I should probably move off of the deployment that I’ve got right now at some point, but what are people currently using for home automation? Is anyone running a newer version of HA that thinks it’s not actually that bad?
I understand both frustrations. I still run HA, and with a few addons, namely VSCode, ESPHome, and Node Red, it’s a very serviceable solution, and I don’t think anything else comes close. The config is still YAML for the most part, but you do have to go through a lot of GUI to get to edit the individual elements. That’s for sure not as nice, but I wouldn’t want to set up my complicated home theater automation on any other system.
Hey, I like YAML config just as much as the next guy, but I understand the decision to go the GUI way.
With large Home Assistant installs YAML gets really messy, and most changes require a reboot to show up (well, both issues could be fixed by the devs, but they chose otherwise). I really thought that I’d miss YAML, but so far it’s working just fine for me. Migration or restoring is a bit more tricky, as I prefer the start from scratch approach instead of the restore a 10 year old backup one.
Home Assistant’s (docker install) backup is just a zip file of the config folder. This makes it easier to fix things if needed, but isn’t as nice as editing YAML directly. I’d love to have option to use YAML if I want to and GUI otherwise.
As for developers being a bunch of assholes? Well, you’re right. Luckily the community is much better and much more helpful.
Personally, I haven’t run into a situation where I could only configure something via UI. There’s always been an option to toggle between a UI editor, and just a text editor for the appropriate YAML. There could be exceptions that I haven’t encountered, but they’re definitely few and far between.
i guess the issue is not that you can’t use yaml but instead that a lot of things are removed from the actual config.yaml file. inuser tonhave all integrations set up in that file, after every update i get a notification, that this is deprecated for that integration and that i should remove it and use the gui setup instead. i have my config in git which saved me from needing backups, because all was already configured and could be redeployed at any time to another machine. now that is not possible anymore.
I set up a new HA install a couple months ago and didn’t write any YAML. It was kind of nice? The UI tools have come a long way and it discovered all my devices which had never happened before.
The thread you shared is worrying though, it’s the complete opposite of the spirit of FOSS. I should probably reconsider paying for their subscription at a minimum.
Absence of Yaml is exactly biggest annoyance in modern HA. It just not configurable without million of clicks. Just try to apply same automation procedure to other set of devices. In text you just copy block, in GUI you have to redo everything from scratch.
and partially because the developers are insufferable dickholes.
Is that guy an official developer? It looks like he’s just a developer of one of the add-ons, but I haven’t deeply researched this. Gross behaviour nevertheless and seems to stem from a misunderstanding of what a FOSS license means.
Hmm, I don’t think the dev being a dick here. He can ask distro maintainers to not package his app. There are plenty of devs with similar stance, e.g. jwz who asked debian to stop packaging his xscreensaver app. Likewise, the maintainer is free to ignore the dev’s request and include the app anyway.
I bit a bullet and re-implement all automation on NoderRed leaving HA only dashboard. It is still not great, as Node Red is gui based. So may be Pythom + MQTT is best way for home automation.
I second openhab. Can’t speak for too many integrations but all I tried work without issues.
Especially the separation of abstraction layers is something that I came to appreciate highly. You have the physical object, it’s item representation and then the rules and interactions.
On the downside might be the way that this abstraction makes the configuration a bit more complicated - but as you’re missing the yaml config you might enjoy the configuration files! I’d just give it a shot :)
HA has a sour taste for me since their broken promise about open sourcing their server side. It’s still a black box. Plus the whole dns debacle a while back.
And I honestly don’t understand how HA is still the de facto standard for home automation - I tried recreating some of my more complicated rules in HA and it became such a mess very quickly (think of 3 or 4 non nested conditions and altering the states of multiple objects depending on virtual items).
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I understand both frustrations. I still run HA, and with a few addons, namely VSCode, ESPHome, and Node Red, it’s a very serviceable solution, and I don’t think anything else comes close. The config is still YAML for the most part, but you do have to go through a lot of GUI to get to edit the individual elements. That’s for sure not as nice, but I wouldn’t want to set up my complicated home theater automation on any other system.
Hey, I like YAML config just as much as the next guy, but I understand the decision to go the GUI way.
With large Home Assistant installs YAML gets really messy, and most changes require a reboot to show up (well, both issues could be fixed by the devs, but they chose otherwise). I really thought that I’d miss YAML, but so far it’s working just fine for me. Migration or restoring is a bit more tricky, as I prefer the start from scratch approach instead of the restore a 10 year old backup one.
Home Assistant’s (docker install) backup is just a zip file of the config folder. This makes it easier to fix things if needed, but isn’t as nice as editing YAML directly. I’d love to have option to use YAML if I want to and GUI otherwise.
As for developers being a bunch of assholes? Well, you’re right. Luckily the community is much better and much more helpful.
deleted by creator
Have you used either of them before and have opinions on them vs HA?
Node-Red is a graph flow tool and MQTT is a protocol. Neither of which can do what HA does, so not sure why that comment was made.
Try HomeSeer. I ran it for years before switching to HA.
Personally, I haven’t run into a situation where I could only configure something via UI. There’s always been an option to toggle between a UI editor, and just a text editor for the appropriate YAML. There could be exceptions that I haven’t encountered, but they’re definitely few and far between.
i guess the issue is not that you can’t use yaml but instead that a lot of things are removed from the actual config.yaml file. inuser tonhave all integrations set up in that file, after every update i get a notification, that this is deprecated for that integration and that i should remove it and use the gui setup instead. i have my config in git which saved me from needing backups, because all was already configured and could be redeployed at any time to another machine. now that is not possible anymore.
deleted by creator
I set up a new HA install a couple months ago and didn’t write any YAML. It was kind of nice? The UI tools have come a long way and it discovered all my devices which had never happened before.
The thread you shared is worrying though, it’s the complete opposite of the spirit of FOSS. I should probably reconsider paying for their subscription at a minimum.
as someone who despises YAML, i am intrigued.
as someone who despises dickheadery, i am concerned
Absence of Yaml is exactly biggest annoyance in modern HA. It just not configurable without million of clicks. Just try to apply same automation procedure to other set of devices. In text you just copy block, in GUI you have to redo everything from scratch.
I’m curious where you run into there not being a YAML option? There’s almost always Open in YAML somewhere.
deleted by creator
Is that guy an official developer? It looks like he’s just a developer of one of the add-ons, but I haven’t deeply researched this. Gross behaviour nevertheless and seems to stem from a misunderstanding of what a FOSS license means.
EDIT: I see what you mean in this thread: https://community.home-assistant.io/t/consider-to-avoid-adding-library-dependencies-from-frenck/315185/33, although that was a couple of years ago so maybe things have cooled off a bit.
deleted by creator
Hmm, I don’t think the dev being a dick here. He can ask distro maintainers to not package his app. There are plenty of devs with similar stance, e.g. jwz who asked debian to stop packaging his xscreensaver app. Likewise, the maintainer is free to ignore the dev’s request and include the app anyway.
Acronyms, initialisms, abbreviations, contractions, and other phrases which expand to something larger, that I’ve seen in this thread:
3 acronyms in this thread; the most compressed thread commented on today has 4 acronyms.
[Thread #190 for this sub, first seen 5th Oct 2023, 06:25] [FAQ] [Full list] [Contact] [Source code]
I’m deep in the HA rabbit hole but I wonder how OpenHAB is travelling
I’m very happily running openhab!
deleted by creator
I bit a bullet and re-implement all automation on NoderRed leaving HA only dashboard. It is still not great, as Node Red is gui based. So may be Pythom + MQTT is best way for home automation.
+1 for nodered
I second openhab. Can’t speak for too many integrations but all I tried work without issues.
Especially the separation of abstraction layers is something that I came to appreciate highly. You have the physical object, it’s item representation and then the rules and interactions. On the downside might be the way that this abstraction makes the configuration a bit more complicated - but as you’re missing the yaml config you might enjoy the configuration files! I’d just give it a shot :)
HA has a sour taste for me since their broken promise about open sourcing their server side. It’s still a black box. Plus the whole dns debacle a while back. And I honestly don’t understand how HA is still the de facto standard for home automation - I tried recreating some of my more complicated rules in HA and it became such a mess very quickly (think of 3 or 4 non nested conditions and altering the states of multiple objects depending on virtual items).