Thank god. Their news feed algo is fucking poison to our society.
Journalism is the bulwark that supports democracy in any society … you have your politicians and leaders and if there is no one there to ask questions, you are left with just taking the word of everything they say for granted and trust everything they say
Journalists, real actual objective journalists that take no sides and report the relevant topics and leave the reader to decide on what to believe, have the thankless job of taking our leaders to task and make them accountable for everything they say and do.
When you place all that journalistic work in the hands of a corporation to control and manipulate … it is a real danger to democracy.
Google, Meta and any other corporation should never be allowed to exercise any kind of control, manipulation or effect to any of the work that journalists produce and share
Once you allow a corporation that level of control … any kind of democratic ideas in the country will slowly get eroded and washed away.
It could be said that this happened years ago in Canada. Much of what is considered under this bill as Canadian journalism is largely owned by non-Canadian entities.
For example, Postmedia, who publishes the de-facto daily newspaper for many of the larger Canadian cities, is 66% owned by one american hedge fund. The papers have a Canadian presence, but their brand and ownership are much like a modern Tim Hortons, all Canadian trappings but profits that leave the country for an international investment firm.
So, at best, even if the bill redistributes some profits from tech-bros to their umbrella of qualifying Canadian news outlets, two-thirds of any amount paid would still return to the control of stakeholders in the United States anyway.
Just to make things clear, two thirds of what’s going to post media, not two thirds of all that’s redistributed.
Sure, I completely agree, but I don’t think any of that has to do with this situation. I don’t think anyone should even have to pay simply for an http link to another public website. That’s what this is about.
If the news websites don’t want people linking to their website for free then they should change their robots.txt so that they are not indexed and put stories behind a free login gate. Then they can negotiate to give headlines/summaries to Google or Meta or whoever.
Ok but link aggregators don’t just link the url. They link the url, show a picture they scraped off the site, the headline (aka the most valuable piece of text) and then often the first paragraph or so of text.
It’s pretty obvious that the revenue of news media has decreased as social media revenue has increased and it has really shown in the quality of non-public news organizations the world over.
The issue is that Google and Meta have positioned themselves as gatekeepers. They can decide which news sites they direct people to and which ones they don’t. This gives them a lot of power over news media.
The result has been that despite having more information available to people than ever, people are more ignorant of the news than ever before.
The social media companies have made themselves de facto stewards of the the internet. If they were Canadian corporations, the government would have the power to break up their oligopoly over information. But since they aren’t Canadian corporations, the only recourse is to tax them.
Yes agreed, but the problem is far wider than just Canadian news sources. The solution is not to try to tax them, because they will just disengage and make the problem worse. I don’t have a good solution right now but if we were to pass regulation it should be something about automated recommendation systems (ai) not trying to make people pay to link to things.
AI recommendation systems are even worse. They learn from the behaviour of people. Not everyone on the internet is trustworthy, so these AI algorithms are learning bad habits. It probably only takes around a 1000 person troll farm to manipulate a machine learning algorithm.
Who can devote 1000+ people to manipulating the machine learning algorithms that recommend content? Countries interested in disinformation campaigns to destabilize their adversaries. Hence C-11… need to have Canadians involved in those systems otherwise it’s just going to be Russia, China, or whoever else is dedicated enough to poisoning the data that the machine learning algorithms are learning from.
This is good news purely because it means “news” and their atrocious comment sections will stay off my Facebook feed. I couldn’t care less about media conglomorates getting their buck.