I just received my invite code today and took a quick look around the app. Like Mastodon I do not prefer microblogging platforms. And that’s all I know about Bluesky.
It’s a microblogging service (similar to Twitter), ran by a small dev team and backed by Jack Dorsey (of Twitter origin). It’s been in “invite-only” closed beta forever so it has never really gone super mainstream. Some communities have kinda made their way over there but for the most part it seems threads and mastodon will run away with things in terms of being heirs to Twitter (imo). Bluesky is building their own platform (AT) that will allow others to stand up their own “bluesky” instances that federate with each other, similar to how mastodon works on the Fediverse with ActivityPub. Not sure what the progress is with that but am skeptical it will ever actually be a popular choice given the success of AP/Fediverse and the fact that threads and other large platforms (Wordpress, Tumblr, etc…) have already implemented or committed to building in AP support.
They chose not to after researching options. Pretty sure they decides account portability was a key feature needed and AP doesn’'t do this. As in taking your account and all your posts and data witj you to a new server. I assume there is a technical reason why this would be very difficult to add to AP/Mastodon otherwise they could have just added it themselves.
It’s nothing to do with that, they made the AT protocol because is structured in a way that ensures that bluesky (the company) will always control the network. They wouldn’t be able to keep control with ActivityPub, it’s the same reason Threads will never implement it.
All the stuff about account portability is a distraction. Think about it: where would one move an account to anyway? Another BS node? Why? Unlike Mastodon instances there is no functional difference.
So the storage layer is “neutral”, accounts are “portable”. That to me means that node operators will have no agency in the system. Discoverability/search/recommendations are done in a separate layer, and the way the system seems to be designed (nodes have no say, they just provide the data) effectively places all the power with these “reach” algorithms.
3rd party feeds and recommendations and discovery already exists. They are also not dependent on the continued existence or openness of the bluesky servers. You can control your own experience and it’s easy to find and switch between feeds. Having more subscribers to your feed doesn’t make you more powerful in the context of network effects. If people stop looking your feed they’ll dump it.
Also, node operators have full control of what they forward to clients. They can absolutely apply moderation filters, and this is one of the expected means for such nodes to market themselves to their communities - “we have default feeds and moderation which suits your community”.
So it’s a winner-takes-all system that strongly avantages whoever starts building their dataset early and can throw as much money at it as possible.
Nonsense, the network uses relay servers which acts as open CDN servers and the firehose feed is open AND 3rd party hosted feed builders already exists (and they’re open source so you can copy them), you don’t need to waste duplicate work on building datasets. This network is cooperative. It has absolutely no winner-takes-all effects, it explicitly encourages division of labor and mix-and-matching multiple 3rd party services.
Another pretty good sign that BS’s decentralization is actually b.s. is the fact that the Decentralized Identifiers (DIDs) used by BlueSky are currently “temporarily” not actually decentralized. The protocol uses something imaginatively called “DID Placeholder”. If I were a betting man I would bet that in five years it will keep on using the centralized DID Placeholder, and that that will be a root cause of a lot of shenanigans.
Then use web-DID which already is fully decentralized
Jack is not involved with bluesky anymore, he’s in nostr land now. He doesn’t have majority on the board and isn’t influencing development.
There is no way to opt-out from “reach” algorithms indexing one’s posts, as far as I can see in the ATproto and BS documentation. So fash/harassers would be able to choose an algorithm that basically recommends targets to them.
Moderation tools like this is in the works, it’s not complete yet. Mute/block filters already exists, and label services for moderation are being worked on
A whole lot of directly false nonsense and irrelevant arguments and ignorance of what the devs are working on
Yeah the not being able to fully move your account and all its history is one of the biggest shortcomings of AP for me. I hope they shore that up eventually.
AT is not truly decentralized like activitypub. It’s similar to crypto where the majority stakeholder (in this case, bluesky the for profit company) controls the network. There are not “instances” run by community leaders, just free hosting.
The only thing they control is the DID lookup for PLC type account DID values, but if you have your own domain and use web-DID they control nothing that can’t be replaced
Ah interesting. One more in the “negative” column for Bluesky then imo. What Mastodon gets right (perhaps in a sea of things that it gets wrong) is that it relies on people to build and maintain their communities, rather than hoping that technology can solve all the issues of moderation, etc… Yeah, there are improvements that we hope will get to AP. It’s obvious bsky is just not the future.
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It’s a microblogging service (similar to Twitter), ran by a small dev team and backed by Jack Dorsey (of Twitter origin). It’s been in “invite-only” closed beta forever so it has never really gone super mainstream. Some communities have kinda made their way over there but for the most part it seems threads and mastodon will run away with things in terms of being heirs to Twitter (imo). Bluesky is building their own platform (AT) that will allow others to stand up their own “bluesky” instances that federate with each other, similar to how mastodon works on the Fediverse with ActivityPub. Not sure what the progress is with that but am skeptical it will ever actually be a popular choice given the success of AP/Fediverse and the fact that threads and other large platforms (Wordpress, Tumblr, etc…) have already implemented or committed to building in AP support.
Could Bluesky not just implement ActivityPub too? Is there a reason why they are not doing that?
They could but they are developing their own protocol.
https://atproto.com/guides/faq#why-not-use-activitypub
They chose not to after researching options. Pretty sure they decides account portability was a key feature needed and AP doesn’'t do this. As in taking your account and all your posts and data witj you to a new server. I assume there is a technical reason why this would be very difficult to add to AP/Mastodon otherwise they could have just added it themselves.
It’s nothing to do with that, they made the AT protocol because is structured in a way that ensures that bluesky (the company) will always control the network. They wouldn’t be able to keep control with ActivityPub, it’s the same reason Threads will never implement it.
All the stuff about account portability is a distraction. Think about it: where would one move an account to anyway? Another BS node? Why? Unlike Mastodon instances there is no functional difference.
You clearly haven’t read the docs
Here’s a doc for ya: https://rys.io/en/167.html
This line is self contradicting
3rd party feeds and recommendations and discovery already exists. They are also not dependent on the continued existence or openness of the bluesky servers. You can control your own experience and it’s easy to find and switch between feeds. Having more subscribers to your feed doesn’t make you more powerful in the context of network effects. If people stop looking your feed they’ll dump it.
Also, node operators have full control of what they forward to clients. They can absolutely apply moderation filters, and this is one of the expected means for such nodes to market themselves to their communities - “we have default feeds and moderation which suits your community”.
Nonsense, the network uses relay servers which acts as open CDN servers and the firehose feed is open AND 3rd party hosted feed builders already exists (and they’re open source so you can copy them), you don’t need to waste duplicate work on building datasets. This network is cooperative. It has absolutely no winner-takes-all effects, it explicitly encourages division of labor and mix-and-matching multiple 3rd party services.
Then use web-DID which already is fully decentralized
Jack is not involved with bluesky anymore, he’s in nostr land now. He doesn’t have majority on the board and isn’t influencing development.
Moderation tools like this is in the works, it’s not complete yet. Mute/block filters already exists, and label services for moderation are being worked on
A whole lot of directly false nonsense and irrelevant arguments and ignorance of what the devs are working on
Yeah the not being able to fully move your account and all its history is one of the biggest shortcomings of AP for me. I hope they shore that up eventually.
100% agree, without it, the decentralization aspect is severely weakened
This is the best reply so far. Also worth mentioning both the platform and the protocol are open source.
https://github.com/bluesky-social
AT is not truly decentralized like activitypub. It’s similar to crypto where the majority stakeholder (in this case, bluesky the for profit company) controls the network. There are not “instances” run by community leaders, just free hosting.
The only thing they control is the DID lookup for PLC type account DID values, but if you have your own domain and use web-DID they control nothing that can’t be replaced
Ah interesting. One more in the “negative” column for Bluesky then imo. What Mastodon gets right (perhaps in a sea of things that it gets wrong) is that it relies on people to build and maintain their communities, rather than hoping that technology can solve all the issues of moderation, etc… Yeah, there are improvements that we hope will get to AP. It’s obvious bsky is just not the future.
Yes, you’ve hit the nail on the head. It’s contextual moderation that makes a space worth being on. This is a good piece that sums up the differences.