After 16 years of living in my city, they will finally have city-wide fiber internet. I’m pretty stoked because the fastest internet I could possibly have is a WISP at 50gbps down and 10gbps up. Now I will finally have gigabit but it’s through the city, and I’m wondering if they will be more strict on illegal content download given a possible VPN leak. I know this is highly subjective but I want to understand all the possibilities what could happen.
I spent many years working building and maintaining fiber networks, and I can unequivocally tell you that the answer to this is maybe. Normally you can treat city fiber just as any other ISP. A lot of them have different rules and different thresholds on what they allow and what they do not allow. Fiber networks are extremely expensive to build. So while you definitely need to protect the multi-million dollar investment you’ve made, depending on how you’ve built it it can be a little tricky to police what everyone is doing.
What’s interesting is just because you are not receiving notice of a DMCA infraction, that does not mean that your ISP has not received a notice. There is this idea that if you are not set up for it it is difficult to track out what account held what IP 30 days prior or 60 days prior. That is kind of a BS excuse, but I have been at companies that did not have logging because they did not want to have logging.
We did collect email notices and pass them around though weekly to see who could find the most absurd DMCA takedown. So I will say, if you were pirating some weird ass mommy fetish furry porn everyone in that call center knows it and is laughing about it.
I used to work with the networks of a university, sometimes dealing with DMCA notices. I’m honestly surprised I didn’t ever see anything super weird; it was only ever popular movies and TV shows.
What I’m trying to say is, I’m surprised the creators of the furry porn cared enough about their intellectual property to send out DMCA notices.
ive been making jokes about ‘fiber to the desktop’ since 1996. funny we still are not quite there are we. so close!
in my experience, the faster the pipe, the less inspection. its a cost thing… when we were paying 500$/moonth for a 64k pipe (yeah thats right), you bet your ass we’re going to sit on people doin illegal/hogging shit. every bit was expensive. when we updated to 1.54mbps t1 things got slightly more lax, but still, usage mattered, hence DPI, packet shaping and the like. when broadband came people just stopped paying attention.
My father just had the electricians pull in Cat 7 Ethernet at a friends place, but they used Cat 6 terminators. After that fiasco we were also discussing if it woulnd’t have been simpler to have them pull fiber and use media converters plus a switch with some SFP+ and SFP slots.
There’s no realistic scenario where the fiber for the street comes to your desktop. Some homelabs have fiber from the street to a switch/router, then more fiber from there to the desktop.
Connecting to a switch/router doesn’t change anything, that’s just how the Internet works. The fiber from the street is almost certainly connected to switches before it gets to your house as well.
If anything would break the “fiber to the desktop” meme, it’s the fact that most residential ISP ONTs I’m aware of do not support SFP, which means that you’d have to get copper out of the ONT, then convert it back into fiber. You’d have to get lucky with an ISP that has compatible options.
I am indifferent…while I agree that it should be, I think ISPs should be absorbed into the government and made as a service like power/water. I’m sick of the big 2 here raping everyone and acting like it’s our fault that we got raped.
I refuse to get fiber until resellers are allowed to use the infrastructure that the citizens already paid for but is held by a monopoly.
While I understand the sentiment, I kind of disagree with this. Cities implement fiber in different ways. Not all of them focus or care about residential service. In my city, they essentially set themselves up as a backhaul carrier. So when ISPs move into town rather than building out large infrastructure they connect into the city’s and pay the city for interconnect. That money then goes to city services which is why we have so many parks and different programs.
Usually resellers are allowed to use it. It might be prohibitively expensive for them, but there is availability. Again that depends on how the city has it set up, but typically you as a citizen are getting a return on that investment either way.
So you get to pay for it with your taxes and then again when the ISPs hook up to it?
Why not have the city be the isp? They would still get the money but there is more opportunity for regulation to prevent for profit price gouging and the money stays local. Only a portion of the money you give to isp goes back to the city now instead of all of it.
I think the issue with what you’re saying here is that you’re assuming an ISP is going to pay the same amount that residential customers pay. They will ultimately pay several times more than what would the same amount of residential customers of your own pay. There is a general rule that you do not build fiber where fiber already exists. It is just that expensive. So if a city’s fiber network is laid down first, ISPs typically will not cross those boundaries. They would rather pay for hand off as that is actually cheaper than building and maintaining the infrastructure.
One of the big differences between backhaul carriers and ISPs is the amount of actual personnel required as well. Backall carriers don’t need giant call centers filled with customer service reps and residential techs. They don’t need an army of field services to go out and install local services for residents.
Final point I can make to that is that regardless if it’s an ISP or it’s a city-based service, nobody builds fiber networks with residential in mind. When you build a fiber network you build it to businesses because the same service that you could sell to a residential customer you could sell to a business customer with a 10x multiplier on it. After you establish business services, you backfill residential. I worked accounts where one business client equaled 10,000 residential.
In the end, cities that establish themselves as backhaul carriers make more money for the city because they will cost less to build, less to maintain, and have the advantage of business billing.
Am I mistaken, or did you want to say 50mbps and 10mbps?
50gbps seems way above what a wireless network can do.
For a vpn, your connection through wireless or fiber is exactly the same. The city only provides the fiber infrastructure. When you get Internet, it’s through a provider which will use their equipments and main network (they link their network to the city infrastructure, using their devices. At least, it’s how it works in France). Unless the provider is the city.
Tho I guess that providers do give data to the state so whatever the case, it would be the same thing.
Fiber internet multiplied my connection speeds by six for about the same price I was paying, and this is before wired connections. This is a hell yeah from me.
Municipal fibre is the only good ISP I’ve ever had. Communities around Colorado are rolling it out. I pay like $70/mo for 1gb/s, consistently get 300-600mb/s download speeds, haven’t had any downtime in a year, and zero piracy warnings using public trackers without a VPN.
Or under 600 per year for 10gb/s with Wingo. Or used to be as they seemed to have jacked up the price and dropped to 1gb/s making Init7’s a better option. Thankfully I’m grandfathered into the old 49/month for 10gb/s for life.
Thing is, yes. Yallo or wingo or all those providers are “cheaper”. But - for example in the case of yallo, you get double-natted - which means you could not really set up a home server accessible from the outside world even if you wanted to. Then, there’s also the support of wingo and yallo and so on which is… Terrible. I actually ordered yallo Internet at first because I got sold on it over the phone - the next day, before anything got shipped or anything, I wanted to annul my contract because, well, I found out about their shitty stuff. I was redirected like 8 Times across 8 levels of ‘support’ until I got it through.
I went for init7. Day it was supposed to go up, it didn’t. Phone support was competent, said everything looked ok from their end. If I was sure the problem wasn’t on my end (router, settings, fiber), they could send a technician along the next day - but if the problem would end up being on my side, I’d have to pay for it. As I was sure about what I was doing, the next morning I had a competent technician in my apartment who within 20 minutes total identified the issue and fixed it (broken fiber in the distribution center). That is good support.
I am willing to pay more to support init7, because they’re doing great work.
But yes, we have lots of low cost options. For example, I pay 23 bucks a month with yallo for unlimited 5g data, calls and SMS across the whole of Europe.
I’m at 5Gb for 30€/month, but it’s 2x2.5Gb (I think upload is 1Gb) but I don’t have anything better than a 1Gb switch/network cards and so on anyways :-D
The box includes wifi6 though, 300Mb “practical” which is kind of having nothing to do with download speeds but quite comfy.
I’m at 5Gb for 30€/month, but it’s 2x2.5Gb (I think upload is 1Gb) but I don’t have anything better than a 1Gb switch/network cards and so on anyways :-D
The box includes wifi6 though, 300Mb “practical” which is kind of having nothing to do with download speeds but quite comfy.
We are going to build a national fiber network -> we built a mixed technology network -> people are not happy with the 30y old coaxial networks we bought and told them was fiber
We had fiber at our previous house for about six years, and it was great. The prices were lower, the speeds were greater, there were no limits… It’s kind of funny, because it was a college town of about 200K people in the middle of nothing else.
Now I’m up in the suburbs of Chicago where a single town can have a 200K population, but fiber is nowhere on the horizon. Instead we get terrible service that’s constantly showing packet loss with slow transfer rates. We do still have unlimited, but with these transfer rates it doesn’t really matter. :)
As far as monitoring traffic goes, I guess it depends on how you’re doing things. If your DNS requests are still hitting your ISP or aren’t encrypted, then yeah, they might know. I don’t know if they’ll care, but of course not all illegal content is treated the same.
So basically a non-answer to your question, along with me saying I liked having fiber.
I have att fiber here on the nw side and it’s pretty damn sweet. 1gbps up AND down. I just have to keep dodging bullets, tripping over dead bodies and putting up with a bunch of snowflake libs to have it.
I have a residential 25Gbit/s connection and although I only use 15 gbit of it for my server it is really a godsend for torrenting, hosting and running several relays and nodes for different networks.
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I spent many years working building and maintaining fiber networks, and I can unequivocally tell you that the answer to this is maybe. Normally you can treat city fiber just as any other ISP. A lot of them have different rules and different thresholds on what they allow and what they do not allow. Fiber networks are extremely expensive to build. So while you definitely need to protect the multi-million dollar investment you’ve made, depending on how you’ve built it it can be a little tricky to police what everyone is doing.
What’s interesting is just because you are not receiving notice of a DMCA infraction, that does not mean that your ISP has not received a notice. There is this idea that if you are not set up for it it is difficult to track out what account held what IP 30 days prior or 60 days prior. That is kind of a BS excuse, but I have been at companies that did not have logging because they did not want to have logging.
We did collect email notices and pass them around though weekly to see who could find the most absurd DMCA takedown. So I will say, if you were pirating some weird ass mommy fetish furry porn everyone in that call center knows it and is laughing about it.
I used to work with the networks of a university, sometimes dealing with DMCA notices. I’m honestly surprised I didn’t ever see anything super weird; it was only ever popular movies and TV shows.
What I’m trying to say is, I’m surprised the creators of the furry porn cared enough about their intellectual property to send out DMCA notices.
ive been making jokes about ‘fiber to the desktop’ since 1996. funny we still are not quite there are we. so close!
in my experience, the faster the pipe, the less inspection. its a cost thing… when we were paying 500$/moonth for a 64k pipe (yeah thats right), you bet your ass we’re going to sit on people doin illegal/hogging shit. every bit was expensive. when we updated to 1.54mbps t1 things got slightly more lax, but still, usage mattered, hence DPI, packet shaping and the like. when broadband came people just stopped paying attention.
I’ve heard of people doing fiber to the desktop in their homelabs. Seems a little overkill, but it’s the cool factor that counts!
My father just had the electricians pull in Cat 7 Ethernet at a friends place, but they used Cat 6 terminators. After that fiasco we were also discussing if it woulnd’t have been simpler to have them pull fiber and use media converters plus a switch with some SFP+ and SFP slots.
There’s no realistic scenario where the fiber for the street comes to your desktop. Some homelabs have fiber from the street to a switch/router, then more fiber from there to the desktop.
Connecting to a switch/router doesn’t change anything, that’s just how the Internet works. The fiber from the street is almost certainly connected to switches before it gets to your house as well.
If anything would break the “fiber to the desktop” meme, it’s the fact that most residential ISP ONTs I’m aware of do not support SFP, which means that you’d have to get copper out of the ONT, then convert it back into fiber. You’d have to get lucky with an ISP that has compatible options.
seeeems like overkill, but i also remember optimizing my 40MB hard drive making jokes in IRC about someday having a 1GB hard drive! no way!
I am indifferent…while I agree that it should be, I think ISPs should be absorbed into the government and made as a service like power/water. I’m sick of the big 2 here raping everyone and acting like it’s our fault that we got raped.
I refuse to get fiber until resellers are allowed to use the infrastructure that the citizens already paid for but is held by a monopoly.
No one cares.
About your comment? I agree…no one cares about your comment.
🍬
While I understand the sentiment, I kind of disagree with this. Cities implement fiber in different ways. Not all of them focus or care about residential service. In my city, they essentially set themselves up as a backhaul carrier. So when ISPs move into town rather than building out large infrastructure they connect into the city’s and pay the city for interconnect. That money then goes to city services which is why we have so many parks and different programs.
Usually resellers are allowed to use it. It might be prohibitively expensive for them, but there is availability. Again that depends on how the city has it set up, but typically you as a citizen are getting a return on that investment either way.
So you get to pay for it with your taxes and then again when the ISPs hook up to it? Why not have the city be the isp? They would still get the money but there is more opportunity for regulation to prevent for profit price gouging and the money stays local. Only a portion of the money you give to isp goes back to the city now instead of all of it.
I think the issue with what you’re saying here is that you’re assuming an ISP is going to pay the same amount that residential customers pay. They will ultimately pay several times more than what would the same amount of residential customers of your own pay. There is a general rule that you do not build fiber where fiber already exists. It is just that expensive. So if a city’s fiber network is laid down first, ISPs typically will not cross those boundaries. They would rather pay for hand off as that is actually cheaper than building and maintaining the infrastructure.
One of the big differences between backhaul carriers and ISPs is the amount of actual personnel required as well. Backall carriers don’t need giant call centers filled with customer service reps and residential techs. They don’t need an army of field services to go out and install local services for residents.
Final point I can make to that is that regardless if it’s an ISP or it’s a city-based service, nobody builds fiber networks with residential in mind. When you build a fiber network you build it to businesses because the same service that you could sell to a residential customer you could sell to a business customer with a 10x multiplier on it. After you establish business services, you backfill residential. I worked accounts where one business client equaled 10,000 residential.
In the end, cities that establish themselves as backhaul carriers make more money for the city because they will cost less to build, less to maintain, and have the advantage of business billing.
Really harsh language there
Am I mistaken, or did you want to say 50mbps and 10mbps? 50gbps seems way above what a wireless network can do.
For a vpn, your connection through wireless or fiber is exactly the same. The city only provides the fiber infrastructure. When you get Internet, it’s through a provider which will use their equipments and main network (they link their network to the city infrastructure, using their devices. At least, it’s how it works in France). Unless the provider is the city.
Tho I guess that providers do give data to the state so whatever the case, it would be the same thing.
OP is clearly a tier 2 ISP who is reselling bandwidth
Fiber internet multiplied my connection speeds by six for about the same price I was paying, and this is before wired connections. This is a hell yeah from me.
All the possibilities are up to your vpn.
How can your ISP do anything like that? How can they even circumvent VPNs? What country are you in? China?
Municipal fibre is the only good ISP I’ve ever had. Communities around Colorado are rolling it out. I pay like $70/mo for 1gb/s, consistently get 300-600mb/s download speeds, haven’t had any downtime in a year, and zero piracy warnings using public trackers without a VPN.
What’s your upload speed like?
LOL
Most consumer routers will be nowhere close to 10Gbps… so yeah.
Big lol I meant mbps
I mean, I can get symmetrical 25gbit/s for 777 bucks a year IN Switzerland. No limits, big ipv6 subnet, great provider. Init7.
Or under 600 per year for 10gb/s with Wingo. Or used to be as they seemed to have jacked up the price and dropped to 1gb/s making Init7’s a better option. Thankfully I’m grandfathered into the old 49/month for 10gb/s for life.
Thing is, yes. Yallo or wingo or all those providers are “cheaper”. But - for example in the case of yallo, you get double-natted - which means you could not really set up a home server accessible from the outside world even if you wanted to. Then, there’s also the support of wingo and yallo and so on which is… Terrible. I actually ordered yallo Internet at first because I got sold on it over the phone - the next day, before anything got shipped or anything, I wanted to annul my contract because, well, I found out about their shitty stuff. I was redirected like 8 Times across 8 levels of ‘support’ until I got it through.
I went for init7. Day it was supposed to go up, it didn’t. Phone support was competent, said everything looked ok from their end. If I was sure the problem wasn’t on my end (router, settings, fiber), they could send a technician along the next day - but if the problem would end up being on my side, I’d have to pay for it. As I was sure about what I was doing, the next morning I had a competent technician in my apartment who within 20 minutes total identified the issue and fixed it (broken fiber in the distribution center). That is good support.
I am willing to pay more to support init7, because they’re doing great work.
But yes, we have lots of low cost options. For example, I pay 23 bucks a month with yallo for unlimited 5g data, calls and SMS across the whole of Europe.
Init7 rocks. Besides the 333 CHF initial setup fee all plans cost the same. 777 for 1/10/25Gbit/s.
And it has been 777 for many years now so “thanks” to inflation the price has only gone down.
Yup. The mentality is great. ‘you get a line - a 1 or 10gbit line costs us the same once it’s set up, so you pay the same price’
Should I tell you about Romania? Well, better not.
Or France :-D
How is the internet at my Romanian brothers and sisters homes nowadys?
1Gbps, no rate limit to download/upload, 8 euro/month
That’s really really good.
I’m at 5Gb for 30€/month, but it’s 2x2.5Gb (I think upload is 1Gb) but I don’t have anything better than a 1Gb switch/network cards and so on anyways :-D
The box includes wifi6 though, 300Mb “practical” which is kind of having nothing to do with download speeds but quite comfy.
Cheers from France!
That’s really really good.
I’m at 5Gb for 30€/month, but it’s 2x2.5Gb (I think upload is 1Gb) but I don’t have anything better than a 1Gb switch/network cards and so on anyways :-D
The box includes wifi6 though, 300Mb “practical” which is kind of having nothing to do with download speeds but quite comfy.
Cheers from France!
WiFi 7 really is the shit man
cries in Australian NBN
We are going to build a national fiber network -> we built a mixed technology network -> people are not happy with the 30y old coaxial networks we bought and told them was fiber
We had fiber at our previous house for about six years, and it was great. The prices were lower, the speeds were greater, there were no limits… It’s kind of funny, because it was a college town of about 200K people in the middle of nothing else.
Now I’m up in the suburbs of Chicago where a single town can have a 200K population, but fiber is nowhere on the horizon. Instead we get terrible service that’s constantly showing packet loss with slow transfer rates. We do still have unlimited, but with these transfer rates it doesn’t really matter. :)
As far as monitoring traffic goes, I guess it depends on how you’re doing things. If your DNS requests are still hitting your ISP or aren’t encrypted, then yeah, they might know. I don’t know if they’ll care, but of course not all illegal content is treated the same.
So basically a non-answer to your question, along with me saying I liked having fiber.
I have att fiber here on the nw side and it’s pretty damn sweet. 1gbps up AND down. I just have to keep dodging bullets, tripping over dead bodies and putting up with a bunch of snowflake libs to have it.
ETA the /s that I thought would be obvious
I have a residential 25Gbit/s connection and although I only use 15 gbit of it for my server it is really a godsend for torrenting, hosting and running several relays and nodes for different networks.
Well quite frankly with all the meat people consume, they’ll certainly need help passing it. I recommend state provided salads.
holy shitballs…
Holy forking shirtballs
You probably meant 50mbps down and 10mbps up
For real. If OP is complaining about 50Gbps down, it’s because they’re a time traveler from 2050 and their storage drives start at 5 exabytes.
My ISP offers 25 Gbit/s up and down for 64.75 CHF per month. Currently I’m just too cheap to get hardware for it, so I’m on the 1 Gbit/s plan for the same price.
So maybe a bit sooner than 2050.
I never said it’s impossible. I said it’s odd that OP would be complaining about those speeds, as if 50Gbps is slow.
I didn’t refute that it was impossible. I refuted that the time where 50 Gbit/s is slow is that far off if 25Gbit/s is possible today.