Check out a 29 minute gameplay demo of Path of Exile 2 that was showcased during Exilecon 2023. We get a glimpse of Act 3 showcasing the Monk and Sorcerer. I...
It looks cool, but frankly I’m far more interested in how it’s going to be monetized. I bought into PoE early access back in the day but stopped playing after a few years because I got fed up with how its game design is compromised in order to accommodate its business model. Specialized stash tabs for currency, maps, cards, etc. are basically a mandatory purchase, since inventory management is hell without them. Maybe this is an unpopular opinion, but IMO deliberately introducing game design problems, such as tedious inventory management, so that you can sell the solutions is a scummy practice. The same goes for drop rates, which are frustratingly low in order to force you to trade instead of finding your gear yourself, since in order to trade effectively, you need to buy a few premium tabs. Even though I actually made all these purchases to overcome these artificial hindrances, being squeezed like that left such a bad taste in my mouth that I just couldn’t enjoy the game anymore. If they keep this up in PoE2, I’m going to steer well clear.
On the one hand I totally agree, on the other hand I spent like 40€ on PoE for everything I wanted and got way more gameplay out of it than of many full price games.
Yeah, hard to criticize the model when you can just get everything you need for less then the price of a AAA game. It just makes it a “free to try” game, instead of a truly free to play one, and that’s fine.
And besides, in recent leagues they have gone less hard on the specialized stash tabs model, and more on the cosmetic one. They haven’t added a league specific stash tab since delirium league, and that was over 3 years ago.
I also have a lot of playtime in it, but most of it wasn’t really quality time. I tried real hard to like the game, but in hindsight I should’ve given up on it way sooner. Even with all the tabs, inventory management is still a nightmare. I hate the currency system with a passion, I resent the fact that there’s no loot vacuum, I despise having to manually identify items. I don’t like trading, and trying to find my own gear was like being rolled around in a zorbing ball made out of sandpaper. There’s way too much friction everywhere in the system for no good reason. I love the core gameplay, the monsters have cool designs and are fun to kill, the skills feel punchy and satisfying to use… It’s just the overarching structure built around that that ruins it for me. Shame.
In modern ARPGs, you automatically pick up currency just by being near it. In PoE, you have to individually click each currency item to pick it up. Given that PoE has a very sophisticated loot filter system, I find it very strange that it requires so much clicking to pick stuff up. You’ve already decided what loot you want to pick up when you set up your loot filter, so the clicking is mostly superfluous and could be automated. IMO that would make the game play much better, since having to stop to pick up loot interrupts the gameplay and breaks the flow.
That would require every player even new ones to make very complex loot filters and understand what loot is valuable and not to automate it.
Every item in PoE that is automatically picked up doesn’t take up inventory space (Metamorph organs, Expedition fragments, Sulphite, Azurite). The concept is that players make an active decision of what they’re picking up and that they’re aware of what they have because they made an active decision to pick it up.
It doesn’t take control of their inventory away from the players.
It also feeds into the dopamine loop, when you get an exciting drop you see it on the ground it doesn’t automatically just get sucked into your inventory.
That would require every player even new ones to make very complex loot filters and understand what loot is valuable and not to automate it.
No, it wouldn’t, because it would not be mandatory (just like loot filters themselves aren’t).
Every item in PoE that is automatically picked up doesn’t take up inventory space (Metamorph organs, Expedition fragments, Sulphite, Azurite).
You’re this close to getting it. The extremely limited inventory space in PoE and other ARPGs is a severe design defect, the games would be much better if inventory space was simply infinite. I’ve had a long and complex discussion about this very topic with someone just a day or two ago, so I don’t feel like explaining myself on this point all over again. Feel free to check that if you’re interested.
It also feeds into the dopamine loop, when you get an exciting drop you see it on the ground it doesn’t automatically just get sucked into your inventory.
That would be much better solved by having a pop-up show you the exciting drop as you automatically pick it up. That way the player would still get their dopamine hit without the game also constantly filling their annoyance meter by making them pick up garbage manually.
It’s all in what you think is worth it. For me, it’s my favorite genre. I have spent about $400 or maybe $500 for over 2500 hours of gaming since the beta in PoE which is way less per hour than most games I’ve paid for up front. It’s worth it to me for playing a fun game for all that time. I also don’t really think they purposely design the game to need stash tabs. It’s just what it is. Look at D4 and all the people complaining they can’t buy more. They obviously didn’t design it like that. It’s just that type of game.
Bottom line for me is I haven’t spent money in that game in years and still play every league because everything I ever bought is still there and will be in PoE2 as well from what they say. I wonder about the tabs…
I actually love PoE’s inventory management, but I play the game “wrong.” I hardly ever trade, except to grab a cheap unique here or there that enables a build. I pick up and manually ID all the items that could be useful, even knowing that there’s only like a 1/10,000 chance that they actually are. I pick up all currency, even portal scrolls. I clear maps at a pace that might be described as “puttering.” And typically I RIP early in maps and start the league over, so most of my playtime is in the story, where successive characters can pick through my stash for junk my old character was hoarding for no reason, that might now have some use for levelling a different build.
You’re basically playing PoE like an incremental game. Your first character advances at a glacial pace, and dies. Your stash is basically prestige currency your next character can draw from to be faster. And so on and so forth.
man I’m glad that works for you but that sounds awful to me. I would make so many more alts in poe if it weren’t for the torturously boring and needlessly long campaign.
…but IMO deliberately introducing game design problems so that you can sell the solutions is a scummy practice.
This isn’t your personal opinion. This is a valid complaint from many avid gamers. I am not one of these avid gamers. However, I have read about this issue from many gamers in this particular space (i.e. non-casual players).
I dunno, the game seems extremely popular and successful despite this, so clearly a lot of people don’t mind. It’s hard to gauge what the majority opinion is.
They’ve said that all microtransactions from PoE1 will carry over to PoE2, which implies that all of those stash tab requirements will still exist, and we can presume they’ll just keep adding more.
Wasn’t that back when PoE2 was supposed to just be a big update to PoE1? I haven’t followed the development news all that closely, but I know that used to be the plan.
Nope, they said it again during the live stream where they had two people play part of the third act this exile con. Every mtx that effects something that is present in both games will be shared between them. I’d guess stash tabs will be included in both games, so those should carry over.
There was a (recent) PCGamer article that specifically called out stash tabs as being something that would be shared… I don’t know if they were basing that on anything or just speculating, but as you note, it seems obvious that that mechanic would be in both games.
Completely disagree. It’s a good game made by good people. You can finish the campaign with just the default tabs, then can buy more tabs if you are enjoying the game.
It is a game developer driven by passion and not corporate profits.
It’s an online ARPG, the campaign is basically just a tutorial, the real meat of the game is in the endgame. So yes, you’re right that you can finish the campaign just fine without making any purchases, but that’s not saying much. Also, the low drop rates will kick your butt throughout the campaign and forever after regardless of whether you make a purchase or not.
I guess, but lots of players do Solo Self Found, ignoring trade entirely. It’s like doing race mode.
Depending on the build you’re going for, it can be more fun. Sucks if you need specific build-enabling uniques that you can’t farm for with div cards, but it works well for lots of builds.
You can still trade between your different characters on the same account, too, so it can be fun to create a character for the items you’ve found.
You get tens of hours of high-quality gameplay for free when you go through the campaign. How is that not saying much? I feel like it is not a bad deal at all. If you like the game when you probably need to drop some money to get most out of the experience. I think that’s fine. Though it is a fine line where they are walking in terms of monetization through inventory management. Would be interesting to know how large portion of the income is from stash tabs etc vs cosmetics.
You get tens of hours of high-quality gameplay for free when you go through the campaign. How is that not saying much?
Because the high quality doesn’t come in until way later. When you’re playing through the campaign for the first time, you have neither the knowledge nor the resources to make a proper build, so the gameplay is very bland in comparison to what you can do later. Which means that the fact that the campaign is so long is actually a negative. It’s a tutorial that takes like twenty hours to slog through. This seems to be a common problem with free-to-play games. Warframe devs acknowledge and joke about the fact that the game starts getting good a hundred hours in.
In comparison to how the game is once you get a proper build going, yes, the campaign is bland as hell. Basically all ARPGs are like this due to the way their progression works.
Many (most) people have not had fun playing the campaign in PoE 1. And we sure as hell hope GGG s doesn’t listen to people who only play through the campaign and quit. Although they don’t spend any money so it shouldn’t be an issue.
I should play the campaign through again. Haven’t played the game after the 10 acts became a thing so essentially I’m just a noob again. I’ve mostly read that people are sick of the campaign because they have already played it a billion times, and not that first timers are having a bad time.
You are not logged in. However you can subscribe from another Fediverse account, for example Lemmy or Mastodon. To do this, paste the following into the search field of your instance: !gaming@beehaw.org
From video gaming to card games and stuff in between, if it’s gaming you can probably discuss it here!
Please Note: Gaming memes are permitted to be posted on Meme Mondays, but will otherwise be removed in an effort to allow other discussions to take place.
It looks cool, but frankly I’m far more interested in how it’s going to be monetized. I bought into PoE early access back in the day but stopped playing after a few years because I got fed up with how its game design is compromised in order to accommodate its business model. Specialized stash tabs for currency, maps, cards, etc. are basically a mandatory purchase, since inventory management is hell without them. Maybe this is an unpopular opinion, but IMO deliberately introducing game design problems, such as tedious inventory management, so that you can sell the solutions is a scummy practice. The same goes for drop rates, which are frustratingly low in order to force you to trade instead of finding your gear yourself, since in order to trade effectively, you need to buy a few premium tabs. Even though I actually made all these purchases to overcome these artificial hindrances, being squeezed like that left such a bad taste in my mouth that I just couldn’t enjoy the game anymore. If they keep this up in PoE2, I’m going to steer well clear.
they havent added any new special stash tabs to store for a while. heist and expedition storage is free
On the one hand I totally agree, on the other hand I spent like 40€ on PoE for everything I wanted and got way more gameplay out of it than of many full price games.
Yeah, hard to criticize the model when you can just get everything you need for less then the price of a AAA game. It just makes it a “free to try” game, instead of a truly free to play one, and that’s fine.
And besides, in recent leagues they have gone less hard on the specialized stash tabs model, and more on the cosmetic one. They haven’t added a league specific stash tab since delirium league, and that was over 3 years ago.
I also have a lot of playtime in it, but most of it wasn’t really quality time. I tried real hard to like the game, but in hindsight I should’ve given up on it way sooner. Even with all the tabs, inventory management is still a nightmare. I hate the currency system with a passion, I resent the fact that there’s no loot vacuum, I despise having to manually identify items. I don’t like trading, and trying to find my own gear was like being rolled around in a zorbing ball made out of sandpaper. There’s way too much friction everywhere in the system for no good reason. I love the core gameplay, the monsters have cool designs and are fun to kill, the skills feel punchy and satisfying to use… It’s just the overarching structure built around that that ruins it for me. Shame.
Can you elaborate?
In modern ARPGs, you automatically pick up currency just by being near it. In PoE, you have to individually click each currency item to pick it up. Given that PoE has a very sophisticated loot filter system, I find it very strange that it requires so much clicking to pick stuff up. You’ve already decided what loot you want to pick up when you set up your loot filter, so the clicking is mostly superfluous and could be automated. IMO that would make the game play much better, since having to stop to pick up loot interrupts the gameplay and breaks the flow.
That would require every player even new ones to make very complex loot filters and understand what loot is valuable and not to automate it.
Every item in PoE that is automatically picked up doesn’t take up inventory space (Metamorph organs, Expedition fragments, Sulphite, Azurite). The concept is that players make an active decision of what they’re picking up and that they’re aware of what they have because they made an active decision to pick it up.
It doesn’t take control of their inventory away from the players.
It also feeds into the dopamine loop, when you get an exciting drop you see it on the ground it doesn’t automatically just get sucked into your inventory.
No, it wouldn’t, because it would not be mandatory (just like loot filters themselves aren’t).
You’re this close to getting it. The extremely limited inventory space in PoE and other ARPGs is a severe design defect, the games would be much better if inventory space was simply infinite. I’ve had a long and complex discussion about this very topic with someone just a day or two ago, so I don’t feel like explaining myself on this point all over again. Feel free to check that if you’re interested.
That would be much better solved by having a pop-up show you the exciting drop as you automatically pick it up. That way the player would still get their dopamine hit without the game also constantly filling their annoyance meter by making them pick up garbage manually.
It’s all in what you think is worth it. For me, it’s my favorite genre. I have spent about $400 or maybe $500 for over 2500 hours of gaming since the beta in PoE which is way less per hour than most games I’ve paid for up front. It’s worth it to me for playing a fun game for all that time. I also don’t really think they purposely design the game to need stash tabs. It’s just what it is. Look at D4 and all the people complaining they can’t buy more. They obviously didn’t design it like that. It’s just that type of game.
Bottom line for me is I haven’t spent money in that game in years and still play every league because everything I ever bought is still there and will be in PoE2 as well from what they say. I wonder about the tabs…
I too enjoy the genre but don’t have any games to play. Can you recommend a new-ish game worth playing?
(gonna pass on D4 tho ;)
Chronicon was pretty fun. Mini healer too.
Looks like fun! Thanks
I actually love PoE’s inventory management, but I play the game “wrong.” I hardly ever trade, except to grab a cheap unique here or there that enables a build. I pick up and manually ID all the items that could be useful, even knowing that there’s only like a 1/10,000 chance that they actually are. I pick up all currency, even portal scrolls. I clear maps at a pace that might be described as “puttering.” And typically I RIP early in maps and start the league over, so most of my playtime is in the story, where successive characters can pick through my stash for junk my old character was hoarding for no reason, that might now have some use for levelling a different build.
It’s probably my favorite ARPG.
You’re basically playing PoE like an incremental game. Your first character advances at a glacial pace, and dies. Your stash is basically prestige currency your next character can draw from to be faster. And so on and so forth.
I kind of love it.
man I’m glad that works for you but that sounds awful to me. I would make so many more alts in poe if it weren’t for the torturously boring and needlessly long campaign.
This isn’t your personal opinion. This is a valid complaint from many avid gamers. I am not one of these avid gamers. However, I have read about this issue from many gamers in this particular space (i.e. non-casual players).
I dunno, the game seems extremely popular and successful despite this, so clearly a lot of people don’t mind. It’s hard to gauge what the majority opinion is.
Right…It is hard to gauge this…I’m just going off of all the ‘talk’ that is seen/read on social media.
Uhm the game is free?
I didn’t play PoE1.
They’ve said that all microtransactions from PoE1 will carry over to PoE2, which implies that all of those stash tab requirements will still exist, and we can presume they’ll just keep adding more.
Wasn’t that back when PoE2 was supposed to just be a big update to PoE1? I haven’t followed the development news all that closely, but I know that used to be the plan.
Nope, they said it again during the live stream where they had two people play part of the third act this exile con. Every mtx that effects something that is present in both games will be shared between them. I’d guess stash tabs will be included in both games, so those should carry over.
There was a (recent) PCGamer article that specifically called out stash tabs as being something that would be shared… I don’t know if they were basing that on anything or just speculating, but as you note, it seems obvious that that mechanic would be in both games.
Completely disagree. It’s a good game made by good people. You can finish the campaign with just the default tabs, then can buy more tabs if you are enjoying the game.
It is a game developer driven by passion and not corporate profits.
It’s an online ARPG, the campaign is basically just a tutorial, the real meat of the game is in the endgame. So yes, you’re right that you can finish the campaign just fine without making any purchases, but that’s not saying much. Also, the low drop rates will kick your butt throughout the campaign and forever after regardless of whether you make a purchase or not.
I guess, but lots of players do Solo Self Found, ignoring trade entirely. It’s like doing race mode.
Depending on the build you’re going for, it can be more fun. Sucks if you need specific build-enabling uniques that you can’t farm for with div cards, but it works well for lots of builds.
You can still trade between your different characters on the same account, too, so it can be fun to create a character for the items you’ve found.
You get tens of hours of high-quality gameplay for free when you go through the campaign. How is that not saying much? I feel like it is not a bad deal at all. If you like the game when you probably need to drop some money to get most out of the experience. I think that’s fine. Though it is a fine line where they are walking in terms of monetization through inventory management. Would be interesting to know how large portion of the income is from stash tabs etc vs cosmetics.
Because the high quality doesn’t come in until way later. When you’re playing through the campaign for the first time, you have neither the knowledge nor the resources to make a proper build, so the gameplay is very bland in comparison to what you can do later. Which means that the fact that the campaign is so long is actually a negative. It’s a tutorial that takes like twenty hours to slog through. This seems to be a common problem with free-to-play games. Warframe devs acknowledge and joke about the fact that the game starts getting good a hundred hours in.
Bland, really? I’ve never thought it being bland. Though I have not played the game aftee the 10 acts became a thing so maybe it has changed.
In comparison to how the game is once you get a proper build going, yes, the campaign is bland as hell. Basically all ARPGs are like this due to the way their progression works.
Many (most) people have not had fun playing the campaign in PoE 1. And we sure as hell hope GGG s doesn’t listen to people who only play through the campaign and quit. Although they don’t spend any money so it shouldn’t be an issue.
I should play the campaign through again. Haven’t played the game after the 10 acts became a thing so essentially I’m just a noob again. I’ve mostly read that people are sick of the campaign because they have already played it a billion times, and not that first timers are having a bad time.
Diablo 4 retails for $70. If you spent less than that on PoE, I’d say you’re getting a good deal.