So, this community isn’t hosted on lemmy.world because they don’t what that on their servers. Fine. But now they’re censoring what I can see?! Are we okay with this?
It’s their instance, their rules. You can join another instance that doesn’t defederate from them or make your own. That’s the beauty of the fediverse design. It doesn’t matter if we’re okay with it, we have options to get around it unlike with centralized platforms.
This is kind of my point. lemmy.world doesn’t like what this community is doing so it’s not hosted on their server. I get and respect that.
What I don’t understand is the rationality behind blocking this specific community. It’s someone somewhere deciding what I can or can’t see on a remote host they have no control over.
It’s someone somewhere deciding what I can or can’t see on a remote host they have no control over.
I mean, they do have control over it in a sense. They can defederate from it so it’s no longer on their instance, which they did. You can still access the community from other instances though, like you’re doing now, so it’s not really a big deal. This is how federation is meant to function. People running their instances by their own rules.
I agree though, their rationale for defederation from this community does not add up for me either. But at the end of the day they can be as irrational as they want with their instance.
Yeah, we’re basically on the same page here. Their instance, their rules.
I’m hopeful that in the future, accounts will be “in the fediverse”, and end users can choose what they want to see or not see. Then it’s on the instance that’s hosting the community to determine what’s okay to host or not.
PKI? GPG? Private key shows you own the account. All instances keep a copy of your public key. You go direct to the instance to get the content. When you want to post you sign your message and send it along.
I’m sure smarter people then me have considered this and more so I’m not sure what’s possible.
Eh, I get both sides of the argument. They’re not deciding what you can or can’t see, they’re deciding what you can or can’t see while using their resources. Personally, that type of censorship would lead me to be looking for another instance, but I also get where they’re coming from. Kinda.
I get where they’re coming from too. I guess they just want to avoid any potential issues. That being said, the recent piracy issue reddit faced where companies tried to get reddit to reveal some users’ IPs for saying they torrented a movie is a good example that talking about piracy is not inherently illegal, as long as they weren’t actually sharing the files on the site.
A possible solution is continue federation but not allow caching and have users browse content from the community directly, so there’s no liability of having the content on .world servers. That’s resource intensive and might need major lemmy code changes though.
Also, as others mentioned, it seems this was started by a troll who was being petty and claimed the community is rule-breaking, and the admins were easily spooked.
Dude I understand where you coming from but no admins wants to deal with legal shit when they pay for infrastructure and some donation. I understand completely why they’re defederating so guys like you and me should stfu and use their free stuff that we got without being tracked by big tech and getting our data harvested.
I get “in the real world” is different but lemmy.world shouldn’t be held responsible for what another instance or their users are doing.
Where is the line drawn? I buy a harddrive to store movies, use my ISP to download it, power company to run the PC. Should we sue them also? Should they try and censor what I do? WD sees a movie on my disk, should they delete it?
The way lemmy is programmed is kinda ghettoz youre not getting it straight from another instance - first the request gets saved on lemmy.world, then send to you from its cache.
The saving of this cache puts them at rist of hosting copyrighted material (even if copyright is bullshit)
I see what you’re saying, and I wish that was the case. To play devil’s advocate here though, at least your ISP and WD have a legal team (at least I’d assume) to deal with frivolous lawsuits - most Lemmy admins however do not.
WD also can’t feasibly remove the content from your drive (yet?), that would be easy to prove to any judge. That is not the case for instance admins where it’d be easy for anyone to testify that there is indeed a “Purge/Block Community” button available for instance admins.
Yeah, and my ISP has been legally told to block all Access to IPTV and do so. Why this happens I don’t understand (or agree with). Going after the source is the only one true way to stop access.
Cloudflare is a popular service for public torrent sites because they cache the content, protect from DDOS, and hide the server address. They’re not on the hook for what their customers do.
Agreed! If I had to take a guess, its a Risk vs Reward game so-to-speak. Your ISP doesn’t really have anything to lose by complying, but Cloudflare’s whole business revolves around reputation (something most ISPs clearly don’t care about unfortunately) along with being a massive CDN. To them, the risk of having their reputation sullied by someone going “I don’t like this” and taking down a potentially paying customer’s site makes it worthwhile fighting the legal battles that could come out of not complying with a takedown request.
Just guessing of course, but it would somewhat make sense.
That’s funny because lemmy.world has been blocking every community for hours on end multiple times a week on a seemingly regular basis. Their shits broke.
They aren’t doing that intentionally. They’re being DDOSd into the ground by someone(s) using SQL commands specifically crafted to hamstring their database. You can read about it here if their instance is up.
Was to lazy to change instances even though .world was always down. Actively censoring made me finally pull the plug. Thanks for helping me out I guess
The issue with lemmy.one is that it appears the admin has lost interest in doing anything at all with it. The person who started it hasn’t been online for months, and when the server has issues no one resolves them or even notices.
I’m surprised it ever even came back up after it got broken for so long.
Moved to lemmy.blahaj.zone because of this. And also I kinda got fed up with the outages even though it’s not their fault. Glad to see the federation thing is working as intended.
Wasn’t it the blahaj admin who defederated from some popular instance because it had an “adorable porn” community, claiming that contained child abuse content. Nevermind that a subreddit with the same name has existed for like a decade. And when proven wrong they doubled down and never admitted falsely accusing people of serious crimes.
The reason why I have a lemmy account is to be a part of the piracy community. My account is also registered on this instance. So as long as I am able to access this community I am good. Plus making a second account on lemmy.world for the communities on therewill take literally seconds . Absolutely no need to panic.
I think they blocked that one too unfortunately. I subscribed to it from here though.
I guess multiple accounts is just going to become a necessary part of being in the Fediverse, even if lemmy devs add account Migration to the software.
I did it on mastodon and the experience was pretty bad, like you had to manually follow each individual person. Is it any better on lemmy? Could i just add this whole instance via federation to my personal instance?
Currently on Lemmy there is no account migration feature currently you need to make a new account and subscribe to the communities again (though there are tools that allow you to automatically transfer the subscriptions). The content on your old account is still controled by the old account, no way to transfer ownership of it yet.
I still think that account migration would be very important in that circumstance because unless you ran your own server from the start you would still need to migrate the account and control of its content over to the account on your server.
Also to retain control of your posts and comments and not lose your history. Which is important since if they’re on the old account the old server can control and make edits to them, but with ownership transfer now they just have a copy of it and it’s harder for them to misuse it (the original has its edits federated, a copy doesn’t).
Yeaaaah, that’s sketchy. I can understand them blocking the communities out of fear of legal risk. They didn’t sign up for that kinda risk and we all know that piracy oriented sites get targeted by legal action (isn’t there currently an ongoing attempt to get Reddit to turn over user info about people who accessed piracy communities there?). But why the heck would they hide that they blocked the communities?
It’s the same as with Hexbear. I can understand why they defederated from that instance, since I’ve seen how they comment. They’re extremely aggressive. Even when they’re right, they’re assholes about it. And they’re often straight up supporting Russia, which is batshit crazy (they have no nuance, acting as if there can’t both be Nazis in Ukraine and Russia can also be an evil aggressor). But Lemmy.World was happy to silently defederate until they got called out. Even despite the fact that for Exploding Heads, they at least had a big post about it (even though Exploding Heads is far worse).
You are not logged in. However you can subscribe from another Fediverse account, for example Lemmy or Mastodon. To do this, paste the following into the search field of your instance: !piracy@lemmy.dbzer0.com
⚓ Dedicated to the discussion of digital piracy, including ethical problems and legal advancements.
🤔 Hold your horses, mateys!
So, this community isn’t hosted on lemmy.world because they don’t what that on their servers. Fine. But now they’re censoring what I can see?! Are we okay with this?
As a user of lemmy.ca, this won’t affect you directly.
I understand that but it affects the community and lemmy fediverse
It’s their instance, their rules. You can join another instance that doesn’t defederate from them or make your own. That’s the beauty of the fediverse design. It doesn’t matter if we’re okay with it, we have options to get around it unlike with centralized platforms.
This is kind of my point. lemmy.world doesn’t like what this community is doing so it’s not hosted on their server. I get and respect that.
What I don’t understand is the rationality behind blocking this specific community. It’s someone somewhere deciding what I can or can’t see on a remote host they have no control over.
I mean, they do have control over it in a sense. They can defederate from it so it’s no longer on their instance, which they did. You can still access the community from other instances though, like you’re doing now, so it’s not really a big deal. This is how federation is meant to function. People running their instances by their own rules.
I agree though, their rationale for defederation from this community does not add up for me either. But at the end of the day they can be as irrational as they want with their instance.
Yeah, we’re basically on the same page here. Their instance, their rules.
I’m hopeful that in the future, accounts will be “in the fediverse”, and end users can choose what they want to see or not see. Then it’s on the instance that’s hosting the community to determine what’s okay to host or not.
How would you want to handle authentication? The user stores their own keyring, like Nostr?
Never heard of Nostr.
PKI? GPG? Private key shows you own the account. All instances keep a copy of your public key. You go direct to the instance to get the content. When you want to post you sign your message and send it along.
I’m sure smarter people then me have considered this and more so I’m not sure what’s possible.
Eh, I get both sides of the argument. They’re not deciding what you can or can’t see, they’re deciding what you can or can’t see while using their resources. Personally, that type of censorship would lead me to be looking for another instance, but I also get where they’re coming from. Kinda.
I get where they’re coming from too. I guess they just want to avoid any potential issues. That being said, the recent piracy issue reddit faced where companies tried to get reddit to reveal some users’ IPs for saying they torrented a movie is a good example that talking about piracy is not inherently illegal, as long as they weren’t actually sharing the files on the site.
A possible solution is continue federation but not allow caching and have users browse content from the community directly, so there’s no liability of having the content on .world servers. That’s resource intensive and might need major lemmy code changes though.
Also, as others mentioned, it seems this was started by a troll who was being petty and claimed the community is rule-breaking, and the admins were easily spooked.
Dude I understand where you coming from but no admins wants to deal with legal shit when they pay for infrastructure and some donation. I understand completely why they’re defederating so guys like you and me should stfu and use their free stuff that we got without being tracked by big tech and getting our data harvested.
I get “in the real world” is different but lemmy.world shouldn’t be held responsible for what another instance or their users are doing.
Where is the line drawn? I buy a harddrive to store movies, use my ISP to download it, power company to run the PC. Should we sue them also? Should they try and censor what I do? WD sees a movie on my disk, should they delete it?
The way lemmy is programmed is kinda ghettoz youre not getting it straight from another instance - first the request gets saved on lemmy.world, then send to you from its cache.
The saving of this cache puts them at rist of hosting copyrighted material (even if copyright is bullshit)
I don’t see how that risk is any greater than any mailing list potentially forwarding copyrighted material.
As long as the instance would comply with any relevant DMCA request, it seems unlikely that legal action could be taken against them.
I see what you’re saying, and I wish that was the case. To play devil’s advocate here though, at least your ISP and WD have a legal team (at least I’d assume) to deal with frivolous lawsuits - most Lemmy admins however do not.
WD also can’t feasibly remove the content from your drive (yet?), that would be easy to prove to any judge. That is not the case for instance admins where it’d be easy for anyone to testify that there is indeed a “Purge/Block Community” button available for instance admins.
Yeah, and my ISP has been legally told to block all Access to IPTV and do so. Why this happens I don’t understand (or agree with). Going after the source is the only one true way to stop access.
Cloudflare is a popular service for public torrent sites because they cache the content, protect from DDOS, and hide the server address. They’re not on the hook for what their customers do.
Agreed! If I had to take a guess, its a Risk vs Reward game so-to-speak. Your ISP doesn’t really have anything to lose by complying, but Cloudflare’s whole business revolves around reputation (something most ISPs clearly don’t care about unfortunately) along with being a massive CDN. To them, the risk of having their reputation sullied by someone going “I don’t like this” and taking down a potentially paying customer’s site makes it worthwhile fighting the legal battles that could come out of not complying with a takedown request.
Just guessing of course, but it would somewhat make sense.
That’s funny because lemmy.world has been blocking every community for hours on end multiple times a week on a seemingly regular basis. Their shits broke.
They aren’t doing that intentionally. They’re being DDOSd into the ground by someone(s) using SQL commands specifically crafted to hamstring their database. You can read about it here if their instance is up.
Was to lazy to change instances even though .world was always down. Actively censoring made me finally pull the plug. Thanks for helping me out I guess
I was on Lemmy World too, but lately they’ve started to restrict more and more. Restricting access to piracy was my limit
I mean, the great thing about federation is that you can just have different accounts for different servers
Any word on where lemmy.one stands on this? For the moment, I’m still getting this, but I’ll create another account elsewhere if necessary.
The issue with lemmy.one is that it appears the admin has lost interest in doing anything at all with it. The person who started it hasn’t been online for months, and when the server has issues no one resolves them or even notices.
I’m surprised it ever even came back up after it got broken for so long.
Moved to lemmy.blahaj.zone because of this. And also I kinda got fed up with the outages even though it’s not their fault. Glad to see the federation thing is working as intended.
Wasn’t it the blahaj admin who defederated from some popular instance because it had an “adorable porn” community, claiming that contained child abuse content. Nevermind that a subreddit with the same name has existed for like a decade. And when proven wrong they doubled down and never admitted falsely accusing people of serious crimes.
welcome to blahaj. our image uploads and the lemmy frontend constantly breaks but everyone’s really chill and really gay.
We will never block it ;)
Ok this might look like noob posting but I’m fresh af on Lemmy & trying to figure out if my account transfers here so test comment.
You can always just make an account on a different instance.
The reason why I have a lemmy account is to be a part of the piracy community. My account is also registered on this instance. So as long as I am able to access this community I am good. Plus making a second account on lemmy.world for the communities on therewill take literally seconds . Absolutely no need to panic.
Lucky that my instance moderation doesn’t oppose piracy
There’s also !piracy@lemmy.ml ?
I think they blocked that one too unfortunately. I subscribed to it from here though. I guess multiple accounts is just going to become a necessary part of being in the Fediverse, even if lemmy devs add account Migration to the software.
I did it on mastodon and the experience was pretty bad, like you had to manually follow each individual person. Is it any better on lemmy? Could i just add this whole instance via federation to my personal instance?
Currently on Lemmy there is no account migration feature currently you need to make a new account and subscribe to the communities again (though there are tools that allow you to automatically transfer the subscriptions). The content on your old account is still controled by the old account, no way to transfer ownership of it yet.
Or rolling your own server 😎
I still think that account migration would be very important in that circumstance because unless you ran your own server from the start you would still need to migrate the account and control of its content over to the account on your server.
Yeah very true, to get all that you subbed to etc.
Also to retain control of your posts and comments and not lose your history. Which is important since if they’re on the old account the old server can control and make edits to them, but with ownership transfer now they just have a copy of it and it’s harder for them to misuse it (the original has its edits federated, a copy doesn’t).
The best part is lemmy.world notified its users of this change on…discord. lol
Great social media site, where you notify end users of major changes on another platform entirely.
TBF their instance was probably down at the time
Yeaaaah, that’s sketchy. I can understand them blocking the communities out of fear of legal risk. They didn’t sign up for that kinda risk and we all know that piracy oriented sites get targeted by legal action (isn’t there currently an ongoing attempt to get Reddit to turn over user info about people who accessed piracy communities there?). But why the heck would they hide that they blocked the communities?
It’s the same as with Hexbear. I can understand why they defederated from that instance, since I’ve seen how they comment. They’re extremely aggressive. Even when they’re right, they’re assholes about it. And they’re often straight up supporting Russia, which is batshit crazy (they have no nuance, acting as if there can’t both be Nazis in Ukraine and Russia can also be an evil aggressor). But Lemmy.World was happy to silently defederate until they got called out. Even despite the fact that for Exploding Heads, they at least had a big post about it (even though Exploding Heads is far worse).
My main account is on the piracy instance. So it’s fine. I’m fine.