The president’s shedding key constituencies. If morality won’t move him to end his support of this war, will self-interest?
On the issue of Gaza, Biden is dramatically out of touch with the voters he needs to win re-election. If he will not be moved by morality to stop his support of this war, he should be moved by vulgar self-interest. Gaza is not a distant foreign conflict: it is an urgent moral emergency for large swaths of voters. Biden will lose those voters – and may indeed lose the election – if he does not cease his support of these atrocities.
Biden has that rare opportunity in politics: to help the country, and himself, by doing the right thing. But he must do so now. Both the Palestinian people and his own election prospects are running out of time.
Doubt. Eventually people will realize that for as bad as Biden is with regards to Gaza, he’s doing a lot right domestically, and the other guy would be much, much, MUCH worse
The way voters protest this sort of issue doesn’t follow logic or reason. People will happily not vote in protest, even if it means somebody far worse will win because of their actions. Cutting off their nose to spite their face.
I think the news needs to shame these kind of voters, instead of pushing this narrative that it’s Biden’s fault. Biden’s views are his own, and yeah, the news should try to highlight and change them. But, voter patterns of using “uncontested” or third-party candidates to sabotage the main electees is actively destroying Democrats’ chances of winning elections.
100% agree these people need to be shamed. And it needs to happen as often as it can’t until it’s understood what is at stake.
Action isn’t initiated by the lack of action. The mere thought that by doing nothing- something will happen is so incredibly ignorant… I can barely hold on to the concept of it let along try and sympathize with those that subscribe to it.
I’m sorry, your take is that we need to shame people for …standing against a genocide? for deciding that supporting the deaths of an entire culture of people is the line too far for their conscience to support? You think that deserves to be attacked and shamed?
The U.S. has no obligation to participate in genocide, and can start withholding aid at any time. If Democrat leadership has decided it’s more important to exterminate Palestine than prevent a Trump election, that’s going to remain on the Democrats.
Biden is anti Hamas, trump is anti Palestine there is a huge fucking difference. Biden is still trying to get aid to the people of Gaza, trump will not and will likely sent troops to assist in the genocide.
instead of pushing this narrative that it’s Biden’s fault
But… it is his fault? His job is to represent his constituents, which he’s not doing. He’s literally refusing to do his job as an elected representative. That you think it’s the electorate’s job to align with a President (and thus, a failing on their part not to) is antithetical to Democracy.
Here’s an interesting hypothetical for you:
How close would Biden need to be to Trump, before you wouldn’t vote for him? What issues would he need to change his stance on? I’m not saying he’s close, I’m interested to know which of your personal values are red-lines?
If the answer is, “nothing, so long as he is at all better than Trump”, then we’re never going to see eye-to-eye, because to me at that point your rhetoric is incapable of combating our current slide towards fascism (just as I believe Biden is). If there are red-lines for you, then ask yourself why your personal red-lines are more important or valid than the people who you’re shaming for saying he’s crossed theirs.
Sadly, I suspect that the answer for many Democrats is the same as it is for Republicans; they’ll only stand up to the party once they are personally harmed by the party’s policies.
You have to change the FPTP system first. It’s mathematically impossible to have a stable third-party system without changing the mechanics of how it works.
How do you change that system? Are there any particular groups you can think of who are actively working against those changes?
You’re not suggesting we vote for people who are opposed to and working against non-FPTP systems, as a vehicle to enact a non-FPTP system, right? Cause that would be pretty silly. :P
Until we get rid of FPTP voting nationally, 3rd parties cannot win and can only spoil. The best we can hope for is a third party is popular enough that they displace another party. Which would be a years to decades long change as local, state and national representatives get replaced slowly.
More likely what would happen is what the GOP did to the 2 contenders: the Tea Party and Insurrection Party. The GOP just absorbed and changed to meet them.
You are not logged in. However you can subscribe from another Fediverse account, for example Lemmy or Mastodon. To do this, paste the following into the search field of your instance: !politics@beehaw.org
In-depth political discussion from around the world; if it’s a political happening, you can post it here.
Guidelines for submissions:
Where possible, post the original source of information.
If there is a paywall, you can use alternative sources or provide an archive.today, 12ft.io, etc. link in the body.
Do not editorialize titles. Preserve the original title when possible; edits for clarity are fine.
Do not post ragebait or shock stories. These will be removed.
Do not post tabloid or blogspam stories. These will be removed.
Social media should be a source of last resort.
These guidelines will be enforced on a know-it-when-I-see-it basis.
Doubt. Eventually people will realize that for as bad as Biden is with regards to Gaza, he’s doing a lot right domestically, and the other guy would be much, much, MUCH worse
The way voters protest this sort of issue doesn’t follow logic or reason. People will happily not vote in protest, even if it means somebody far worse will win because of their actions. Cutting off their nose to spite their face.
I think the news needs to shame these kind of voters, instead of pushing this narrative that it’s Biden’s fault. Biden’s views are his own, and yeah, the news should try to highlight and change them. But, voter patterns of using “uncontested” or third-party candidates to sabotage the main electees is actively destroying Democrats’ chances of winning elections.
100% agree these people need to be shamed. And it needs to happen as often as it can’t until it’s understood what is at stake.
Action isn’t initiated by the lack of action. The mere thought that by doing nothing- something will happen is so incredibly ignorant… I can barely hold on to the concept of it let along try and sympathize with those that subscribe to it.
I’m sorry, your take is that we need to shame people for …standing against a genocide? for deciding that supporting the deaths of an entire culture of people is the line too far for their conscience to support? You think that deserves to be attacked and shamed?
The U.S. has no obligation to participate in genocide, and can start withholding aid at any time. If Democrat leadership has decided it’s more important to exterminate Palestine than prevent a Trump election, that’s going to remain on the Democrats.
Allowing Trump to win by not voting is not “standing against genocide”. It’s virtue signaling which will harm the very people you aim to protect.
deleted by creator
Biden is anti Hamas, trump is anti Palestine there is a huge fucking difference. Biden is still trying to get aid to the people of Gaza, trump will not and will likely sent troops to assist in the genocide.
Funny, Biden’s bombs have been killing Palestinian babies quite efficiently.
Holding democracy ransom because one feels the need to virtue signal about something they more than likely didn’t care about a year ago?
Yeah. Shame.
What genocide was occurring one year ago?
But… it is his fault? His job is to represent his constituents, which he’s not doing. He’s literally refusing to do his job as an elected representative. That you think it’s the electorate’s job to align with a President (and thus, a failing on their part not to) is antithetical to Democracy.
Here’s an interesting hypothetical for you:
How close would Biden need to be to Trump, before you wouldn’t vote for him? What issues would he need to change his stance on? I’m not saying he’s close, I’m interested to know which of your personal values are red-lines?
If the answer is, “nothing, so long as he is at all better than Trump”, then we’re never going to see eye-to-eye, because to me at that point your rhetoric is incapable of combating our current slide towards fascism (just as I believe Biden is). If there are red-lines for you, then ask yourself why your personal red-lines are more important or valid than the people who you’re shaming for saying he’s crossed theirs.
Sadly, I suspect that the answer for many Democrats is the same as it is for Republicans; they’ll only stand up to the party once they are personally harmed by the party’s policies.
We should just tell him we will vote for him no matter what.
That’s surely how you influence the geriatric corporate owned politicians who allegedly “represent” us.
Personally, I really, really, really wish we had a viable third party candidate. I don’t want either of these fucks in office.
You have to change the FPTP system first. It’s mathematically impossible to have a stable third-party system without changing the mechanics of how it works.
How do you change that system? Are there any particular groups you can think of who are actively working against those changes?
You’re not suggesting we vote for people who are opposed to and working against non-FPTP systems, as a vehicle to enact a non-FPTP system, right? Cause that would be pretty silly. :P
Until we get rid of FPTP voting nationally, 3rd parties cannot win and can only spoil. The best we can hope for is a third party is popular enough that they displace another party. Which would be a years to decades long change as local, state and national representatives get replaced slowly.
More likely what would happen is what the GOP did to the 2 contenders: the Tea Party and Insurrection Party. The GOP just absorbed and changed to meet them.