New research suggests more newcomers to Canada have chosen to leave in recent years, a threat to a country that relies on immigration to drive population and economic growth.
New research suggests more newcomers to Canada have chosen to leave in recent years, a threat to a country that relies on immigration to drive population and economic growth.
The rate of immigrants leaving the country, or onward migration, has been steadily increasing since the 1980s and is rising among recent cohorts, suggesting newcomers “may not be seeing the benefits of moving to Canada,” according to a study on immigrant retention by the Institute for Canadian Citizenship and the Conference Board of Canada.
The report, published Tuesday, underscored the risks of Canada failing to meet expectations of newcomers, who are facing worsening housing affordability, a strained health-care system and underemployment, among other issues. It also highlighted how disillusionment among immigrants can slow down progress even in a country that consistently sets fresh records for population gains.
“It’s a reflection on our broader society and more intractable failings that we have. If immigrants are saying ‘no, thanks’ and moving on, that’s a real existential threat to Canada’s prosperity,” Daniel Bernhard, chief executive officer of the Institute for Canadian Citizenship, a pro-immigration advocacy group, said in an interview. “We need to wake up and recognize that if we don’t deliver, people will leave. And if they leave, we’re in trouble.”
Prime Minister Justin Trudeau’s government has been using immigration to rapidly add more workers to stave off economic decline from an aging populace. But record population growth in recent years has led to growing criticism that its policies have exacerbated existing housing shortages and added more pressure on infrastructure and services like health care.
The report showed spikes in the annual rates of immigrants leaving Canada in 2017 and 2019, reaching 20-year highs of 1.1 per cent and 1.18 per cent, respectively. That’s compared to the average of 0.9 per cent of people who were granted permanent residence after 1982 who leave Canada each year. While the numbers may not sound significant, they add up over time and can lead to attrition of 20 per cent or more of an arrival cohort over 25 years.
Earlier this week, a survey by Environics Institute showed waning public support for high levels of immigration due to concerns of housing affordability and availability. That dwindling support, combined with growing dissatisfaction among newcomers, will be a fresh challenge for a government that’s trying to placate an outcry over an affordability crisis while competing in a global race for skilled workers.
The lack of enthusiasm for staying in Canada, which led to onward migration by some newcomers, is also behind a sharp drop in immigrants choosing to become Canadians, according to Bernhard. The proportion of permanent residents who took up citizenship within 10 years of arrival dropped by 40 per cent between 2001 and 2021.
“If Canada can’t reverse these issues and can’t provide these vital services and affordability, immigrants will leave,” Bernhard said. “We need to be working harder to make sure that they’re happy here, so that they contribute here, become Canadians and contribute to our shared success. We need to realize that on balance, immigrants may owe Canada less than Canada owes immigrants.”
Affordability issues aside, I think there’s another thing driving New Canadians away. Our immigration system seems to prioritize entry of people with really high levels of education and, depending on the industry, that education may not be valued/competitive in Canada, compared to their previous country. The result is that these New Canadians often end up doing much less skilled work than they trained for and would understandably be very disappointed as a result. Off the top of my head, I’ve known 3 engineers and 3 medical doctors in this situation. Meanwhile, there are industries (e.g., construction, I believe) where we have shortages of skilled workers in Canada (and thus good opportunities for New Canadians), and I’m pretty sure our immigration system isn’t really responsive
But there’s a reason why their diplomas might not have been recognized. At my friend’s workplace they’ve hired two employees who supposedly have a PhD in network engineering and they both have less knowledge than he had when he got out of CEGEP (college)…
I hear ya. In that case, I’d say Immigration Canada shouldn’t value those PhDs either. I guess I think that the immigration department should be steeped in job market and related data. E.g., what kind of skills do we need, how recognizable is foreign training (at school-specific levels) in the field in Canada
For these they can simply implement a mentorship for especially the medical sector, put them through a program that after you past sufficient knowledge/practical test, let the system’s senior evaluate and monitor for like 3~6 months. You should not just invalidate their degrees and ask them to go another 5~7 years to then back in to practice. The people that does evaluation of work should just judge base on the work and result.(say for surgery, there is 1 onsite that minitor the progress and keep marks/records, and another 2 or 3 randomly selected by the province authority to put additional marks from procedural footage/etc. And another round for post surgery recover/results/follow ups. If the best doctors in your system can’t evaluate how their new peers work is up to par, they probably shouldn’t be in that position.
Oh, and fucking pay them well for doing these evaluations.
Engineers and doctors are a restricted profession because those professions can kill people when exercised outside the norms and regulations we are accustomed to in Canada. Being an “engineer” in another country doesn’t automatically grant you the right to call yourself an engineer in Canada. There’s more to it than just education on paper. Engineers and Doctors receive training that is specific to the practices, codes and regulations and expected in the Canadian market they are expected to practice in.
Retraining those professional qualifications for an immigrant is really complicated. We would basically need a dedicated school or two specialized in skills transfer And recertification for hundreds of different countries across dozens of different diplomas. Plus the immigrants would need to be willing. And who’s going to pay for that? I think our educational funding should be prioritized to Canadian students first.
Have you tried to get in through the bonkers immigration system though?
It’s a mess… a massive mess. It favours people who know how to abuse the system. TFWs are exploited and worked like slaves while high skilled immigrants who would contribute in big measurable ways - like doctors - are blocked at every turn. I personally know 4 doctors who all tried to come to Canada. None can get in… they can’t get the mandatory residency positions because they are full up with many many many more people wanting a spot than are made available… meanwhile Canadians are literally dying in the clinic queues because we don’t have enough doctors.
Can you blame them? I feel I had more freedom 10 years ago making minimum wage than I do now with an adult job and salary. We are being milked dry and it only gets worse.
It gets even worse if you’re from the US, which requires you to continue to pay taxes, even if you’re on the other side of the world. Then you have to pay US taxes and Canadian taxes, or, in the case of one of my friends, US and Finnish taxes.
The US is one of only two countries that attach taxes to citizenship and not current residence. The other is Eritrea, a country mainly known for its near-total lack of civil rights and freedom of the press; a country which regularly sits near or at the bottom of any list or study that attempts to score things like human rights and freedom of speech. Funny, because one of our parties seems to think Eritrea is a cool place to emulate.
US gives tax credits for any taxes you paid to your resident country. You therefore only pay the taxes if US taxes are higher than your resident country, which is almost never case. So really you just have to file US taxes not actually pay anything more.
I have a friend who’s been living in Finland for years who still has to pay taxes to the US. Granted, he may be fucking up his taxes and he is a freelancer, so that might make things different, but yeah. You have to pay a lot more in taxes as a freelancer than if you’re employed by a company (companies have to pay 50% of taxes, so if you’re a freelancer then you have to cover the amount that’d normally be covered by your employer).
You have to pay a lot more in taxes as a freelancer than if you’re employed by a company (companies have to pay 50% of taxes
This sounds very incorrect. Perhaps Finland is different, but in Canada companies just “withhold taxes at source”. So of you make $100k and pay $31k in tax, payroll will just remove 31%, sent directly to the GoC (and revenue QC). Companies are absolutely not paying a portion for you, they are just remove the monies for you.
As an employer or payer, you are responsible for deducting income tax [and] there is no employer contribution required. CRA
Finnish tax law is trickier due to resident/EU/non-resident finagling my, but on the surface it looks like it’s just tax at source like Canada. Suomi.fi
Perhaps there is confusion with insurance/pension/social securities payments? Companies will often contribute to these, and it looks like employers take the majority in Finland with an ~9:5 split averaged over all payments.
I believe that’s only true if the countries have a reciprocal tax treaty. In practice I think the US has one with most countries, but I’m sure there are exceptions where both the US and that country would expect you to pay their full taxes.
What’s worse is that not a single politician seems to worry about housing costs/cost of living. All they talk about is scandals and foreign affairs, while Canadians drown in debt
And PP is trying to line things up so the big “cost of living” debate of the next election will be the carbon tax. Out of all the costs of daily living, they will spend their time bickering over the only one that gets rebated.
If Canadians are concerned about cost of living then the obvious answer is not voting for a Conservative. Conservative policies lead to expansive futures.
EU. I’ve been scouting some Nordic countries and I would double my salary and my rent would drop about %30. All where you’re not worked to death, eat real food and get better health care for free because you’re a human. Some of them give 2 month vacations base (Italy).
Here, I’m working to death so my boss can stack another million to his bank account next year. And I get less than 10% of that. Gonna tap out.
I mean it all depends where. I was looking specifically at places with higher pay and lower rent/mortgages. Out of the 12ish, 3 stood out (I think Sweden, Finland, and I can’t recall the third but I was surprised that Norway wasn’t it) to be a huge boost for me just financially.
Quality of life, so health care and how you are generally treated at work was also high on the list. Through my research, I was surprised that Austria had great support for its citizens especially when it came to housing and built most of its apartment units with grocery stores and gyms and daycares for families.
I have an EU visa so for me, I would sorta just be going home.
All I can say is that all the dat I saw, NA was near the bottom for a first world nation when it came to wages, treatment and benefits of any kind. The only thing we lead in is consumption of everything.
Income to expenses. I could afford to travel once every 2 years, buy fresh produce, order takeout or eat at a restaurant once every week or two.
No matter how much I cut down expenses the cost continues to creep up while my wages don’t. I do not pay for any subscriptions and I don’t drink Starbucks - just the cheapest instant coffee I can find.
Gotcha. Yeah, inflation is hitting everyone but millionaires. I’m getting into shape and eating healthy isn’t cheap but now eating out isn’t cheap either. Had Opa the other day for supper and it was $24 for a Gyro wrap and a side Calamari. Like god damn, $24?? I can buy 1kg of chicken for less and that’s like 3-4 meals.
Yeah it’s insane when you look at cost per meal. My grocery budget is $40 per week, a bit under $6 per day or $2 per meal. So one dining experience is easily 10x my usual meal cost - very difficult to justify. And very easy to blow the week’s budget on a single meal.
I also find home cooked meals, even cooked by me are much better than anything I buy. I know how much salt I’m adding, I know what I’m not adding and it always, always tastes better. $6 day is impressive bro. I’m spending 50-60$ every 3-4 days easily.
Meal planning/prep helps, and buying things in bulk of course. Potatoes, rice, pasta, soup broth, tomato sauce, frozen veggies - anything that can be “stretched” to make multiple meals.
There are a few certain dishes I can’t get close to in deliciousness no matter how much I try - especially butter chicken, compared to the local Indian place, it’s no contest! Unfortunately that’s a $30 meal with garlic naan (which is mandatory)!
Wouldn’t they be emigrants, then? Regardless, people across this country are tending to believe RW conspiracy theories and propaganda rather than truth. One of the biggest challenges we face as democracies is addressing out of control propaganda.
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Affordability issues aside, I think there’s another thing driving New Canadians away. Our immigration system seems to prioritize entry of people with really high levels of education and, depending on the industry, that education may not be valued/competitive in Canada, compared to their previous country. The result is that these New Canadians often end up doing much less skilled work than they trained for and would understandably be very disappointed as a result. Off the top of my head, I’ve known 3 engineers and 3 medical doctors in this situation. Meanwhile, there are industries (e.g., construction, I believe) where we have shortages of skilled workers in Canada (and thus good opportunities for New Canadians), and I’m pretty sure our immigration system isn’t really responsive
But there’s a reason why their diplomas might not have been recognized. At my friend’s workplace they’ve hired two employees who supposedly have a PhD in network engineering and they both have less knowledge than he had when he got out of CEGEP (college)…
I hear ya. In that case, I’d say Immigration Canada shouldn’t value those PhDs either. I guess I think that the immigration department should be steeped in job market and related data. E.g., what kind of skills do we need, how recognizable is foreign training (at school-specific levels) in the field in Canada
For these they can simply implement a mentorship for especially the medical sector, put them through a program that after you past sufficient knowledge/practical test, let the system’s senior evaluate and monitor for like 3~6 months. You should not just invalidate their degrees and ask them to go another 5~7 years to then back in to practice. The people that does evaluation of work should just judge base on the work and result.(say for surgery, there is 1 onsite that minitor the progress and keep marks/records, and another 2 or 3 randomly selected by the province authority to put additional marks from procedural footage/etc. And another round for post surgery recover/results/follow ups. If the best doctors in your system can’t evaluate how their new peers work is up to par, they probably shouldn’t be in that position.
Oh, and fucking pay them well for doing these evaluations.
But immigration mostly funds out universities, so its ok cause we built our system around financially abusing immigrants
Engineers and doctors are a restricted profession because those professions can kill people when exercised outside the norms and regulations we are accustomed to in Canada. Being an “engineer” in another country doesn’t automatically grant you the right to call yourself an engineer in Canada. There’s more to it than just education on paper. Engineers and Doctors receive training that is specific to the practices, codes and regulations and expected in the Canadian market they are expected to practice in.
Retraining those professional qualifications for an immigrant is really complicated. We would basically need a dedicated school or two specialized in skills transfer And recertification for hundreds of different countries across dozens of different diplomas. Plus the immigrants would need to be willing. And who’s going to pay for that? I think our educational funding should be prioritized to Canadian students first.
Highly skilled workers benefit our economy at large.
Our population is still going up, so who gives a shit if some of them move on?
Less people in the 8 billion non-Canadians want to move here… it’s still tens or hundreds of millions of people that want to do so though.
Have you tried to get in through the bonkers immigration system though?
It’s a mess… a massive mess. It favours people who know how to abuse the system. TFWs are exploited and worked like slaves while high skilled immigrants who would contribute in big measurable ways - like doctors - are blocked at every turn. I personally know 4 doctors who all tried to come to Canada. None can get in… they can’t get the mandatory residency positions because they are full up with many many many more people wanting a spot than are made available… meanwhile Canadians are literally dying in the clinic queues because we don’t have enough doctors.
Yes we should try to recruit specialized positions, but that’s not relevant to this discussion about general immigration patterns.
There’s still a hundred people waiting to move here for every person who doesn’t decide to stay.
What exactly do you think we’re doing now?
Can you blame them? I feel I had more freedom 10 years ago making minimum wage than I do now with an adult job and salary. We are being milked dry and it only gets worse.
It gets even worse if you’re from the US, which requires you to continue to pay taxes, even if you’re on the other side of the world. Then you have to pay US taxes and Canadian taxes, or, in the case of one of my friends, US and Finnish taxes.
The US is one of only two countries that attach taxes to citizenship and not current residence. The other is Eritrea, a country mainly known for its near-total lack of civil rights and freedom of the press; a country which regularly sits near or at the bottom of any list or study that attempts to score things like human rights and freedom of speech. Funny, because one of our parties seems to think Eritrea is a cool place to emulate.
US gives tax credits for any taxes you paid to your resident country. You therefore only pay the taxes if US taxes are higher than your resident country, which is almost never case. So really you just have to file US taxes not actually pay anything more.
I have a friend who’s been living in Finland for years who still has to pay taxes to the US. Granted, he may be fucking up his taxes and he is a freelancer, so that might make things different, but yeah. You have to pay a lot more in taxes as a freelancer than if you’re employed by a company (companies have to pay 50% of taxes, so if you’re a freelancer then you have to cover the amount that’d normally be covered by your employer).
This sounds very incorrect. Perhaps Finland is different, but in Canada companies just “withhold taxes at source”. So of you make $100k and pay $31k in tax, payroll will just remove 31%, sent directly to the GoC (and revenue QC). Companies are absolutely not paying a portion for you, they are just remove the monies for you.
Finnish tax law is trickier due to resident/EU/non-resident finagling my, but on the surface it looks like it’s just tax at source like Canada. Suomi.fi
Perhaps there is confusion with insurance/pension/social securities payments? Companies will often contribute to these, and it looks like employers take the majority in Finland with an ~9:5 split averaged over all payments.
I believe that’s only true if the countries have a reciprocal tax treaty. In practice I think the US has one with most countries, but I’m sure there are exceptions where both the US and that country would expect you to pay their full taxes.
What’s worse is that not a single politician seems to worry about housing costs/cost of living. All they talk about is scandals and foreign affairs, while Canadians drown in debt
The NDP do.
About 99% of politicians are landlords.
And PP is trying to line things up so the big “cost of living” debate of the next election will be the carbon tax. Out of all the costs of daily living, they will spend their time bickering over the only one that gets rebated.
If Canadians are concerned about cost of living then the obvious answer is not voting for a Conservative. Conservative policies lead to expansive futures.
Right! If things go thru I’ll be out of here in a couple of years too. Tired of living under the heel of a corporation.
To where though? Surely corporations and their negative influences on life is something felt everywhere?
EU. I’ve been scouting some Nordic countries and I would double my salary and my rent would drop about %30. All where you’re not worked to death, eat real food and get better health care for free because you’re a human. Some of them give 2 month vacations base (Italy).
Here, I’m working to death so my boss can stack another million to his bank account next year. And I get less than 10% of that. Gonna tap out.
I know it’s pedantic but can we stop calling it “free healthcare”? It’s not free. We pay for it with our taxes. It’s universal healthcare.
Well the US pays taxes too and that shit isn’t free there. Soooo…
It’s not free anywhere, that’s the point. It’s socialized healthcare or universal healthcare that is the good stuff.
What field do you work in if you don’t mind me asking?
I’ve heard that EU countries have better quality of life, but poorer wages/higher taxes.
Technical artist in gaming.
I mean it all depends where. I was looking specifically at places with higher pay and lower rent/mortgages. Out of the 12ish, 3 stood out (I think Sweden, Finland, and I can’t recall the third but I was surprised that Norway wasn’t it) to be a huge boost for me just financially.
Quality of life, so health care and how you are generally treated at work was also high on the list. Through my research, I was surprised that Austria had great support for its citizens especially when it came to housing and built most of its apartment units with grocery stores and gyms and daycares for families.
I have an EU visa so for me, I would sorta just be going home.
All I can say is that all the dat I saw, NA was near the bottom for a first world nation when it came to wages, treatment and benefits of any kind. The only thing we lead in is consumption of everything.
When did Italy become a Nordic country? ;)
Italy’s not and it’s currently being run by fascists
No kidding. I was able to comfortably live on a minimum wage job in 2007 in the GTA.
You had less freedom than 10 years ago? Freedom to do what?
Income to expenses. I could afford to travel once every 2 years, buy fresh produce, order takeout or eat at a restaurant once every week or two.
No matter how much I cut down expenses the cost continues to creep up while my wages don’t. I do not pay for any subscriptions and I don’t drink Starbucks - just the cheapest instant coffee I can find.
Gotcha. Yeah, inflation is hitting everyone but millionaires. I’m getting into shape and eating healthy isn’t cheap but now eating out isn’t cheap either. Had Opa the other day for supper and it was $24 for a Gyro wrap and a side Calamari. Like god damn, $24?? I can buy 1kg of chicken for less and that’s like 3-4 meals.
Yeah it’s insane when you look at cost per meal. My grocery budget is $40 per week, a bit under $6 per day or $2 per meal. So one dining experience is easily 10x my usual meal cost - very difficult to justify. And very easy to blow the week’s budget on a single meal.
I also find home cooked meals, even cooked by me are much better than anything I buy. I know how much salt I’m adding, I know what I’m not adding and it always, always tastes better. $6 day is impressive bro. I’m spending 50-60$ every 3-4 days easily.
Meal planning/prep helps, and buying things in bulk of course. Potatoes, rice, pasta, soup broth, tomato sauce, frozen veggies - anything that can be “stretched” to make multiple meals.
There are a few certain dishes I can’t get close to in deliciousness no matter how much I try - especially butter chicken, compared to the local Indian place, it’s no contest! Unfortunately that’s a $30 meal with garlic naan (which is mandatory)!
Wouldn’t they be emigrants, then? Regardless, people across this country are tending to believe RW conspiracy theories and propaganda rather than truth. One of the biggest challenges we face as democracies is addressing out of control propaganda.
History is written by the victors, and the news and social media are controlled by the billionaires
We need to organize and defeat the billionaires 🦾
I like your gumption.
Immigrants at my work talk shit about Canada all day long lol
My workplace is only citizens, and we also talk shit about Canada all day long.
We need more housing and higher wages, everything else is noise at this point