When thousands of subreddits went dark in protest, it exposed the tension at the core of Reddit. Is the web’s most reliably human forum a gold mine for investors, or an old-fashioned dumpster fire?
If you are looking to talk to actual people and hear actual opinions, the simple fact is Reddit is the best major site for it. There is nothing like it, in particular smaller hobby/technical/interest communities. And I say this as somebody who has a comment history full of “fuck Reddit.“ There is a reason Google searches are only useful if you put “Reddit“ at the end now. If you find the appropriate Reddit thread you are generally getting some of the best advice or info out there, especially with technical issues. For some hobbies/interests, the relevant sub is the only major community with any regular activity.
Is there astroturfing? Yes. Are there tons of corporate interests manipulating it? Of course. But compared to Facebook, Twitter, etc. it may as well will be public access to their corporate owned cable.
Obligatory “Fuck Reddit.” And I mean it lol. But the above is still true.
Reddit was great in some ways. It’s been on the decline for a while and I expect the IPO can only accelerate that. Unless we’re all very lucky it’s not going to explode in flames and crash into the ditch. It will just shamble on, gradually disillusioning all the people who still cling to it long after it’s lost its soul.
There will always be new, perhaps younger, users who come through who don’t know what it was like before. And of course, there will always be more veteran users who perhaps don’t care. I care that reddit is going to shit, but I’m still on it (less than pre-APIgate though). On the other hand, my brother who’s been on reddit almost as long as me, doesn’t care. As long as gets his memes or whatever else he uses reddit for, he’ll be there. He barely knew about that protests last summer.
It seems that the only way a social media actually collapses is when the company itself pulls the plug. Twitter has been circling the drain since Elon bought it, but it’s still one of the main nodes of information from companies, governments, journalists, and just regular people. It’s still used by millions of people daily, even if it’s also used by millions of bots, too. Google+ was in a sad state for a bit, but there were still users. It only died when Google finally shut it down. I think Vine was in a similar situation back in the day.
That is what was so upsetting about last summer. I had a lot invested in Reddit. Emotionally, mentall, hell just time-wise. After the “landed gentry“ comment, I just couldn’t deal with it anymore. It was so disrespectful and completely missed the mark for why most moderators do what they do. Like I get it, many people dog moderators and think they’re just “power tripping jannies.” But fact of the matter is most moderators are perfectly fine people just volunteering their time to foster a community they care about.
So for the CEO of a company whose entire existence is owed to the labor of unpaid users that they never talk to or interact with in any meaningful way outside of a handful of mod teams to come out and call us “entitled” and other adjectives because we are protesting a terrible decision and advocating for people with disabilities…well, many of us left lol
This is the Internet in general, i think… when you compare how many sites i used a decade ago to now, its cvastly fewer. five or so years ago, that would have probably been due to things consolidating… But now it is just because almost everything online is relatively valueless. it is a soulless wasteland with little to offer. Sure, ym digitital usage is enormous, but i engaged somewhat reguarly on internet sites. Now its nothing to me. Hell, I dont even really keep up on Lemmy anymore. Smaller use internet was thrilling. What it is now is pretty much balls. Its paying bills, or checking accts.
There’s much more value outside of the screen than inside the screen. The internet is finally becoming less an escape from reality and more just an extension of reality. This feels very anecdotal, I wonder how much of this perspective just comes with age.
To compare forced labor camps where the alternative is being murdered to people making the active choice to volunteer to serve as moderators is a comparison so lacking in perspective that I’d expect to only find it on Reddit, but I guess Lemmy has managed to foster the same kind of behavior.
Are you going to compare Reddit killing the API to the Holocaust next?
Well, I think people need to be a little patient with folks who use terms like “dumb” and “moron,” by it behooves you to maybe consider why people are bringing that up now.
It’s kind of like the R word. Mocking people for things they can’t control, especially things with a history of leading to persecution, is not OK. “Moron” unfortunately does have a very troubled history as a term so they aren’t wrong. Same reason I am trying not to use words like “crazy” when describing people’s behavior.
I know what Reddit was. I was a moderator for a sizable sub for many years lol you’re not going to get any disagreement from me there. None of what you wrote above is incompatible with what I wrote. You need to think of it in relative terms. I am not saying that Reddit is some truly authentic experience, far from it. But if you’re looking for legitimate answers to your hobby/technical/fandom questions, name a site that comes even close that 1) isn’t exponentially worse/more corporate dominated and/or 2) is actually big enough to get responses.
Discord is the next closest thing because of how servers are set up but it’s a terrible repository for information because you need to be invited (no google searching/indexing) and structurally you can’t find anything that’s more than like 5min old.
Well, yes, it was something beautiful and amazing and we all loved it very dearly, or we wouldn’t be so passionate about what management has done to it and continues to do to it.
Ever since quitting Reddit and attempting to delete all my comments, search for “topic Reddit” yields good results. I have also noticed that all those best results are between 3-11 years old.
Debatable, especially with AI spambots and (mechanical) turks. How do you know? You could be chatting with a bot or some poor, low paid schlub working in a digital sweatshop somewhere in Asia.
Is Wired owned by Advance? The answer is yes. Condé Nast is a subsidiary of Advance. Advance has a 30 percent stake in Reddit.
This is why they call it “the Internet’s Greatest Authenticity Machine” because we know there’s nothing authentic about that cesspool. There’s even less authenticity behind a biased news article framing itself as disconnected from the subject. Not once do I see mention of Wired’s relationship to Reddit, if your owner has a 30% stake you should disclose that.
Edit: even more important is that Condé Nast itself acquired Reddit in 2006, which is where Advance’s significant stake comes from. Is that supposed to be inferred or understood prior to this article? News media needs to be accountable for this kind of reporting.
I believe they call that out in the article… the parentheses look like a late addition though?
On Halloween 2006, just 16 months after they founded the company, Huffman and Ohanian sold Reddit to Condé Nast in a deal worth $10 million and agreed to stay on as leaders for at least three years. (Condé Nast, which is owned by Advance Magazine Publishers, is the publisher of WIRED). Condé viewed Reddit as a place to experiment and where the magazine company could build out new ideas online.
But by 2009, according to users, Reddit’s website was as bare-bones as before the sale. Ohanian and another person familiar with the corporate politics say the site’s growth was stymied by Condé Nast’s uncertain desires for the property and Ohanian’s self-acknowledged mismanagement. Reddit was awash in half-baked pursuits—including a short-lived iPhone app, iReddit—and a path to sustainable revenue wasn’t yet evident. After the cofounders’ three-year contracts expired on Halloween 2009, Huffman and Ohanian left for new pursuits.
Slowe and the handful of other staffers left behind at Reddit—now contending with the fallout from a global recession—stumbled through experiments with selling ads and subscriptions. Neither Condé execs nor users were pleased. But they managed to keep the website alive. Anyone could now open a subreddit, and by January 2011, Reddit had 57,000 of them. That year the company began operating as a subsidiary of Condé Nast’s parent, Advance, which let it function more like a startup. (Advance still owns a roughly 30 percent stake.) Amid the changes, Ohanian came back via a seat on Reddit’s board.
Not only a late addition, but purposefully not clarified or explicitly stated at the beginning, or even at the end, of the article. This is like fine print, tucked into the content of the article so that you have to read the entire piece to get that information. Even then, if you are in the midst of the article you might not even consider how it impacts the framing. They also use distancing language there to avoid as much as possible connecting themselves to ownership.
Like, could you imagine this article ending on a ‘dont touch this dumpster fire of a stock’ line? Conde nast would not allow that.
The article was so glowing at the end it almost swayed me until that realization
This is funny but also an excellent example. There are people who honestly believe that, and those pretending to believe that because it’s to their advantage that others be made to believe it. They are all humans behaving as humans in the context of the system they are in. Despite having the same tendencies, if these same people were living in a system that leveraged their personalities and talents to pro-social purposes we would have a very different world. The part we haven’t figured out yet is how exactly that system would work and also work despite millions to billions of different people interacting with it in more ways that can be comprehended by any individual. This is quite a group project we’re working on.
Edit: Whoops, I thought I was responding to someone in this thread. Interesting how much it connects here.
So Huffman’s strategy seems to be “Hey, I know, I’ll just follow that Musk guy’s lead; he seems to know what he’s doing!”
EDIT: Also, just because you can go public doesn’t mean you should. Why can’t tech bros just be happy with something positive they’ve created without ruining it and making people unhappy by cashing in and inevitability enshitifying it? Must be a personality-type issue. I’d rather have happy users (and I kind of doubt that Huffman was starving to begin with).
I don’t know the answer and I’m not taking a side, but considering how Reddit has never been profitable, I don’t understand how it even still exists. Where does the money come from to keep it running? This question applies to all non-profitable platforms. We know that the executives surely get their inflated paychecks, as do the employees, and the servers keep running (often better than sustainable alternatives), yet the company never makes a profit… How does that work?
Given that it’s obviously not sustainable, I can understand why “just be happy with that they’ve created” isn’t an option, but that’s the only thing I understand… Everything else is a complete mystery to me.
A business can be lucrative without being profitable. Profitable means the business itself is making a profit; that is, expanding its revenue. Reddit doesn’t need to do that in order to make everyone who works there money. They just need to keep the servers open and do a little maintenance. Reddit probably could be profitable as a business if it weren’t so lucrative for its CEOs, who presumably eat all the profits.
I agree, though. Profit and growth are poor measures of a business doing what it should be doing, which is providing a valuable product to consumers. Honestly, these days they’re probably a measure that a company has stopped providing value.
But, correct me if I’m wrong, the whole thing is operating at a loss. It’s spending more money than it receives, including advertising and all. That doesn’t add up.
You are not logged in. However you can subscribe from another Fediverse account, for example Lemmy or Mastodon. To do this, paste the following into the search field of your instance: !technology@beehaw.org
A nice place to discuss rumors, happenings, innovations, and challenges in the technology sphere. We also welcome discussions on the intersections of technology and society. If it’s technological news or discussion of technology, it probably belongs here.
Remember the overriding ethos on Beehaw: Be(e) Nice. Each user you encounter here is a person, and should be treated with kindness (even if they’re wrong, or use a Linux distro you don’t like). Personal attacks will not be tolerated.
If you are looking to talk to actual people and hear actual opinions, the simple fact is Reddit is the best major site for it. There is nothing like it, in particular smaller hobby/technical/interest communities. And I say this as somebody who has a comment history full of “fuck Reddit.“ There is a reason Google searches are only useful if you put “Reddit“ at the end now. If you find the appropriate Reddit thread you are generally getting some of the best advice or info out there, especially with technical issues. For some hobbies/interests, the relevant sub is the only major community with any regular activity.
Is there astroturfing? Yes. Are there tons of corporate interests manipulating it? Of course. But compared to Facebook, Twitter, etc. it may as well will be public access to their corporate owned cable.
Obligatory “Fuck Reddit.” And I mean it lol. But the above is still true.
Reddit was great in some ways. It’s been on the decline for a while and I expect the IPO can only accelerate that. Unless we’re all very lucky it’s not going to explode in flames and crash into the ditch. It will just shamble on, gradually disillusioning all the people who still cling to it long after it’s lost its soul.
Same as the rest of the corporate internet and digital services. I wonder whether people will ever lose patience with it and abandon these things.
There will always be new, perhaps younger, users who come through who don’t know what it was like before. And of course, there will always be more veteran users who perhaps don’t care. I care that reddit is going to shit, but I’m still on it (less than pre-APIgate though). On the other hand, my brother who’s been on reddit almost as long as me, doesn’t care. As long as gets his memes or whatever else he uses reddit for, he’ll be there. He barely knew about that protests last summer.
It seems that the only way a social media actually collapses is when the company itself pulls the plug. Twitter has been circling the drain since Elon bought it, but it’s still one of the main nodes of information from companies, governments, journalists, and just regular people. It’s still used by millions of people daily, even if it’s also used by millions of bots, too. Google+ was in a sad state for a bit, but there were still users. It only died when Google finally shut it down. I think Vine was in a similar situation back in the day.
That is what was so upsetting about last summer. I had a lot invested in Reddit. Emotionally, mentall, hell just time-wise. After the “landed gentry“ comment, I just couldn’t deal with it anymore. It was so disrespectful and completely missed the mark for why most moderators do what they do. Like I get it, many people dog moderators and think they’re just “power tripping jannies.” But fact of the matter is most moderators are perfectly fine people just volunteering their time to foster a community they care about.
So for the CEO of a company whose entire existence is owed to the labor of unpaid users that they never talk to or interact with in any meaningful way outside of a handful of mod teams to come out and call us “entitled” and other adjectives because we are protesting a terrible decision and advocating for people with disabilities…well, many of us left lol
This is the Internet in general, i think… when you compare how many sites i used a decade ago to now, its cvastly fewer. five or so years ago, that would have probably been due to things consolidating… But now it is just because almost everything online is relatively valueless. it is a soulless wasteland with little to offer. Sure, ym digitital usage is enormous, but i engaged somewhat reguarly on internet sites. Now its nothing to me. Hell, I dont even really keep up on Lemmy anymore. Smaller use internet was thrilling. What it is now is pretty much balls. Its paying bills, or checking accts.
There’s much more value outside of the screen than inside the screen. The internet is finally becoming less an escape from reality and more just an extension of reality. This feels very anecdotal, I wonder how much of this perspective just comes with age.
Reddit has become useful to see what power wants.
And reddit is a digital labor camp. The head make hundreds of millions a year. The mods work for free.
To compare forced labor camps where the alternative is being murdered to people making the active choice to volunteer to serve as moderators is a comparison so lacking in perspective that I’d expect to only find it on Reddit, but I guess Lemmy has managed to foster the same kind of behavior.
Are you going to compare Reddit killing the API to the Holocaust next?
You had a point until the response became twice as long and disproportionate to the original comment. He didn’t even say “forced.”
I agree the term is overly hyperbolic, but let’s maybe dial it back dude
Forced is part of what a “labor camp” is.
Labor camp is not a place you send your kids in the summer.
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Well, I think people need to be a little patient with folks who use terms like “dumb” and “moron,” by it behooves you to maybe consider why people are bringing that up now.
It’s kind of like the R word. Mocking people for things they can’t control, especially things with a history of leading to persecution, is not OK. “Moron” unfortunately does have a very troubled history as a term so they aren’t wrong. Same reason I am trying not to use words like “crazy” when describing people’s behavior.
deleted by creator
I know what Reddit was. I was a moderator for a sizable sub for many years lol you’re not going to get any disagreement from me there. None of what you wrote above is incompatible with what I wrote. You need to think of it in relative terms. I am not saying that Reddit is some truly authentic experience, far from it. But if you’re looking for legitimate answers to your hobby/technical/fandom questions, name a site that comes even close that 1) isn’t exponentially worse/more corporate dominated and/or 2) is actually big enough to get responses.
Discord is the next closest thing because of how servers are set up but it’s a terrible repository for information because you need to be invited (no google searching/indexing) and structurally you can’t find anything that’s more than like 5min old.
Well, yes, it was something beautiful and amazing and we all loved it very dearly, or we wouldn’t be so passionate about what management has done to it and continues to do to it.
Ever since quitting Reddit and attempting to delete all my comments, search for “topic Reddit” yields good results. I have also noticed that all those best results are between 3-11 years old.
And that’s becoming it’s own problem with search, especially with technical questions. The good answer is also old and out of date.
Debatable, especially with AI spambots and (mechanical) turks. How do you know? You could be chatting with a bot or some poor, low paid schlub working in a digital sweatshop somewhere in Asia.
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Its going to be a bloodbath.
Long dated puts will be sooooo expensive
No
Is Wired owned by Advance? The answer is yes. Condé Nast is a subsidiary of Advance. Advance has a 30 percent stake in Reddit.
This is why they call it “the Internet’s Greatest Authenticity Machine” because we know there’s nothing authentic about that cesspool. There’s even less authenticity behind a biased news article framing itself as disconnected from the subject. Not once do I see mention of Wired’s relationship to Reddit, if your owner has a 30% stake you should disclose that.
Edit: even more important is that Condé Nast itself acquired Reddit in 2006, which is where Advance’s significant stake comes from. Is that supposed to be inferred or understood prior to this article? News media needs to be accountable for this kind of reporting.
I believe they call that out in the article… the parentheses look like a late addition though?
Not only a late addition, but purposefully not clarified or explicitly stated at the beginning, or even at the end, of the article. This is like fine print, tucked into the content of the article so that you have to read the entire piece to get that information. Even then, if you are in the midst of the article you might not even consider how it impacts the framing. They also use distancing language there to avoid as much as possible connecting themselves to ownership.
Like, could you imagine this article ending on a ‘dont touch this dumpster fire of a stock’ line? Conde nast would not allow that.
The article was so glowing at the end it almost swayed me until that realization
Quick, how do we short it?
Narrator: It did not.
Reddit didn’t survive its slow death many years ago. The rotting corpse it left behind is just becoming a bigger problem.
Yep!
But maybe an injection of speculative casual short term investors is exactly what it needs to get back on it’s feet. /s
This is funny but also an excellent example. There are people who honestly believe that, and those pretending to believe that because it’s to their advantage that others be made to believe it. They are all humans behaving as humans in the context of the system they are in. Despite having the same tendencies, if these same people were living in a system that leveraged their personalities and talents to pro-social purposes we would have a very different world. The part we haven’t figured out yet is how exactly that system would work and also work despite millions to billions of different people interacting with it in more ways that can be comprehended by any individual. This is quite a group project we’re working on.
Edit: Whoops, I thought I was responding to someone in this thread. Interesting how much it connects here.
Well I thought your comment was insightful and relevant here, anyway. Thanks!
deleted by creator
will get shorted to oblivion imo, reddit has never been profitable.
So Huffman’s strategy seems to be “Hey, I know, I’ll just follow that Musk guy’s lead; he seems to know what he’s doing!”
EDIT: Also, just because you can go public doesn’t mean you should. Why can’t tech bros just be happy with something positive they’ve created without ruining it and making people unhappy by cashing in and inevitability enshitifying it? Must be a personality-type issue. I’d rather have happy users (and I kind of doubt that Huffman was starving to begin with).
I don’t know the answer and I’m not taking a side, but considering how Reddit has never been profitable, I don’t understand how it even still exists. Where does the money come from to keep it running? This question applies to all non-profitable platforms. We know that the executives surely get their inflated paychecks, as do the employees, and the servers keep running (often better than sustainable alternatives), yet the company never makes a profit… How does that work?
Given that it’s obviously not sustainable, I can understand why “just be happy with that they’ve created” isn’t an option, but that’s the only thing I understand… Everything else is a complete mystery to me.
I use Discord a lot and I think about this often.
A business can be lucrative without being profitable. Profitable means the business itself is making a profit; that is, expanding its revenue. Reddit doesn’t need to do that in order to make everyone who works there money. They just need to keep the servers open and do a little maintenance. Reddit probably could be profitable as a business if it weren’t so lucrative for its CEOs, who presumably eat all the profits.
I agree, though. Profit and growth are poor measures of a business doing what it should be doing, which is providing a valuable product to consumers. Honestly, these days they’re probably a measure that a company has stopped providing value.
The number one thing I don’t understand is, where does the money come from?
I’d imagine mostly advertising and premium accounts. I’d be surprised if there weren’t some shady deals going on for increased exposure too.
But, correct me if I’m wrong, the whole thing is operating at a loss. It’s spending more money than it receives, including advertising and all. That doesn’t add up.
Only if you count CEO pay.
Companies don’t even need to be solvent to make their C-levels money.
You’re seriously avoiding the question.
Haha, I love your wording. This is awesome. And I 100% agree. These people do not know the meaning of the word “enough.”
I sure hope not. I cannot wait for the day Reddit is crumbling in its own ashes with piece-of-shit Huffman burning in the center.
https://archive.ph/urG1R
Thanks!👍
Shake the 8 ball : Signs point to no…
Thanks, I needed a laugh.