Ability to use RAID, current setup only has the capacity for 1 drive.
Is this a good option or is there a better option?
I’ve also been considering using an external drive enclosure with software RAID, but I heard that could be unreliable.
EDIT: Is the price good? Shipping is quite expensive (about $100), so I’m only planning on buying it if the deal is good.
Depends on what you’ll be using it for. If your use case is a simple NAS with shares , torrents and whatnot it is probably overkill and will waste way more power than required. If you plan to transcode video then it might not be .
A more modern processor probably has better power efficiency. But this one should support features like turning off some of the cores or throttling down when not needed.
You could also see if you can get one with lower power consumption, like even the 6700T.
Used processors are quite reasonable on eBay. I got one with a lower TDP and it actually benchmarked higher than my previous CPU (came with my used Dell workstation).
I don’t see that as a big downside. I’ve had hard drives wear out but memory, CPU, mobo and such can easily last 10 yrs. At that point simply trying to plug in a new CPU or RAM is leaving a lot of modern advancement on the table.
Unless you have specific needs for compute, I’d go with that.
You really ought to look into idle power though. At $0.1/kWh, 1W is about $1/year. You can extrapolate from there.
TDP doesn’t matter here but the i3 is likely more efficient under load.
The shipping cost is quite extreme though. Not sure I’d pay that.
Well, unlike us, they’re obviously living in a country which massively subsidises energy cost. But it seems they either haven’t done the math properly or their measuring device is broken because even they shouldn’t be paying pennies per month.
You can do the calculation for yearly cost yourself; it’s not too hard. The two variables you need are energy pice and power.
Let’s say you’ve got 30W idle power draw at 0.4€/kWh. That comes out to ~105€/year if you ran it 24/7.
Thanks. I haven’t measured the amount of watts yet (I will soon) but online people mention the i5-6500T using 8W at idle. That would be about €30/y and is indeed a lot higher than a couple pennies.
What are the use cases? More RAM is nice but could be overkill if you’re bottlenecked by CPU, and if this is for running a few simple VMs or as storage then you may not need much of this.
RAID is generally a good thing but don’t get complacent, follow the 3-2-1 method. I.e. you might be better off saving the cash and using a backup script to push stuff you really care about to the cloud, and pay for cloud fees vice hw.
What’s the storage capacity on this motherboard? I know with their office PCs, you only get 2 SATA ports and typically only a single PCIE slot so you’re forced to choose between a GPU or LSI SAS card. I have a huge media library so this was one of my primary concerns when I specced mine out years ago. Also consider 3.5" drive capacity. Are you limited to just two HDDs?
If you’re as paranoid as me about data integrity, SAS drives on a host adapter card in “Initiator Target” (IT) mode with write-cache on the disks disabled is the safest. It will degrade performance when writing many small files concurrently, but not as badly as with SATA drives (that’s for spinning disks, of course, not SSD). With a good error-correcting redundant system such as ZFS you can probably get away with enabled write cache in most cases. Until you can’t.
RAID is generally a good thing but don’t get complacent, follow the 3-2-1 method
To expand on that: Redundant drive setup and backups serve completely different purposes. The only overlap is in case of a single disk failure, where RAID (or similar) may save the data.
Redundancy is all about reducing downtime in case of single hardware failures. Backups not only protect you from data loss in case of multiple simultaneous failures, but also from accidental deletion. Failures that require restoration of data almost always involve downtime. In short: You always need backups (unless it’s strictly a local cache, and easily recreatable), but if you want high availability, redundancy may help.
3-2-1-rule for backups, in case you’re unfamiliar: 3 copies of important data, on 2 different media, with 1 off-site.
Exactly. Just as a real world example for OP, my home server has an i5 7400 with the same TDP. At idle the whole system draws around 10.5W, measured from the wall.
I was worried about the power usage when I first started using my old gaming CPU for a home server (i7-4770k). I bought a kill-a-watt, ran it plugged into that for a month, saw that it was using pennies worth of energy per month and never worried about it again.
Unless you’re pegging the CPU at 100%, it’s not going to be pulling the full 65W. As far as maintenance fees go, the cost of replacing a single hard drive will likely overshadow your energy costs.
Pro tip: keep an eye out for hard drive deals on black fri. And I recommend doing a burn-in run on any new drives when you get them to push them past the initial failure window of the bathtub curve (I used badblocks. Took nearly a week for the initial run, but I found one bad drive and was able to RMA it immediately instead of finding out the hard way).
Seems decent but depends on your usage. Memory could be a bit excessive unless you’ll actually have a lot of simultaneous users. I’d also look into the features of the integrated graphics card. If you’re doing some streaming a low cost GPU might give you better options for hardware decoding/encoding.
If RAID is what you’re after, don’t mind the premium for SSD storage and have available 5.25" bays, I highly recommend 5.25" mobile racks. The one I’m using is a a cheap 4 drive one, but if you want something more premium there is always ICY DOCK.
i got a Fujitsu D556/2 (SFF as well) exactly because it seemed to have an optical drive bay. Turned out it does not have one, but some double sided tape and ugly cable management solved the issue for me :D.
My model, and I believe all other, have a 4pin molex connector for the power and as many sata ports as the rack can handle (in my case 4). My “mobile rack” came with 4 rather long sata cables (about 30cm) so it was easy to fit them through an empty pcie bracket slot and I just had to buy a somewhat long 4pin molex adapter.
The drives are practically internal, they are just located outside of the case in said “mobile rack”.
I’d buy a Dell Optiplex 5060 for about $200 off eBay and you’ll get an i7-8700 with a 630 iGPU and the NVME taken care of. Then you just need the hard drives and more RAM. My home server is just fine with 16GB of RAM, though. There’s no DE and I don’t game on it.
Sorry for the late reply. You can replace the optical drive with a 2.5" HDD or add a sata PCI-E card since your not using the GPU slot in this case. My personal setup uses an NVME for the OS (DietPi), and two 6TB external HDDs on an Optiplex 5060 SFF.
I didn’t see anyone else say this, but 7200 rpm disks are way louder than 5400. Where my server is it would be annoying, but if it’s in a closed room somewhere you’ll be fine.
Also, these drives are probably not made to run 24/7/365. First 1 or 2 years or so it will probably be fine, but after you can expect some sudden dead drives.
I have never known RPM of a drive to affect its noise level. The fan(s) will be far more significant in noise level. Most drives run pretty quietly, though some can get noisy during I/O, like my HGST Ultrastar He6 drives.
Also, without knowing the model, I wouldn’t say they’re not made to run 24/7. But even on desktop drives, it’s rarely run time that kills them, it’s start-stop cycles. Everything will be fine, but one day you’ll shut it down and some drives won’t spin up. That’s why power outages can be deadly to an old server.
The “designed for 24/7” thing is a myth. Yes, some server/enterprise parts have a lower failure rate, but it has nothing to do with 8 hours a day vs 24.
Also, my setup is almost entirely the cheapest consumer drives available, and I’ve never had any significant failure rates outside of the one bad supplier. If you are seeing anything like that, you should examine your setup. I suspect you either have cooling issues or (more likely) vibration that’s causing premature failures.
If you are planning to use it as a jellyfin or other media server, look for 8th Gen or later Intel. They have Intel quicksync that provide hardware decoding.
Intel Quick Sync video saw a lot of improvements on 8th gen & since it’s all so old the pricing differences between 7th & 8th gen are going to be negligible.
I think the fact that Windows 11 is only supported on 8th gen makes the previous generations quite cheap. Many companies are preparing the upgrade to windows 11 and start throwing the old stuff out.
You make a good point, but OP’s pick is still a really good choice. In early 2020 my old desktop became the new home server: i7-6700K w/ 32gb ram. It’s been going strong every day since. Unraid with Jellyfin, pihole, HAOS, and like 20 other containers running. I generally serve untranscoded 4k hevc videos locally, but I tossed in an old geforce 900 series for both on the fly transcoding as needed (honestly, it’s rare if ever) and for tdarr.
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I built the server I’m using now over a decade ago, with much worse specs, for way more money.
This will last you a long while depending on your requirements.
Depends on what you’ll be using it for. If your use case is a simple NAS with shares , torrents and whatnot it is probably overkill and will waste way more power than required. If you plan to transcode video then it might not be .
A more modern processor probably has better power efficiency. But this one should support features like turning off some of the cores or throttling down when not needed.
You could also see if you can get one with lower power consumption, like even the 6700T.
Used processors are quite reasonable on eBay. I got one with a lower TDP and it actually benchmarked higher than my previous CPU (came with my used Dell workstation).
But with Intel changing their socket every couple generations, you’re talking about a new motherboard too if you want to upgrade.
I don’t see that as a big downside. I’ve had hard drives wear out but memory, CPU, mobo and such can easily last 10 yrs. At that point simply trying to plug in a new CPU or RAM is leaving a lot of modern advancement on the table.
The lowest option is the i3-6100 which brings it down to $236.95 in total.
Unless you have specific needs for compute, I’d go with that.
You really ought to look into idle power though. At $0.1/kWh, 1W is about $1/year. You can extrapolate from there.
TDP doesn’t matter here but the i3 is likely more efficient under load.
The shipping cost is quite extreme though. Not sure I’d pay that.
I’m gettin some mixed messages between you and teawrecks@sopuli.xyz’s comment.
Well, unlike us, they’re obviously living in a country which massively subsidises energy cost. But it seems they either haven’t done the math properly or their measuring device is broken because even they shouldn’t be paying pennies per month.
You can do the calculation for yearly cost yourself; it’s not too hard. The two variables you need are energy pice and power.
Let’s say you’ve got 30W idle power draw at 0.4€/kWh. That comes out to ~105€/year if you ran it 24/7.
You can plug in arbitrary values yourself: https://numbat.dev/?q=1+year+*+30W+*+(0.4€%2FkWh)⏎
Thanks. I haven’t measured the amount of watts yet (I will soon) but online people mention the i5-6500T using 8W at idle. That would be about €30/y and is indeed a lot higher than a couple pennies.
What are the use cases? More RAM is nice but could be overkill if you’re bottlenecked by CPU, and if this is for running a few simple VMs or as storage then you may not need much of this.
RAID is generally a good thing but don’t get complacent, follow the 3-2-1 method. I.e. you might be better off saving the cash and using a backup script to push stuff you really care about to the cloud, and pay for cloud fees vice hw.
Use case is a few simple VMs, Nextcloud, storage, maybe a minecraft server and probably something like Jellyfin later on.
What’s the storage capacity on this motherboard? I know with their office PCs, you only get 2 SATA ports and typically only a single PCIE slot so you’re forced to choose between a GPU or LSI SAS card. I have a huge media library so this was one of my primary concerns when I specced mine out years ago. Also consider 3.5" drive capacity. Are you limited to just two HDDs?
I’m currently limited to 1 2.5" drive and 1 m.2 ssd. The 2.5" ssd slot was filled when I bought it. The m.2 slot is still empty.
This will be fine. But assume you’ll want to swap out the hard drives in the future for more, larger, NAS appropriate disks.
If you’re as paranoid as me about data integrity, SAS drives on a host adapter card in “Initiator Target” (IT) mode with write-cache on the disks disabled is the safest. It will degrade performance when writing many small files concurrently, but not as badly as with SATA drives (that’s for spinning disks, of course, not SSD). With a good error-correcting redundant system such as ZFS you can probably get away with enabled write cache in most cases. Until you can’t.
To expand on that: Redundant drive setup and backups serve completely different purposes. The only overlap is in case of a single disk failure, where RAID (or similar) may save the data.
Redundancy is all about reducing downtime in case of single hardware failures. Backups not only protect you from data loss in case of multiple simultaneous failures, but also from accidental deletion. Failures that require restoration of data almost always involve downtime. In short: You always need backups (unless it’s strictly a local cache, and easily recreatable), but if you want high availability, redundancy may help.
3-2-1-rule for backups, in case you’re unfamiliar: 3 copies of important data, on 2 different media, with 1 off-site.
TDP doesn’t have much to do with idle power draw, that’s more based on the age of the CPU and specific type (standard, U, or T skus)
Exactly. Just as a real world example for OP, my home server has an i5 7400 with the same TDP. At idle the whole system draws around 10.5W, measured from the wall.
I was worried about the power usage when I first started using my old gaming CPU for a home server (i7-4770k). I bought a kill-a-watt, ran it plugged into that for a month, saw that it was using pennies worth of energy per month and never worried about it again.
Unless you’re pegging the CPU at 100%, it’s not going to be pulling the full 65W. As far as maintenance fees go, the cost of replacing a single hard drive will likely overshadow your energy costs.
Pro tip: keep an eye out for hard drive deals on black fri. And I recommend doing a burn-in run on any new drives when you get them to push them past the initial failure window of the bathtub curve (I used
badblocks. Took nearly a week for the initial run, but I found one bad drive and was able to RMA it immediately instead of finding out the hard way).How high are your electricity prices? Mine is roughly €0,40/kWh.
I don’t have my bill in front of me, but for my state it looks like mine’s effectively around €0,10/kWh. So yeah, more expensive for you.
Seems decent but depends on your usage. Memory could be a bit excessive unless you’ll actually have a lot of simultaneous users. I’d also look into the features of the integrated graphics card. If you’re doing some streaming a low cost GPU might give you better options for hardware decoding/encoding.
If RAID is what you’re after, don’t mind the premium for SSD storage and have available 5.25" bays, I highly recommend 5.25" mobile racks. The one I’m using is a a cheap 4 drive one, but if you want something more premium there is always ICY DOCK.
I doubt a 5.25” rack will fit in my closet but thanks for the suggestion 😄
Mobile rack is just what these things seem to be called. Basically it’s just a cage that fits multiple 2.5" drives into a CD/DVD drive bay.
Oh okay, I thought it was a lot bigger. It’s still not going to fit in my Lenovo SFF PC I use as home server though.
i got a Fujitsu D556/2 (SFF as well) exactly because it seemed to have an optical drive bay. Turned out it does not have one, but some double sided tape and ugly cable management solved the issue for me :D.
Interesting solution. How did you connect it? PCIe?
My model, and I believe all other, have a 4pin molex connector for the power and as many sata ports as the rack can handle (in my case 4). My “mobile rack” came with 4 rather long sata cables (about 30cm) so it was easy to fit them through an empty pcie bracket slot and I just had to buy a somewhat long 4pin molex adapter.
The drives are practically internal, they are just located outside of the case in said “mobile rack”.
Acronyms, initialisms, abbreviations, contractions, and other phrases which expand to something larger, that I’ve seen in this thread:
6 acronyms in this thread; the most compressed thread commented on today has 4 acronyms.
[Thread #272 for this sub, first seen 10th Nov 2023, 14:35] [FAQ] [Full list] [Contact] [Source code]
Get a 10th/12th Gen processor so that you can transcode powerfully if you’re intending to use jellyfin.
Wow it didn’t even click in my head that this is a 6th gen Core. How is OP speccing out a custom server using 8 year old parts?
I’d buy a Dell Optiplex 5060 for about $200 off eBay and you’ll get an i7-8700 with a 630 iGPU and the NVME taken care of. Then you just need the hard drives and more RAM. My home server is just fine with 16GB of RAM, though. There’s no DE and I don’t game on it.
It seems to only have capacity for 1 drive.
Sorry for the late reply. You can replace the optical drive with a 2.5" HDD or add a sata PCI-E card since your not using the GPU slot in this case. My personal setup uses an NVME for the OS (DietPi), and two 6TB external HDDs on an Optiplex 5060 SFF.
I always dissuade anyone from buying Intel for any purpose. A backdoored CPU undermines your security and privacy to an unacceptable degree.
A backdoored what? As if AMD is any more or less secure.
Why would PSP be better than IME?
PSP allegedly does not have internet acces so it can’t call home while IME does.
I didn’t see anyone else say this, but 7200 rpm disks are way louder than 5400. Where my server is it would be annoying, but if it’s in a closed room somewhere you’ll be fine.
Also, these drives are probably not made to run 24/7/365. First 1 or 2 years or so it will probably be fine, but after you can expect some sudden dead drives.
I have never known RPM of a drive to affect its noise level. The fan(s) will be far more significant in noise level. Most drives run pretty quietly, though some can get noisy during I/O, like my HGST Ultrastar He6 drives.
Also, without knowing the model, I wouldn’t say they’re not made to run 24/7. But even on desktop drives, it’s rarely run time that kills them, it’s start-stop cycles. Everything will be fine, but one day you’ll shut it down and some drives won’t spin up. That’s why power outages can be deadly to an old server.
The “designed for 24/7” thing is a myth. Yes, some server/enterprise parts have a lower failure rate, but it has nothing to do with 8 hours a day vs 24.
Also, my setup is almost entirely the cheapest consumer drives available, and I’ve never had any significant failure rates outside of the one bad supplier. If you are seeing anything like that, you should examine your setup. I suspect you either have cooling issues or (more likely) vibration that’s causing premature failures.
If you are planning to use it as a jellyfin or other media server, look for 8th Gen or later Intel. They have Intel quicksync that provide hardware decoding.
I’m running Jellyfin on 6th gen i3 and quicksync works fine.
Why 8th gen? Wikipedia and Plex say quicksync was added in Sandy Bridge.
QuickSync is available on earlier gen machines. I have 7th gen with it.
Intel Quick Sync video saw a lot of improvements on 8th gen & since it’s all so old the pricing differences between 7th & 8th gen are going to be negligible.
I don’t see as nearly as many used ThinkCentre Tinys for sale with post 7th gen chips. I wonder if this is why.
I think the fact that Windows 11 is only supported on 8th gen makes the previous generations quite cheap. Many companies are preparing the upgrade to windows 11 and start throwing the old stuff out.
8th gen is when support was added for HEVC I’m pretty sure
Yep, 8th gen (Coffee Lake) saw a lot of improvements in Intel Quick Sync, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_Quick_Sync_Video#Hardware_decoding_and_encoding
You make a good point, but OP’s pick is still a really good choice. In early 2020 my old desktop became the new home server: i7-6700K w/ 32gb ram. It’s been going strong every day since. Unraid with Jellyfin, pihole, HAOS, and like 20 other containers running. I generally serve untranscoded 4k hevc videos locally, but I tossed in an old geforce 900 series for both on the fly transcoding as needed (honestly, it’s rare if ever) and for tdarr.