The Ontario government tabled an omnibus bill Monday that includes a ban on provincially funded supervised consumption sites and a de facto ban on sites approved by the feds.
As part of its plan to ban supervised consumption sites and close 10 of those operating in Ontario, the province has announced the creation of 19 intensive addiction recovery facilities, named HART Hubs.
A $378-million budget has been allocated to create the new spaces, which will combine addiction recovery with highly supportive housing units. The program should lead to 375 “highly supportive” housing units as part of the hub model.
BC also. People support it because they want to fix the problem, and by fix the problem I mean “make it not visible to me anymore because I can’t go downtown without having to walk near the untouchables and it’s a nuisance”.
(I don’t personally think forced treatment is the solution, but am just reiterating sentiments I have heard)
Didn’t finland do a similar thing and basically ended homelessness? They housed the homeless and provided treatment. Most were able to leave the program because turns out having housing is a huge factor in getting off the streets. I’m not sure the details but they stressed the housing portion was very important, if you want to clean up and get a job, having a safe place to eat, sleep, and shower is essential for that.
You’re talking about housing first policy, and it has nothing to do with addiction. Well except the policy explicitly doesn’t care about addiction.
I know people addicted to opiates in Finland who didn’t get into care because they couldn’t “prove” they had a problem since the healthcare wanted a supervised piss test and he had shy pee so bad he couldn’t. So he didn’t get into rehab.
You’re idolising the Finnish systems a bit. A lot of them are great… on paper.
I’m not saying they don’t work in real life, I’m saying the implementation is shit but the policy is still so good that despite the fucktard bureaucrats, it’s still achieving a lot compared to some other countries. (Cough USA COUGH COUGH)
I’ve genuinely been basically blocked from life because here in Finland even recreational weed smokers are treated as complete junkies by the healthcare. Complete and utter junkies, and I’m not exaggerating. No matter how much I quote the laws and produce doctor’s notes and therapist notes. It’s crazy how archaic the attitudes towards even mild illegal drugs are. And the amount of hypocrisy in that, because most Finns consume quite a lot of alcohol to the point of often disabling themselves for a day or two every week.
But yeah we live so far North allowing homeless people to live on the street would literally kill them. So that’s probably why we’ve got this covered.
It may not for some, but some former addicts say without that they would never have broken free of the downward spiral. The drugs make you only find joy in drugs, it doesn’t seem to have a solution
After getting clean, many addicts say giving them free drugs was the worst thing you could do for them, it just helped prolong their problems and delay their treatment. This stuff is hard because those drugs and the lifestyle that can come with it will often change people beyond what they want for themselves.
That’s because they’re only one part of a whole solution. The issue was never the drugs themselves. The reasons people get addicted to drugs are largely systemic in nature. Systemic solutions for systemic problems.
I should lay out that I believe in housing as a basic human right and think that everyone is entitled to a safe and warm place to sleep. But even when arguing from a practical standpoint it’s next to impossible to find a job that will hire a person with no address and possibly no government ID (need an address to get documents!). For people to even have the chance to turn their lives around they NEED a personal living space to store their belongings. Doesn’t even need to be any more complex than a hotel room.
I understand the frustrations with safe consumption sites, but they are realistically solvable, and the only reason we haven’t solved them is because all these politicians are too myopic to realize the long-term benefits of actually helping our communities. They do provide a real service with the guarantee of medical staff on hand and 100% pure doses that won’t instantly kill you. The problem is that without all the other things in place they look very silly.
But even when arguing from a practical standpoint it’s next to impossible to find a job that will hire a person with no address and possibly no government ID (need an address to get documents!)
There are ways around that part, if we cared enough to implement them. There’s a street in—I think it was Italy?—that actually has no physical existence. Addresses on that street are used to give people with no permanent housing something to write on forms that ask for an address, so they can collect mail, including legal documents and government support checks, or apply for jobs. That doesn’t solve the problem of living space directly, of course, but it might be enough to provide a starting point for some people. Or it would if we had enough reasonably-priced housing.
Calgary has another system - the homeless shelter downtown has some short-term residences where you can have an address and phone number for job hunting. (And a warm place to sleep.)
It’s kind of amazing how people will continue to vote for people who create policy that is proven to be ineffective at best and directly harmful at worst.
Yesterday my buddy who barely works and doesn’t do overtime said: “poivrière said he would reduces taxes on overtime, I want that - why wouldn’t I vote for him?” I don’t blame my buddy, and we avoid discussing politics, but these people are short-sighted and cannot be saved.
He lives out in the sticks, I can’t undo 15 years of skipping out on education (he’s 38).
I do argue it in moderation, but I prefer to tackle critical thinking in general, and hope he learns to draw his own conclusions. He recently got over that the earth is not flat and that those conspiracies don’t hold water. He’s even starting to identify content on tiktok that is framed in a certain way.
Maybe we’ll get there one day!
Edit: Tbf he’s a mechanic, and a good one at that, so flat earth was an easy topic. He managed to understand we can’t make oldschool carburators with flat earth physics, and he knows how those work. It’s like if I tried to convince him displacement in an engine isn’t real, just invented by big oil.
Imo that only feels good when it’s someone who actively causes harm with their stupidy and they finally get justice. In this case I consider it to be more sad than anything else; it’s a function of his upbringing, not who he is.
I would highly recommend watching the documentary Behind the Curve.
It follows a group of flat earthers. It’s a really good watch, a bit depressing. Gives you a look at how these people, who aren’t always the stupid people we think they are, got to where they are. How their lives and social connections start falling apart because of their belief in a flat earth. And at the end, how some of them realised they were wrong.
Not really how I recall it, but I watched it during the height of lockdown…so my memory of that time is absolutely going to be full of more holes than a cheese grater…
If he really hates paying taxes he really should find a country that has low/zero taxes. I will never get over the argument about how people hate taxes and try to argue that we need to get rid of them.
Who here actually wants one in their neighborhood? They put one up in mine and we’ve had constant break ins since. Maybe write to your city councilor and nominate your neighborhood for one
Okay as someone who isn’t from an English-speaking country, would you mind elaborating on what the usage is in this case so I understand the title better?
Thanks
I mean I get regional differences and I’d say my knowledge of them is fairly high for someone who wasn’t speaking English, but it’s impossible to actually have perfect recall all the time. I still check whether licence was the noun or verb in the UK (license being the verb). And always hesitate with defence vs defense. Flat vs apartment boot vs trunk and all those are simple though, but I can’t know all them. :F
There are a number of words in English that have different meanings depending on where you’re from, such as flat or boot, but the political definition of table is its own antonym depending on the region. In Canada and the UK to table a bill or subject means to pay attention or deal with it, while in America it means to set it aside. There is an apocryphal story about the leaders of Canada and America meeting with him during WWII and they wish to discuss some subject. The Canadian says to table the discussion, the American gets upset and says it’s an important topic and needs to be discussed, and Churchill says we are nations divided by a common language.
I honestly thought it would be more prevalent on the internet, but I couldn’t find a reference to it.
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That doesn’t sound bad, actually.
Except that the minister was on CBC yesterday, and made it clear that they’re following Alberta’s lead of forced treatment.
You don’t go to these to get clean, you get sent there by the police.
Oh so prison
BC also. People support it because they want to fix the problem, and by fix the problem I mean “make it not visible to me anymore because I can’t go downtown without having to walk near the untouchables and it’s a nuisance”.
(I don’t personally think forced treatment is the solution, but am just reiterating sentiments I have heard)
I’d bet that the contract to build these happens to be someone owed a favor.
That is promising, though it would be a good next step to the consumption sites rather than a replacement for them.
The consumption sites would be good first points of contact so users could be provided the treatment centre information.
I believe in previous threads on the subject, it was identified that forced rehab doesn’t work. I’m too lazy to go find the threads FYI
Didn’t finland do a similar thing and basically ended homelessness? They housed the homeless and provided treatment. Most were able to leave the program because turns out having housing is a huge factor in getting off the streets. I’m not sure the details but they stressed the housing portion was very important, if you want to clean up and get a job, having a safe place to eat, sleep, and shower is essential for that.
No forced rehab, lol.
You’re talking about housing first policy, and it has nothing to do with addiction. Well except the policy explicitly doesn’t care about addiction.
I know people addicted to opiates in Finland who didn’t get into care because they couldn’t “prove” they had a problem since the healthcare wanted a supervised piss test and he had shy pee so bad he couldn’t. So he didn’t get into rehab.
You’re idolising the Finnish systems a bit. A lot of them are great… on paper.
I’m not saying they don’t work in real life, I’m saying the implementation is shit but the policy is still so good that despite the fucktard bureaucrats, it’s still achieving a lot compared to some other countries. (Cough USA COUGH COUGH)
I’ve genuinely been basically blocked from life because here in Finland even recreational weed smokers are treated as complete junkies by the healthcare. Complete and utter junkies, and I’m not exaggerating. No matter how much I quote the laws and produce doctor’s notes and therapist notes. It’s crazy how archaic the attitudes towards even mild illegal drugs are. And the amount of hypocrisy in that, because most Finns consume quite a lot of alcohol to the point of often disabling themselves for a day or two every week.
But yeah we live so far North allowing homeless people to live on the street would literally kill them. So that’s probably why we’ve got this covered.
There is way more than 400 homeless people in Ontario.
Yes, the number of units is inadequate, but im taking about the overall strategy.
Canada can’t house their non-drug users… I am a bit confused how they will be able to house drug users lol
It may not for some, but some former addicts say without that they would never have broken free of the downward spiral. The drugs make you only find joy in drugs, it doesn’t seem to have a solution
After getting clean, many addicts say giving them free drugs was the worst thing you could do for them, it just helped prolong their problems and delay their treatment. This stuff is hard because those drugs and the lifestyle that can come with it will often change people beyond what they want for themselves.
Who is giving people free drugs?
I checked my kid’s Halloween candy and found 3 whole marijuanas!
Million dollar starter home?
Some one in BC interviewed about safe injection sites said it is not a help, it just lengthens the slow path to suicide. Oof.
That’s because they’re only one part of a whole solution. The issue was never the drugs themselves. The reasons people get addicted to drugs are largely systemic in nature. Systemic solutions for systemic problems.
I should lay out that I believe in housing as a basic human right and think that everyone is entitled to a safe and warm place to sleep. But even when arguing from a practical standpoint it’s next to impossible to find a job that will hire a person with no address and possibly no government ID (need an address to get documents!). For people to even have the chance to turn their lives around they NEED a personal living space to store their belongings. Doesn’t even need to be any more complex than a hotel room.
I understand the frustrations with safe consumption sites, but they are realistically solvable, and the only reason we haven’t solved them is because all these politicians are too myopic to realize the long-term benefits of actually helping our communities. They do provide a real service with the guarantee of medical staff on hand and 100% pure doses that won’t instantly kill you. The problem is that without all the other things in place they look very silly.
There are ways around that part, if we cared enough to implement them. There’s a street in—I think it was Italy?—that actually has no physical existence. Addresses on that street are used to give people with no permanent housing something to write on forms that ask for an address, so they can collect mail, including legal documents and government support checks, or apply for jobs. That doesn’t solve the problem of living space directly, of course, but it might be enough to provide a starting point for some people. Or it would if we had enough reasonably-priced housing.
Calgary has another system - the homeless shelter downtown has some short-term residences where you can have an address and phone number for job hunting. (And a warm place to sleep.)
What does HART stand for? Homeless and Really Troubled?
Homelessness (and) Addiction Recovery Treatment Hub.
Fuck you ford.
All bars banned?
What a weird comparison
It’s kind of amazing how people will continue to vote for people who create policy that is proven to be ineffective at best and directly harmful at worst.
Yesterday my buddy who barely works and doesn’t do overtime said: “poivrière said he would reduces taxes on overtime, I want that - why wouldn’t I vote for him?” I don’t blame my buddy, and we avoid discussing politics, but these people are short-sighted and cannot be saved.
Talk politics with your buddy. Sounds like they need it.
He lives out in the sticks, I can’t undo 15 years of skipping out on education (he’s 38).
I do argue it in moderation, but I prefer to tackle critical thinking in general, and hope he learns to draw his own conclusions. He recently got over that the earth is not flat and that those conspiracies don’t hold water. He’s even starting to identify content on tiktok that is framed in a certain way.
Maybe we’ll get there one day!
Edit: Tbf he’s a mechanic, and a good one at that, so flat earth was an easy topic. He managed to understand we can’t make oldschool carburators with flat earth physics, and he knows how those work. It’s like if I tried to convince him displacement in an engine isn’t real, just invented by big oil.
God I would love to see a flat earther realize and admit they’ve been wrong this whole time.
Imo that only feels good when it’s someone who actively causes harm with their stupidy and they finally get justice. In this case I consider it to be more sad than anything else; it’s a function of his upbringing, not who he is.
Well I don’t want them to feel bad, I just want to see it so I know that it actually happens and my faith in humanity can be slightly restored.
Then I want to see his parents suffer. Show me their deepest regrets and self-flagellation.
jfk, my comrade in crisis, you have the patience of a saint.
I would highly recommend watching the documentary Behind the Curve.
It follows a group of flat earthers. It’s a really good watch, a bit depressing. Gives you a look at how these people, who aren’t always the stupid people we think they are, got to where they are. How their lives and social connections start falling apart because of their belief in a flat earth. And at the end, how some of them realised they were wrong.
If I recall it was mostly simping over a crazy lady with mental illnesses and no mental chillnesses
Not really how I recall it, but I watched it during the height of lockdown…so my memory of that time is absolutely going to be full of more holes than a cheese grater…
If he really hates paying taxes he really should find a country that has low/zero taxes. I will never get over the argument about how people hate taxes and try to argue that we need to get rid of them.
Commie blocks would help this country’s housing crisis immensely. I double dog dare him.
They would devalue owners “asset”
No
Who here actually wants one in their neighborhood? They put one up in mine and we’ve had constant break ins since. Maybe write to your city councilor and nominate your neighborhood for one
Saying there will be no more of attempts to take away the rooms?
Tables the laws.
So no more attempts at banning these?
This is a Canadian topic. With regards to this exact term, in the words of Churchill, “We are divided by a common language.”
Okay as someone who isn’t from an English-speaking country, would you mind elaborating on what the usage is in this case so I understand the title better?
Thanks
I mean I get regional differences and I’d say my knowledge of them is fairly high for someone who wasn’t speaking English, but it’s impossible to actually have perfect recall all the time. I still check whether licence was the noun or verb in the UK (license being the verb). And always hesitate with defence vs defense. Flat vs apartment boot vs trunk and all those are simple though, but I can’t know all them. :F
There are a number of words in English that have different meanings depending on where you’re from, such as flat or boot, but the political definition of table is its own antonym depending on the region. In Canada and the UK to table a bill or subject means to pay attention or deal with it, while in America it means to set it aside. There is an apocryphal story about the leaders of Canada and America meeting with him during WWII and they wish to discuss some subject. The Canadian says to table the discussion, the American gets upset and says it’s an important topic and needs to be discussed, and Churchill says we are nations divided by a common language.
I honestly thought it would be more prevalent on the internet, but I couldn’t find a reference to it.
RIP malls