I’m an 8 year data center network engineer who recently broke 100k for the first time. When I got asked my salary requirements I actually only asked for 90k as my highest previous salary was 80k with lots of travel, then I found out they gave me 100k because it was the minimum they could pay someone in my position. I’ve read before about people making crazy salary increases (150%-300%) and am wondering if I played it incorrectly and how I could play it in the future. I plan to stay with my company for the next few years and upskilling heavily and am eyeing a promotion in my first year as I’ve already delivered big projects by contributing very early. I’ve progressed from call center/help desk/engineer etc (no degree, just certs) so my progression has been pretty linear, are people who are seeing massive jumps in pay just overselling their competency and failing forward? Or are there other fields in IT like programming/etc that are more likely to have higher progression scales?
When someone asks what you were paid or what your salary expectations are, ask them what the budget is for the role. They have one. They will not want to tell you, and you shouldn’t tell them your expectations
A range gives you flexibility. I hope for the high end, sure, but I know they’ll go for the low end so I throw a range where I’d be happy with the low.
Since it’s a range, it’s easy to say No way I’d work for you for less than [low end].
If you give a fixed value they’ll low ball it and you’ll generally end up in.between theirs and yours, so you’ll have to aim high.
If you give a fixed value they’ll low ball it and you’ll generally end up in.between theirs and yours, so you’ll have to aim high.
Exactly. That’s why you say a specific number, which you hope you’ll get (which is a high end of your range), but in your mind be prepared to accept a lower offer (which is a low end of your range). If you say a range it’s like if you said just the low end of the range, the high end doesn’t matter anymore to the recruiter.
That’s at least what I’ve been doing recently and it usually works well.
I did this several times and never got a proper reply. They say stuff like “It depends on the person and is calculated individually”. You can’t really argue over that unless you’re willing to be very pushy or just straight up walk away from the table - which is something you don’t want to do in most cases.
Why not be pushy? Why not be willing to walk away? Everyone’s situation differs but a server tech is not going to be lacking for work opportunities. If it’s calculated individually, you say “ok what would it be in my case?”
If they say “it depends on what you’re paid now” that’s a HUGE red flag and you should walk
Yeah, in my case, the decision to hire me had been made, but HR would of course onboard me. I got kind of blindsided as the person who asked me wasn’t the person who would be making the decision, she was basically a proxy. I asked what the range was and I got some generic “it depends”… I checked most of the boxes for skills but I don’t have a degree and for some reason that’s off-putting to large companies. Anyways yeah it didn’t feel right to be pushy so early
Not everyone’s opportunities are the same. If you can afford to be pushy and can afford to walk away, then sure - do that. However, I personally would not put the whole opportunity on the line and walk away just because a recruiter won’t tell me a range. In my last interview they didn’t give me any range, while I gave them my expectation, which was a bit inflated, and they just accepted my offer. Could I get more if I knew the range? Probably. But I can’t be mad at them, as they matched my expectation. And I enjoy the job so far.
It all depends on the situation, as you also mentioned.
I’m just arguing that saying “walk away if they don’t tell you a range” is a bit of an exaggeration and might do more harm to some people than good.
It’s a negotiation. Unless you have a lot of knowledge about the industry you’re working in and what market salaries are, you’re at a disadvantage. You don’t have to say a number. They do - they’re offering you a job. If they refuse to offer you the job until you tell them your salary desire, they are trying to low ball you and you likely don’t want to work there.
Unless you have enough knowledge of pay for your position and industry you are operating at a disadvantage. You are not obligated to provide a number to start the negotiations, and asking them what the budget is is not “denying the negotiation”
You are interviewing and the interviewer usually asks the questions. After all the interviewer already has a job and you are supposedly looking for one. In this scenario you are always operating at a disadvantage, because I know the budget and you don’t.
You are not obligated to provide a number by law or anything, but if I ask for one and you go “no you” that is just… Weird and unprofessional.
I’ll end the discussion here though and wish you all the best with your future negotiations. I just wanted to provide a counter point from the perspective of an IT manager.
I’m also an IT manager. I lead a large team and manage managers and engineers from entry level to staff engineer. If I interviewed with you I’d skip out the door and tell everyone to avoid your company like the plague.
It’s dishonest to say “it’s ok for me to ask the candidate to name a salary but not ok for them to ask me.” That’s how we get pay inequity and ensure that workers’ power is diminished. “Usually the interviewer asks the questions” is WILD. I make sure to give candidates multiple opportunities to ask questions and provide honest answers. The idea that they would begin to ask a question and I’d say “well thanks for your time but we’re done here” is legitimately hilarious.
Maybe you’re hiring for extremely entry level positions (like…cashier) or something where the job is extremely well defined and you’re looking for a pair of hands to do a job but I want to hire the kind of people who ask these questions.
even then, a position may not be for a certain level so they’re can be a fairly wide band of pay depending on how the interview goes.
i think most folks vastly overthink it. just ask for the money you want to make. either it’s in the ballpark or it’s not. all this “don’t say a number first” stuff is bullshit imo.
you definitely do want to know if your desired pay matches their range though. that’s very important.
Truth is this is an antagonistic negotiation oftentimes. You want to be paid more, they want to pay you as little as possible. There’s unfortunately no playbook, just advice and experience.
FWIW if they were that evasive I’d just say “look I’m not going to name an initial number, I’d like you to name a range.” But I’m at a somewhat senior level so I have a different experience than others might
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When someone asks what you were paid or what your salary expectations are, ask them what the budget is for the role. They have one. They will not want to tell you, and you shouldn’t tell them your expectations
I usually follow it up with a salary range and they end up matching the lower bound.
Yeah, saying a range makes no sense. You hope for the high end, but all they hear is the low end. I always say a specific number.
A range gives you flexibility. I hope for the high end, sure, but I know they’ll go for the low end so I throw a range where I’d be happy with the low.
Since it’s a range, it’s easy to say No way I’d work for you for less than [low end].
If you give a fixed value they’ll low ball it and you’ll generally end up in.between theirs and yours, so you’ll have to aim high.
Exactly. That’s why you say a specific number, which you hope you’ll get (which is a high end of your range), but in your mind be prepared to accept a lower offer (which is a low end of your range). If you say a range it’s like if you said just the low end of the range, the high end doesn’t matter anymore to the recruiter. That’s at least what I’ve been doing recently and it usually works well.
I did this several times and never got a proper reply. They say stuff like “It depends on the person and is calculated individually”. You can’t really argue over that unless you’re willing to be very pushy or just straight up walk away from the table - which is something you don’t want to do in most cases.
Why not be pushy? Why not be willing to walk away? Everyone’s situation differs but a server tech is not going to be lacking for work opportunities. If it’s calculated individually, you say “ok what would it be in my case?”
If they say “it depends on what you’re paid now” that’s a HUGE red flag and you should walk
this is a conversation you usually have before the technical stuff. you’re making sure your ideal pay and their band is in sync.
being pushy early in the process is terrible advice.
Yeah, in my case, the decision to hire me had been made, but HR would of course onboard me. I got kind of blindsided as the person who asked me wasn’t the person who would be making the decision, she was basically a proxy. I asked what the range was and I got some generic “it depends”… I checked most of the boxes for skills but I don’t have a degree and for some reason that’s off-putting to large companies. Anyways yeah it didn’t feel right to be pushy so early
Not everyone’s opportunities are the same. If you can afford to be pushy and can afford to walk away, then sure - do that. However, I personally would not put the whole opportunity on the line and walk away just because a recruiter won’t tell me a range. In my last interview they didn’t give me any range, while I gave them my expectation, which was a bit inflated, and they just accepted my offer. Could I get more if I knew the range? Probably. But I can’t be mad at them, as they matched my expectation. And I enjoy the job so far.
It all depends on the situation, as you also mentioned. I’m just arguing that saying “walk away if they don’t tell you a range” is a bit of an exaggeration and might do more harm to some people than good.
So, what happens then?
They offer someone else the job
Yeah, exactly. People upvoted this take that won’t work for 99.9999% of people lol
Negotiating hard works fantastically well for people who work in information technology.
Then you dodged a bullet
It’s a negotiation. Unless you have a lot of knowledge about the industry you’re working in and what market salaries are, you’re at a disadvantage. You don’t have to say a number. They do - they’re offering you a job. If they refuse to offer you the job until you tell them your salary desire, they are trying to low ball you and you likely don’t want to work there.
I have never been an interviewer or interviewee where you are not supposed to give a number.
Of course they try to low ball you. You counter act by giving a number that allows you to haggle. That is how negotiation works.
A stare and patience contest begins.
As a manager that contest would be ended instantly and I’d tell you to give me a number or get out
Then you’re a bad manager, that’s not how negotiations work lol
You’re not negotiating by refusing to give a number. At this point you denied the negotiation that was started by me asking for your expectation.
Unless you have enough knowledge of pay for your position and industry you are operating at a disadvantage. You are not obligated to provide a number to start the negotiations, and asking them what the budget is is not “denying the negotiation”
You are interviewing and the interviewer usually asks the questions. After all the interviewer already has a job and you are supposedly looking for one. In this scenario you are always operating at a disadvantage, because I know the budget and you don’t.
You are not obligated to provide a number by law or anything, but if I ask for one and you go “no you” that is just… Weird and unprofessional.
I’ll end the discussion here though and wish you all the best with your future negotiations. I just wanted to provide a counter point from the perspective of an IT manager.
I’m also an IT manager. I lead a large team and manage managers and engineers from entry level to staff engineer. If I interviewed with you I’d skip out the door and tell everyone to avoid your company like the plague.
It’s dishonest to say “it’s ok for me to ask the candidate to name a salary but not ok for them to ask me.” That’s how we get pay inequity and ensure that workers’ power is diminished. “Usually the interviewer asks the questions” is WILD. I make sure to give candidates multiple opportunities to ask questions and provide honest answers. The idea that they would begin to ask a question and I’d say “well thanks for your time but we’re done here” is legitimately hilarious.
Maybe you’re hiring for extremely entry level positions (like…cashier) or something where the job is extremely well defined and you’re looking for a pair of hands to do a job but I want to hire the kind of people who ask these questions.
even then, a position may not be for a certain level so they’re can be a fairly wide band of pay depending on how the interview goes.
i think most folks vastly overthink it. just ask for the money you want to make. either it’s in the ballpark or it’s not. all this “don’t say a number first” stuff is bullshit imo.
you definitely do want to know if your desired pay matches their range though. that’s very important.
https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZT86J7mpN/
That was basically how the meeting went lol
The NDA bit got me ngl
Truth is this is an antagonistic negotiation oftentimes. You want to be paid more, they want to pay you as little as possible. There’s unfortunately no playbook, just advice and experience.
FWIW if they were that evasive I’d just say “look I’m not going to name an initial number, I’d like you to name a range.” But I’m at a somewhat senior level so I have a different experience than others might