Dr. Garni Tatikian is having second thoughts about her future as a family doctor because of what she calls unfair salaries. Tatikian was among the Canadian health-care workers who shared their experiences with CTVNews.ca about the problems driving some to consider leaving the profession or quit altogether.
What about the taxes not paid on income through deductions? If the business is paying out 25-30% in legitimate expenses against the Doctor’s income, it’s a push. No-one has got anything near an increase to keep up with inflation over the past time span they reference - that’s why Galen Weston is the poster-boy for corporate greed: HE makes more (as do the investor-class of land-owners and stock-players) while we plebes foot the bill.
Goddam, I’d like to get ahead, too, who wouldn’t? But the implicit message here is “Pay me more or I’m gone.” So CTV interviews one doctor who’s uncertain she’ll get sufficient ROI on her Canadian taxpayer subsidized education, who’s facing making a median $250K a year and upset that after expenses and taxes, she won’t have enough left to pay herself anything but “a pretty low rate”.
How low? Well… $250K minus 30% expenses is $175K - and if they are legit deductions, her tax bill will be around $38500, leaving her $136500 as take home. That’s $47.40 per hour.
Here’s some free advice, buttercup, we’re all in the same boat, we just don’t all work in a profession that garners 6-month probationary writers to hear us whinge.
Why would you want to beat down someone else instead of demanding that everyone gets risen up?
Becoming a family doctor in Canada is a minimum 9-year (usually more) postsecondary education. That’s life they’re not getting back. And taxpayer-subsidized though it may be, most family doctors start their careers with six-figure student debt to pay off.
Being a family doctor is emotionally demanding, important to society, and increasingly complex. People can, and do, choose to make more money for less effort in other fields. It’s no longer a promising career path for intelligent young people, which is leading to a shortage of people doing work we all depend on.
So OK, maybe you have no sympathy for them. But don’t be surprised next time you need medical help and there’s nobody there to help you.
Not a doctor, i spent 7 years on post secondary education and i barely raked in a 5 figure student debt to pay off at ultra low interest.
I had a friend studying to become a doctor. Because of that, banks allowed him to take on huge debts and he bought a brand new fully equipped wrangler. No wonder doctors have 6 figures debt if that’s what banks allow them to take… I knew someone else in dentistry who bought a BMW.
Knowing that will make money, they take on more debt. Then they ask to raise salaries… It’s a system that attracts greedy people, the type that will move out of their home country just to make now money.
For me, it would take about 4 times my current salary to move away, because all my family and friends are here.
The theory you describe is an endlessly increasing resource stream? Or is there a point where taxpayers run out of resources and the doctors, no longer getting what they want, withdraw their services? Does this sound like a rational and well thought out path forward?
Not at all. What I would suggest is improving pay—but even more than that, working conditions—until family medicine work is not such a shitty proposition that medical students don’t even want to go through the residency process to train for it.
This. People are all for unions and collective action until it inconveniences them or it is done by someone they seem “too rich.”
We ARE all in the same boat. Doctors, with few exceptions, are still the working class who depend on their paychecks from their labor. That they are doing something about their conditions should be celebrated and modeled, not condemned.
I certainly won’t work for $50/hr, and I didn’t spend nearly as much time or money on my education. You’re not really making the point you think you are.
Maybe an unpopular opinion, but I have long thought that most Doctors are overpaid. Most just rinse and repeat very mundane things over and over again and send you to a specialist with your outside of mundane. A nurse would be just as effective for most ailments. Not saying all Drs as some are exceptional and lead the charge of research and change but most get their degree and then stagnate and enjoy the good life.
While I do think we need to better employ nurses for first line treatment, and I want to say this with the upmost respect for the profession, a lot of nurses are dumb as shit. We’ve see so so so sooooo many being antivax during the pandemic.
A nurse would be just as effective for most ailments.
Nurse Practitioner? Sure.
Registered Nurse? No, they don’t have the training for it. Some have picked up skills through practical experience, but that’s an exception to the rule.
EDIT just want to clarify nurses don’t have the training in diagnosis, similar to how doctors don’t have much training in care.
My only wish is for doctors who have immigrated to be properly vetted before starting work in my country. Tried to get help for sudden, rather violent allergic reactions a couple of years ago. The first doctor told me to avoid fish on pizza and sent me home. The second thought it could be soda or energy drinks and did the same. Only after ending up in the ER swollen to shit did I get tested. Turns out it was neither pizza nor dr.pepper.
They are just not as outrageously and ridiculously high as say, American medical salaries, in the aggregate.
I mean, one is Socialised healthcare, the other is whatever private insurance madness Americans have. Where people can lose their home due to a broken leg, in fees. That is not really happening in Finland or Canada. Unless it is some extreme case.
I mean, I get it. As a member of the follicly-challenged community, I too want to tussle his hair. I just wouldn’t put stickers on my vehicle. How gauche!
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What about the taxes not paid on income through deductions? If the business is paying out 25-30% in legitimate expenses against the Doctor’s income, it’s a push. No-one has got anything near an increase to keep up with inflation over the past time span they reference - that’s why Galen Weston is the poster-boy for corporate greed: HE makes more (as do the investor-class of land-owners and stock-players) while we plebes foot the bill.
Goddam, I’d like to get ahead, too, who wouldn’t? But the implicit message here is “Pay me more or I’m gone.” So CTV interviews one doctor who’s uncertain she’ll get sufficient ROI on her Canadian taxpayer subsidized education, who’s facing making a median $250K a year and upset that after expenses and taxes, she won’t have enough left to pay herself anything but “a pretty low rate”.
How low? Well… $250K minus 30% expenses is $175K - and if they are legit deductions, her tax bill will be around $38500, leaving her $136500 as take home. That’s $47.40 per hour.
Here’s some free advice, buttercup, we’re all in the same boat, we just don’t all work in a profession that garners 6-month probationary writers to hear us whinge.
Why would you want to beat down someone else instead of demanding that everyone gets risen up?
Becoming a family doctor in Canada is a minimum 9-year (usually more) postsecondary education. That’s life they’re not getting back. And taxpayer-subsidized though it may be, most family doctors start their careers with six-figure student debt to pay off.
Being a family doctor is emotionally demanding, important to society, and increasingly complex. People can, and do, choose to make more money for less effort in other fields. It’s no longer a promising career path for intelligent young people, which is leading to a shortage of people doing work we all depend on.
So OK, maybe you have no sympathy for them. But don’t be surprised next time you need medical help and there’s nobody there to help you.
Not a doctor, i spent 7 years on post secondary education and i barely raked in a 5 figure student debt to pay off at ultra low interest.
I had a friend studying to become a doctor. Because of that, banks allowed him to take on huge debts and he bought a brand new fully equipped wrangler. No wonder doctors have 6 figures debt if that’s what banks allow them to take… I knew someone else in dentistry who bought a BMW.
Knowing that will make money, they take on more debt. Then they ask to raise salaries… It’s a system that attracts greedy people, the type that will move out of their home country just to make now money.
For me, it would take about 4 times my current salary to move away, because all my family and friends are here.
The theory you describe is an endlessly increasing resource stream? Or is there a point where taxpayers run out of resources and the doctors, no longer getting what they want, withdraw their services? Does this sound like a rational and well thought out path forward?
Not at all. What I would suggest is improving pay—but even more than that, working conditions—until family medicine work is not such a shitty proposition that medical students don’t even want to go through the residency process to train for it.
This. People are all for unions and collective action until it inconveniences them or it is done by someone they seem “too rich.”
We ARE all in the same boat. Doctors, with few exceptions, are still the working class who depend on their paychecks from their labor. That they are doing something about their conditions should be celebrated and modeled, not condemned.
Traditionally the middle class was doctors, lawyers, business people.
It kind of is again.
Doesn’t mean were not still in the same boat though.
I certainly won’t work for $50/hr, and I didn’t spend nearly as much time or money on my education. You’re not really making the point you think you are.
Maybe an unpopular opinion, but I have long thought that most Doctors are overpaid. Most just rinse and repeat very mundane things over and over again and send you to a specialist with your outside of mundane. A nurse would be just as effective for most ailments. Not saying all Drs as some are exceptional and lead the charge of research and change but most get their degree and then stagnate and enjoy the good life.
While I do think we need to better employ nurses for first line treatment, and I want to say this with the upmost respect for the profession, a lot of nurses are dumb as shit. We’ve see so so so sooooo many being antivax during the pandemic.
Nurse Practitioner? Sure.
Registered Nurse? No, they don’t have the training for it. Some have picked up skills through practical experience, but that’s an exception to the rule.
EDIT just want to clarify nurses don’t have the training in diagnosis, similar to how doctors don’t have much training in care.
My only wish is for doctors who have immigrated to be properly vetted before starting work in my country. Tried to get help for sudden, rather violent allergic reactions a couple of years ago. The first doctor told me to avoid fish on pizza and sent me home. The second thought it could be soda or energy drinks and did the same. Only after ending up in the ER swollen to shit did I get tested. Turns out it was neither pizza nor dr.pepper.
To be fair Dr. Pepper and pizza will kill you, eventually.
Living will also kill you, eventually.
Context: They are not unfair.
They are just not as outrageously and ridiculously high as say, American medical salaries, in the aggregate.
I mean, one is Socialised healthcare, the other is whatever private insurance madness Americans have. Where people can lose their home due to a broken leg, in fees. That is not really happening in Finland or Canada. Unless it is some extreme case.
The article heavily leans on Ontario and what doesn’t work.
If anyone wondering how things are going for a province the adopted a payment system less focused on volume.
700 more family physicians in B.C. since payment revamp: doctors
Right wing lunatics point out that BC has fared worse. Despite the evidence that you just shared.
I don’t care about facts. I just want to fuck Trudeau!!!
/s
I mean, I get it. As a member of the follicly-challenged community, I too want to tussle his hair. I just wouldn’t put stickers on my vehicle. How gauche!
See Korea