In what appears to be an escalating incursion into a user’s digital privacy, a collective of film companies continue to implore the court to compel Reddit to surrender its users’ personal details. This move is part of an ongoing piracy liability case against Internet Service Providers. Reddit, however, steadfastly resists, staunchly defending its users’ rights to anonymous speech.
With the writers and actors all in strike, they won’t be putting out any movies until they decide to be less shitty and come to the table in good faith, or all the writers starve and come crawling back because they have families to feed. I’m not holding my breath on a happy ending, honestly.
Here’s the plan, gentleman. Where’s my cigar? Now listen up! We ain’t gonna be making another movie the whole rest of duh year, see? Fuck dem writers. Don’t even get me started on the talent! So here’s what we do. We get the moneys from this kid dat donloided one of our movies 12 years ago. It’s brilliant! Where’s Harvey?
The film companies have singled out a Reddit user, “xBROKEx,” citing a 12-year-old comment admitting to pirating the movie The Expendables.
Reddit counters that this attempted breach of privacy is unwarranted, given that the statute of limitations for copyright infringement is just three years.
How ridiculous. Someone admitted / bragged / bullshitted on the Internet 12 years ago. The statute of limitations expired 9 years ago. But, the film companies are still trying to get the information on a poor xBROKEx.
even knowing it will be thrown out, the companies want to go after them. they want to hurt xBROKEx as much as they can, as an example to others that you’ll never get away with it. That they’ll hound you decades later.
What a ridiculous case. You can’t prove anything based on a comment made online. Defence will just be “i just said that to sound cool, I’ve never pirated anything and wouldn’t know how” probably doesn’t even need a lawyer as there’s no evidence.
Oh fuck that. If those type of words are spoken in court you better have a lawyer or it’s going to be twisted against you with some sort of proof that you do in fact know how to pirate stuff. Straight to jail.
Yup. They will use the fact that a user said they pirated a movie as a starting point. If Reddit capitulated and handed over the user info that could be used to hunt for more evidence and possibly connect them to other pirates. It would open a juicy can of worms for these bottom feeders. Good on Reddit for standing up for their users.
Could the selection be intentional? A silly unenforceable case to open the door for a more comprehensive invasion of privacy on platforms to make discussion and hosting discussion of piracy into a riskier endeavor?
This is what I’m thinking. This is just a case of them seeing how far they can take it. Once precedent is set they can start to litigate based on a user merely mentioning that they pirated a movie.
IIRC they aren’t prosecuting these users, instead they want to make them be witnesses in a case against an ISP they want to say wasn’t doing enough to stop piracy. The Reddit posts were about whether the ISP takes action against pirates or something like that.
I don’t think ISP’s have any duty to prevent piracy, or anything else for that matter. Their business is providing internet to their customers, not policing each and every action
If you use encryption (I always change the settings from “prefer” to “require” encryption on every install), the ISPs literally can’t identify what you’re downloading.
So the IP enforcement companies send the ISP a letter saying “this IP was illegally downloading our stuff. We don’t actually have proof, but trust us and punish them.”
Big surprise, a ton of ISPs just ignore them.
Edit: to be clear, I’m only saying encryption prevents your ISP from seeing what you’re downloading. IP (intellectual property) enforcers who participate in the torrent are the ones who inform your ISP, but their letters to the ISPs have no teeth. Some ISPs care, but a lot just ignore the letters. You still definitely want to use a VPN for all public trackers.
I don’t think that’s true. I’m pretty certain they simply hop on a torrent client with an illegal torrent for their movie and record the IP addresses they see seeding and leeching. Then simply compel the responsible ISP to reveal which of their customers currently has that IP leased.
That is exactly what happens. Encryption on the protocol doesn’t do anything but hide what you’re downloading from your ISP. It doesn’t prevent someone from downloading the same torrent and matching your IP to it. That’s why people recommend that you use VPNs if you’re going to do this from your house.
Your ISP can’t see what you’re downloading if you encrypt, but the IP (intellectual property) enforcers still can if they’re participating in the torrent. Then they find out which ISP that IP (address) belongs to and sends them a letter saying “we caught your subscriber downloading XYZ illegally.”
However, at least one US district court has ruled that just catching an IP address downloading a torrent illegally isn’t proof that any particular person illegally downloaded the IP (intellectual property). As a result, some ISPs simply ignore the letters the IP enforcers send, while some of the bigger ones count “strikes” against the subscriber with that IP address.
Oh in that case I admit to pirating hundreds of movies while connected to the wifi on holiday at Disney Land. I’m happy to be a witness in a case if one of these scum bags wish to take on The Mouse.
Reddit understands it’s value is in content to sell. If reddit starts ratting out it’s free content creators, they lose value. Their actions are a profit calculation, not some noble stand to protect privacy.
Based on zero data and just my impression, it seems like only a minority of us were actually willing to leave over it. They might make more money money from addicts using the ad app or buying gold than they lose from reduced content creation.
You are the product, not the paying customer. That means you are cattle.
The farmer will build a fence to protect the cattle from predators, because it is in the interest of the farmer to preserve the cattle. But come payday, the farmer will gladly butcher the cattle for profit.
Social media users in the you-are-the-product buisness model are no different. Your user experience will be catered to you to cultivate the user base. But your experience will be actively ruined the instant it benefits the paying customer, I.e. if that means the paying customer, advertisers, will get what they want (promotion).
The difference is people generally don’t care about a change if it doesn’t inconvenience them beyond their tolerance threshold. Losing access to 3rd party apps? Bad to some, but probably the profit of the move will exceed the cost. (their hope) But get a rep for ratting out your posters to authorities and it suddenly becomes very personal for more people.
Yep, I’ve pirated so much that my whole crew all refer to me as Captain Jack Sparrow. My MO is to fire a warning shot over the bow of every movie studio and if they don’t quickly capitulate, I’ll raise the Jolly Roger and take them by force. That’s the only true pirate’s modus operandi.
Wait, is it even possible to pay for movies outside of a movie theater?? I have taught everyone I know how to use bittorrent because I assumed that was a basic computer literacy thing. My grandma regularly pirates TV shows so they have something to watch at her adult daycare. That old bitch even offers DVD copies for a buck fifty.
Okay, so I kind of lied, when I set up my radarr/sonarr/transmission/etc docked compose setup earlier this year, I did purchase PIA VPN, which is like $60 per year I believe. Didn’t want to have to think about it anymore, and I can afford it now, so whatever.
But still, over 20 years, that’s like a $1200 savings. When all that you’re realistically risking is having to switch ISPs, and that’s so unlikely that I’ve never met anyone who had to do it, I don’t think it’s as big of a deal as people make it out to be.
Having said that, don’t pirate things without a VPN and blame me when the fuzz comes for ya
Before using a VPN, I was sent numerous letters from my isp to knock it off. It really depends on both isp and where you live. If you live in the US, my understanding is that it’s the isp who can get sued for allowing you to pirate, so while they don’t want to lose your money and will give you numerous chances, they will eventually cease to do business with you.
I’m on Xfinity and the only time I’ve gotten a warning was torrenting a movie from a public tracker without a VPN. I switched back to a private tracker and no issues even without a VPN.
I’m using surfshark, I got it a 3 year subscription on a discount a while back. On reddit they had r/vpndeals if I remember right, that was a good source to find discounts. Not sure if there’s a similar community here on Lemmy
I’ve always thought it had something to do with absolving themselves if liability.
From what I understand, companies hired by copyright owners send a DMCA request to whichever ISP owns the IP addresses that show up in their honeypots.
ISP has to act on those requests in some way, so they send a sternly worded letter that basically says “we have been notified that your network was used to download copyrighted material illegally. Piracy is bad, you naughty boy/girl. If this continues, we may have to take action which could include canceling your service (don’t worry we won’t because we want your money)”.
Hypothetically, they could turn your information over to the digital rights company, who then could hypothetically file charges against you, but there is established judicial precedent in the US that says that showing that activity came from a specific IP address isn’t enough to convict an individual of a crime without more evidence. Could have been anyone in the household, or it could have been someone who hacked into the network and used it for piracy.
If we want to get even more hypothetical, they could try to convince a judge to issue a search warrant, seize your device, and look for evidence there, which could be used to convict you. But that is an insane amount of effort to go after one of the hundreds of thousands of people who downloaded an episode of game of thrones an Ubuntu ISO.
They do pull out all of those stops going after the original uploaded, though, but if that’s you you’re using way more than a VPN.
You don’t need to feel guilty, copying onto your own blank media is why we all have to pay a levy on all blank media, even when they’re not being used for copying videos. That backup of your own stuff (family photos etc) you want to do? Pay the RIAA-tax.
Back in the early days you wanna download a movie or some warez it would be like 358 parts and you would always miss some and have to ask for reposts. Hey anyone have parts 28, 34, 78, and 212-229 of “Dizzy Princess And the Shaven Dwarves?” Then you wait a day or two, watching replies. It was really an accomplishment when you get that final piece and decode the file(s) successfully.
Damn, imagine extrading a guy from a developing country to a prison in the U.S, unless it’s a maximum security I think it should be better than my current life.
You are not logged in. However you can subscribe from another Fediverse account, for example Lemmy or Mastodon. To do this, paste the following into the search field of your instance: !piracy@lemmy.dbzer0.com
⚓ Dedicated to the discussion of digital piracy, including ethical problems and legal advancements.
I confess. I was the 2nd gunman on the grassy knoll.
☝️this guy right here, personal FBI agent! He basically admitted to pirating the JFK movie with Kevin Costner!! 💀
I logged your IP: 127.0.0.1 - police are on their way
(spider man pointing at themselves)
Bravo!
No, no, it’s 198.162.0.1!
The Cystic Fibrosis Foundation is a hotbed of illegal activity.
These comments are why I love this community.
Movie studios: “This is definitely the most important thing we have to deal with right now”
Not the shitty movies we’re pumping out as if there were no tomorrow.
With the writers and actors all in strike, they won’t be putting out any movies until they decide to be less shitty and come to the table in good faith, or all the writers starve and come crawling back because they have families to feed. I’m not holding my breath on a happy ending, honestly.
Sir, you have a message from someone called, “A.I.”
With all these constant reboots and live action versions of classics, they aren’t really doing anything else
You could say that it was an Avengers level threat
Here’s the plan, gentleman. Where’s my cigar? Now listen up! We ain’t gonna be making another movie the whole rest of duh year, see? Fuck dem writers. Don’t even get me started on the talent! So here’s what we do. We get the moneys from this kid dat donloided one of our movies 12 years ago. It’s brilliant! Where’s Harvey?
“donloided” lmao
Harvey: *shaking because he knew that was the one on reddit /r/piracy 12 years ago, drunk posting for shits and giggles
Seriously. The kid could just say I lied. I wanted to look cool.
I love is third world country. Free to pirate and government don’t care.
How ridiculous. Someone admitted / bragged / bullshitted on the Internet 12 years ago. The statute of limitations expired 9 years ago. But, the film companies are still trying to get the information on a poor xBROKEx.
even knowing it will be thrown out, the companies want to go after them. they want to hurt xBROKEx as much as they can, as an example to others that you’ll never get away with it. That they’ll hound you decades later.
Yeah, that’s the thing. Even though xBROKEx would probably win in court, it would bankrupt them in lawyer fees.
What a ridiculous case. You can’t prove anything based on a comment made online. Defence will just be “i just said that to sound cool, I’ve never pirated anything and wouldn’t know how” probably doesn’t even need a lawyer as there’s no evidence.
Oh fuck that. If those type of words are spoken in court you better have a lawyer or it’s going to be twisted against you with some sort of proof that you do in fact know how to pirate stuff. Straight to jail.
But what for? His guilt expired years ago.
Yup. They will use the fact that a user said they pirated a movie as a starting point. If Reddit capitulated and handed over the user info that could be used to hunt for more evidence and possibly connect them to other pirates. It would open a juicy can of worms for these bottom feeders. Good on Reddit for standing up for their users.
“Good on reddit for standing up for their users” I mean, you can’t abuse them for cash if they’re in jail.
Could the selection be intentional? A silly unenforceable case to open the door for a more comprehensive invasion of privacy on platforms to make discussion and hosting discussion of piracy into a riskier endeavor?
Exactly what the trick is. Once the precedent is set, they can exploit the hell out of it.
This is what I’m thinking. This is just a case of them seeing how far they can take it. Once precedent is set they can start to litigate based on a user merely mentioning that they pirated a movie.
Could be that they’re seeking exhaustion so that can push more of their privacy breaking bullshit in international trade agreements.
They think that bullying one user is going to setup an example of what happens when you fuck with them.
Fuck 'em.
IIRC they aren’t prosecuting these users, instead they want to make them be witnesses in a case against an ISP they want to say wasn’t doing enough to stop piracy. The Reddit posts were about whether the ISP takes action against pirates or something like that.
I don’t think ISP’s have any duty to prevent piracy, or anything else for that matter. Their business is providing internet to their customers, not policing each and every action
If you use encryption (I always change the settings from “prefer” to “require” encryption on every install), the ISPs literally can’t identify what you’re downloading.
So the IP enforcement companies send the ISP a letter saying “this IP was illegally downloading our stuff. We don’t actually have proof, but trust us and punish them.”
Big surprise, a ton of ISPs just ignore them.
Edit: to be clear, I’m only saying encryption prevents your ISP from seeing what you’re downloading. IP (intellectual property) enforcers who participate in the torrent are the ones who inform your ISP, but their letters to the ISPs have no teeth. Some ISPs care, but a lot just ignore the letters. You still definitely want to use a VPN for all public trackers.
I don’t think that’s true. I’m pretty certain they simply hop on a torrent client with an illegal torrent for their movie and record the IP addresses they see seeding and leeching. Then simply compel the responsible ISP to reveal which of their customers currently has that IP leased.
That is exactly what happens. Encryption on the protocol doesn’t do anything but hide what you’re downloading from your ISP. It doesn’t prevent someone from downloading the same torrent and matching your IP to it. That’s why people recommend that you use VPNs if you’re going to do this from your house.
That’s what I said though.
Your ISP can’t see what you’re downloading if you encrypt, but the IP (intellectual property) enforcers still can if they’re participating in the torrent. Then they find out which ISP that IP (address) belongs to and sends them a letter saying “we caught your subscriber downloading XYZ illegally.”
However, at least one US district court has ruled that just catching an IP address downloading a torrent illegally isn’t proof that any particular person illegally downloaded the IP (intellectual property). As a result, some ISPs simply ignore the letters the IP enforcers send, while some of the bigger ones count “strikes” against the subscriber with that IP address.
Oh in that case I admit to pirating hundreds of movies while connected to the wifi on holiday at Disney Land. I’m happy to be a witness in a case if one of these scum bags wish to take on The Mouse.
Disney owns so many media companies, for any given movie pirate it’s likely it was Disney content.
The only party that wins is the law firm charging as many billable hours as possible.
The more i read stuff like this the more i realise rights arent really a real thing.
Reddit understands it’s value is in content to sell. If reddit starts ratting out it’s free content creators, they lose value. Their actions are a profit calculation, not some noble stand to protect privacy.
They said the quiet part out loud during the API fiasco. They are planning on selling the data to AI companies, it’s why old.reddit has to die.
Calling it all now (although in fairness it’s basically already public information, even if everyone doesn’t seem to believe it).
It’s one and the same.
You’d think they’d have considered that these past few months in relation to, …other user concerns.
Based on zero data and just my impression, it seems like only a minority of us were actually willing to leave over it. They might make more money money from addicts using the ad app or buying gold than they lose from reduced content creation.
You are the product, not the paying customer. That means you are cattle.
The farmer will build a fence to protect the cattle from predators, because it is in the interest of the farmer to preserve the cattle. But come payday, the farmer will gladly butcher the cattle for profit.
Social media users in the you-are-the-product buisness model are no different. Your user experience will be catered to you to cultivate the user base. But your experience will be actively ruined the instant it benefits the paying customer, I.e. if that means the paying customer, advertisers, will get what they want (promotion).
The difference is people generally don’t care about a change if it doesn’t inconvenience them beyond their tolerance threshold. Losing access to 3rd party apps? Bad to some, but probably the profit of the move will exceed the cost. (their hope) But get a rep for ratting out your posters to authorities and it suddenly becomes very personal for more people.
ive pirated 99.99% of the movies ive seen come find me xD
Book em Lou!
Take 'im away, toys.
Yep, I’ve pirated so much that my whole crew all refer to me as Captain Jack Sparrow. My MO is to fire a warning shot over the bow of every movie studio and if they don’t quickly capitulate, I’ll raise the Jolly Roger and take them by force. That’s the only true pirate’s modus operandi.
Oh yeah? Well one time I downloaded a car.
He would, in fact, download a car.
I’m sure there’s one swimming somewhere in the dark
seanet.Damn, all I ever managed was to download some extra RAM.
Oh yeah? You got nothing on the studios… They are planning on downloading actors and actresses
People have been doing that for years :)
Wait, is it even possible to pay for movies outside of a movie theater?? I have taught everyone I know how to use bittorrent because I assumed that was a basic computer literacy thing. My grandma regularly pirates TV shows so they have something to watch at her adult daycare. That old bitch even offers DVD copies for a buck fifty.
You buy the DVDs.
Nothing disgusts me more than seeing a dvd for $40.
deleted by creator
Those things are just plastic disks, they don’t even have data on them after this much abuse.
That has not been my experience. Honestly they are much better than the Netflix DVDs I used to get. We have a pretty damn great library here though.
deleted by creator
Rent a dvd Rip it Return the dvd
Hope you also taught them to use a VPN.
Okay, I see this so much, but I have been
pirating virtually all of my mediadownloading Linux ISOs (in the US) without a VPN for… 20 years?I’ve gotten about a dozen letters from my ISP and I just chuck ‘‘em in a bin.
Depending on the ISP your service can be terminated for pirating. VPNs are cheap enough where you might as well just use one
Okay, so I kind of lied, when I set up my radarr/sonarr/transmission/etc docked compose setup earlier this year, I did purchase PIA VPN, which is like $60 per year I believe. Didn’t want to have to think about it anymore, and I can afford it now, so whatever.
But still, over 20 years, that’s like a $1200 savings. When all that you’re realistically risking is having to switch ISPs, and that’s so unlikely that I’ve never met anyone who had to do it, I don’t think it’s as big of a deal as people make it out to be.
Having said that, don’t pirate things without a VPN and blame me when the fuzz comes for ya
@jemorgan @manapropos
Before using a VPN, I was sent numerous letters from my isp to knock it off. It really depends on both isp and where you live. If you live in the US, my understanding is that it’s the isp who can get sued for allowing you to pirate, so while they don’t want to lose your money and will give you numerous chances, they will eventually cease to do business with you.
I’m on Xfinity and the only time I’ve gotten a warning was torrenting a movie from a public tracker without a VPN. I switched back to a private tracker and no issues even without a VPN.
Your mileage may vary.
What’s a cheap good VPN for someone in the US?
I’m using surfshark, I got it a 3 year subscription on a discount a while back. On reddit they had r/vpndeals if I remember right, that was a good source to find discounts. Not sure if there’s a similar community here on Lemmy
Mullvad’s fast and $5, but it’s hosted in Sweden. Can’t have everything I guess
Haha, I used to do this (throw away the letters). Then one day my ISP shut off my internet for 24 hours (Verizon FIOS), so I got a VPN.
Yeah, if they’re going to twist my arm, that’s one thing haha. Surprised that your ISP actually took action.
I still can’t figure out why ISPs are even doing this. They have no financial reason to stop piracy from happening.
I’ve always thought it had something to do with absolving themselves if liability.
From what I understand, companies hired by copyright owners send a DMCA request to whichever ISP owns the IP addresses that show up in their honeypots.
ISP has to act on those requests in some way, so they send a sternly worded letter that basically says “we have been notified that your network was used to download copyrighted material illegally. Piracy is bad, you naughty boy/girl. If this continues, we may have to take action which could include canceling your service (don’t worry we won’t because we want your money)”.
Hypothetically, they could turn your information over to the digital rights company, who then could hypothetically file charges against you, but there is established judicial precedent in the US that says that showing that activity came from a specific IP address isn’t enough to convict an individual of a crime without more evidence. Could have been anyone in the household, or it could have been someone who hacked into the network and used it for piracy.
If we want to get even more hypothetical, they could try to convince a judge to issue a search warrant, seize your device, and look for evidence there, which could be used to convict you. But that is an insane amount of effort to go after one of the hundreds of thousands of people who downloaded
an episode of game of thronesan Ubuntu ISO.They do pull out all of those stops going after the original uploaded, though, but if that’s you you’re using way more than a VPN.
@jemorgan @mechoman444
I have had my service turned off for 24 hours once and that’s why I finally started using a VPN, as that was just annoying.
Yes. They turn my internet off until I call them and someone over the phone scolds me for wanted to watch The Flash.
Yo ho ho and a bottle of rum, 17 lawyers up that pirate’s poor bum!
This is fucking pathetic.
I, too, downloaded movies 12 years ago. Fuckin losers. I also used Napster, come at me.
I’ve been pirating my whole life!
How can I pirate your life as well?
I, too, choose this user’s life.
You’ll get the chair for Napster.
Zapster amirite
I did the most egregious thing back in the day and rented DVDs from the video store, ripped them, then returned them.
How do you live with yourself?
I am wracked with guilt every day.
Just don’t look at the server over there pulling half a TB of new 4k rips from usenet at a gig a second…
You don’t need to feel guilty, copying onto your own blank media is why we all have to pay a levy on all blank media, even when they’re not being used for copying videos. That backup of your own stuff (family photos etc) you want to do? Pay the RIAA-tax.
I don’t even really understand how usenet works tbh let alone finding a place for 4k rips.
Every time it amazes me that noone give a fuck about usenet since before the internet existed 😂
Back in the early days you wanna download a movie or some warez it would be like 358 parts and you would always miss some and have to ask for reposts. Hey anyone have parts 28, 34, 78, and 212-229 of “Dizzy Princess And the Shaven Dwarves?” Then you wait a day or two, watching replies. It was really an accomplishment when you get that final piece and decode the file(s) successfully.
Shhhhhhh bro facebooks watching come on bro don’t be like that
FBI!!! OPEN UP!!!
I also have committed the dangerous felony of pirating movies
Go ahead call the cops, I’m a gangsta yo
How are they gonna prove he really did and he’s not just bluffing?
Simple: Lie, cheat, steal, and the mafia.
I admit pirating all what I need during the last 20 years… So what, they may want to jail me for that !?
B b b but… Think of the poor poor millionaires and billionaires :(
Oh I am thinking of them. Of robbing them, eating them.
Mmmmmmmmm, EAT. THE. RICH.
Yes…very naughty. Prison for you.
1 million years dungeon
Damn, imagine extrading a guy from a developing country to a prison in the U.S, unless it’s a maximum security I think it should be better than my current life.
Not sure. US is a 3rd world country in everything except being rich.