Nougat
I am trying to focus on posting source documents, as opposed to someone else’s reporting on source documents.
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I am definitely curious as to how this impacts his Georgia plea agreement.
You seem like someone who might be interested in !OriginalDocuments. link
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It’ll be a minor hassle when you go to get a car loan, and forget that your credit is frozen - but you will be able to temporarily unfreeze it from your phone.
Those end joints (often called “tie rod ends,” since they were part of the “tie rod” before rack and pinion steering became popular) operate just lilke the ball joints do, except their job is turning the drive wheels via the steering wheel. Remember how I said that the lower ball joints were a good design, because they came in from the top? These end joints come in from the bottom. That’s not necessarily a “bad” design, but it does mean that if the nuts that hold them on are loose, they can drop out of the steering knuckle and cause the kind of failure we’re talking about. I also do not see a cotter pin in this image, which would contain the nut and prevent it from loosening all the way off the end joint.
However, as I have mentioned more than once, an assembly failure which undertorqued that nut would not happen “all of a sudden.” There would be - yes, again - ample warning to the driver that “oh shit, something is really wrong here” before the wheel became completely separated from the steering rack.
That’s really about it. I’ll mention again that none of this is “new technology.” These are the same kinds of suspension components which have existed in cars for decades. No failure which would result in
“suspension collapse” or “wheel fell off” could possibly occur without plenty of warning symptoms before either of those happened.
Based on what I’ve seen through these diagrams, it seems that the most likely failure would be that last one, where the steering end joint becomes disconnected from the steering knuckle. It would still come with those warning signs, but by comparison to other possible failures, those signs would be the “least noticeable” (still very noticeable, just less than for the control arms).
The article barely even mentions which Tesla model(s) are involved here, only noting one person’s Model X. So let’s go with a Model X. And since there’s been talk of a Tesla with 115 miles on it, we’ll go with 2021 and newer.
Steering knuckle and wheel hub/bearing The weak link in these parts is going to be the wheel studs and lug nuts. A failure here is going to happen there before anything else, and will likely be due to (as I said) improperly torqued lug nuts. If those (or the bolts that hold the hub in?) somehow fail, there’s going to be ample warning in the form of noise, vibration, etc., before the wheel becomes separated from the vehicle. Everything else here is extremely thick steel. Nothing about this design is inherently different from any other vehicle.
Front control arms The Model X apparently has one front upper control arm and two front lower control arms. These mount to the frame on the inside via bushings, and on the outside via ball joints. The existence of upper control arms means that the front suspension does not depend on the upper strut mount as a pivot point for the steering; that pivot point is the upper ball joint here. This also means that a failure of the strut mount would not result in a condition that could be described as “the wheel fell off.”
Of particular note about the lower control arms - I am used to seeing front lower control arms have the ball joints inserted from the bottom of the steering knuckle. This design has the ball joints inserted from the top side, and the nuts attached at the bottom. This is a safer design, since a loose nut would not cause the control arm to fall out of the knuckle. In any case, if a piece of hardware attaching these control arms failed, the wheel would not “fall off,” nor would the suspension “collapse.” It would be more difficult (though not impossible) to drive, there would be excessive noise and crazy vibration.
The weak points in the control arms themselves (for the purposes of our discussion) would be the ball joints. Ball joints simply do not fail suddenly and without warning. The joint can be extremely loose inside the part of the control arm which captures it and still leave the driver with enough control to safely steer the vehicle off the road (which a sensible driver would do, because it would be clear that something was horribly wrong).
The lower control arms pictured appear to be cast, while the uppers may be stamped, with welded on ends. Could one of those welds fail? As previously mentioned, yes, but it would be highly unlikely, and even if the weld at the single upper ball joint failed, it would not fail all at once. At the very least, the steering wheel would pull noticeably in one direction or the other, or the steering would be very “loose,” as the affected wheel would not be tracking normally.
I will reiterate here that this kind of failure would be highly unusual. Automobile suspension is not some crazy new-fangled thing; this type of suspension has been around for decades, and nothing being done in this design demands any kind of special skill to put together or manufacture.
Front air spring The top of this component bolts to the “shock tower,” and the bottom bolts to the rear lower control arm. No failure of this part would cause the “wheel to fall off,” and the only way it could be involed in “suspension collapse” is if the lower mounting bolt were to shear off at both ends simultaneously. Even then, the bottom yoke of the spring would remain captive around the lower control arm. It would be very bad, but you’d still be able to drive the vehicle safely off the roadway (while it made horrible noises and vibrations).
Steering Here we see the steering rack and the rack end joints. Something I find very interesting here is that Tesla … doesn’t sell the ends separately from the steering rack? This seems absolutely bonkers, since those joints are far more or a “wear item” than the steering rack itself.
But I digress. (cont’d next comment)
Again, suspension components do not go from “working perfectly” to “catastrophically failed” without passing through an easily notable period of “oh shit, something is seriously wrong here, I should stop.” A light bulb can fail that way; when there is a functioning electrical circuit, the light works, and when the circuit is broken, it doesn’t. But we’re taking about suspension components. These are (even if they are shoddily manufactured) very beefy metal components. Even when strut mounts, ball joints, tie rod ends, control arm bushings, springs, axles, and wheel hubs fail, they become extremely loose long before the failure escalates to something which could be called “suspension collapse” or “wheel fell off.”
Is it entirely impossible for that to happen? The only scenario I can think of is if a front lower control arm snapped. Not the ball joint at one end of it, or the bushings at the other, but the actual control arm. It’s possible, but highly unlikely - especially at 115 miles, again even if the part was manufactured shoddily.
There’s a giant hole in the reporting here, to the point where the catastrophic failure events being reported only have a reasonable explanation if the driver ignored obvious warning signs.
I didn’t make up anything. I’m not saying Tesla doesn’t have some serious QC issues. Clearly they do.
What I’m saying is that “wheel fell off” and “suspension collapse” are not specific enough descriptions to know exactly what part(s) are failing prematurely or why or how one failure cascades into other damage. My descriptions above of potential failure scenarios are reasonably probable. I will also stand behind the notion that 115-mile guy had to have experienced horrible vibration, or scraping, or noise for at least several miles before “the vehicle’s front-right suspension … collapsed” – whatever that actually means.
“Front wheel fell off” could mean a bunch of different things here. If the wheel actually became wholly separated from the vehicle, at 15,000 miles, that would most likely be due to incorrectly torqued lug nuts after a tire rotation. Those torque specs are important, and undertorqued lug nuts can work themselves loose, putting undue stresses on the lug bolts, which snap, and there you go. Such a situation would not be Tesla’s fault, rather the fault of whoever rotated the tires.
Or, “front wheel fell off” could mean something like a ball joint or tie rod end failure, which could cascade into a very unusual wheel position, easily described as “fell off,” while still being connected to the car by the strut mount. That kind of failure would be Tesla’s fault, and would align with the mentioned “collapsed suspensions.”
In any case, the car would make incredibly horrible noises and vibrations well before a catastrophic failure. These kinds of mechanical suspension parts do not go from “perfectly fine” to “completely failed” in the blink of an eye, even if they do fail far before they should. I’m not putting the blame for the failure on the driver of the car, but I have no problem blaming the driver for letting a situation like that get to the point of catastrophic failure on a brand new car.
Edit: @TheChurn - care to tell me what I said to deserve your downvote?
Worth it for me. I spend more time in this basement office than anywhere else, by a longshot. I don’t have to wonder. I don’t have to wait while results from a test kit get back. I don’t have to worry about “Eh, I’ll get another test kit … later.” This is how I knew I needed to replace my first active radon fan with a new one: the alarm went off. The detector I have has been clicking along for many years; I have definitely saved money and worry in the long term.
Just get a plug in one that’s always on. This is the one you want. They used to be the only company that made such a thing; since I bought mine (a 3rd gen) a bunch of years ago, the nonsense companies have also started making them.
Building codes where I am, outside of Chicago, have required all new homes to have passive radon venting installed during construction for at least twenty years. This is a length of PVC pipe that runs from just inside the sump pit in the basement (lowest point) all the way through the house and up out the roof. The sump pit also has a sealed plastic cover bolted on.
It’s then elementary to buy a radon fan and install it in that PVC pipe in the attic, making it an active system. You want to have less than 4pCi/l (picocuries per liter) radiation. My basement office used to be like 23pCi/l. After installing a fan (and then later replacing it when the first one stopped doing its job), it’s at 1.6pCi/l.
Most of the radon tests out there are “single use,” where you set the test down, wait for some period of time, send it off to be analyzed. These are like US$20 or US$30. One company makes a plug-in detector that runs all the time, and alarms when it’s over 4pCi/l. It’s about US$130, and worth every penny if you have a finished basement and anyone spends time in it.
Edit: A quick look at Amazon shows that the garbage companies are now making always on radon detectors. This is new since I bought mine like five or six years ago. You want a SafetySiren brand, and the newest model is now US$180 on Amazon.
Increasing supply is increasing short term demand, while decreasing long term demand. If you can make it so that people are able to get regular care for well visits, checkups, and attention to relatively minor concerns (increasing supply and demand), you reduce the incidence of more severe health concerns by catching things early (reducing crisis demand).
The former would need to include not only lots of GPs, but also the cultural ability to take time off work for doctor’s visits, and childcare, and transportation.
Even in the context of the US First Amendment, which makes it so that the government cannot abridge your right to free speech, it’s not unlimited. Think “Yelling ‘fire’ in a crowded theater, when there’s no fire,” or libel/slander, or terroristic threats, or, I dunno, witness tampering.
There’s lots of speech which must yield to other rights and protections.
I have been following this case closely, and that temporary hold is already lifted.
Not being snarky, I really want to know: source?
And that doesn’t include the very real prison time he’s facing thanks to the generous RICO laws in Georgia …
In fact, the penalty for a RICO conviction in Georgia is 5-20 years in prison and/or a fine of not more than $25,000 or three times the pecuniary value gained from the criminal enterprise.
That “or” is gonna do some heavy lifting.
a. Any person convicted of the offense of engaging in activity in violation of Code Section 16-14-4 shall be guilty of a felony and shall be punished by not less than five nor more than 20 years’ imprisonment or the fine specified in subsection (b) of this Code section, or both.
b. In lieu of any fine otherwise authorized by law, any person convicted of the offense of engaging in conduct in violation of Code Section 16-14-4 may be sentenced to pay a fine that does not exceed the greater of $25,000.00 or three times the amount of any pecuniary value gained by him or her from such violation.
Another thing that stood out to me is how she is absolutely incapable of keeping a smarmy smirk off of her face, throughout all of her responses admitting guilt - until it was time for her to read that letter, then here come the waterworks.
Bets on who’s going to flip next? I think Misty Hampton probably will go soon. She’s such a low end player, and the other two involved with Coffee County already pleaded (Powell and Hall). Ray Smith, I believe, was one of the two co-conspirators named in this hearing with Ellis in the Dec 3, 2020 presentation to the GA Senate committee - along with Guiliani. Pressure has got to be mounting on Rudy pretty hard, considering he’s broke now, but he’s so wacko (or drunk), who knows what’s going on in his head.
- Nougat to
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They can’t get their desires enacted through the democratic process, but they can elect people who will just break the rules and dare anyone to stop them. This is Trump’s modus operandi, as well as DeSantis’, and probably many of the Republican presidential hopefuls.
The Nazi party managed to gain a plurality of seats in the Reichstag in 1933, although they were just short of a majority. Hitler became Chancellor, a position held by the leader of the strongest party in the Reichstag (a little bit like Speaker of the House), appointed by President von Hindenburg. When von Hindenburg died in 1934, and in the wake of the 1933 Enabling Act, Hitler assumed the presidency alongside being Chancellor, giving him dictatorial power.
About 90 years ago, the Third Reich was elected. It is dangerously foolish to think the United States is immune to such a thing.
Oh, there’s going to be more violence, both in quantity and intensity. “When,” not “if.” Vigilance is necessary now more than ever.
Joy Reid on MSNBC made a point the other day that got me to finally understand why people embrace fascism: “Are we witnessing the end of politics?” There is a minority of people whose shitty ideas cannot be enacted politically via the democratic process, and so they are rejecting democracy in favor of violence and authoritarianism. In order for this to have a real effect, that minority must be large enough that they can’t simply be controlled by democratic principles, and small enough that they can’t get their agenda put in place politically.
Their last gasp before becoming full and open fascists is sneaking fascists into government. DeSantis as governor of Florida, Trump as president, all of his federal and SCOTUS judgeship appointments. I’d bet that Canada has corrolaries to those examples. The UK is doing the same thing. If fascists achieve enough power within the democratic framework, the only way out is revolution.
Down here outside of Chicago, where I’ve lived all my life, my kids continually teach me about how culture is changing for the better, oftentimes without even being aware of what they’re doing. They just do things better, because that’s the world they’re growing up in, and teach by example effortlessly. They don’t see the change so much; they are the change. I can see it, and I try to point out the change when I can (“Back in my day …”).
And we didn’t move to anywhere from anywhere. Culture is changing, and it’s changing for the better. Where it seems to be getting worse - it’s always been that bad. Those people are just getting louder as they dig their heels in deeper.
That’s just God telling you to go to the bad gateway.