It wouldn’t be a collapse. It would be a transformation into the most heavily armed fascist dictatorship in the history of the world. If we’re lucky, it stays isolationist, but it likely won’t.
It’s already in decay. A fascist turn would just destabilize society so much that the country breaks up into independent warring state-regions in a civil war. The US will probably nuke itself.
Nah, and I say this as an ansoc who would love for the US to break up, but there’s just no appetite for that at any scale large enough to actually cause this.
Even at the time of the Civil War, it was only when state governments decided to secede that things kicked off, and no states now- no matter how “blue” they are- are going to try that. It would be up to individuals, and there’s just no organizational capability for that at the scale needed to force a civil war. The closest we might ever get is a bunch of individual attacks or small-scale violent mobs.
There is nobody in the world that would be able to contain it. Nobody is even close to having the conventional power projection capabilities required for this. Even if “only” democracy ends in America and a dictatorship takes its place, the rest of the world is going to suffer horribly. In the short run alone, all sorts of autocratic regimes (Russia, China, Iran, North Korea, plus a couple others in South America and Africa) that were primarily or entirely limited by America’s global military presence keeping a lid on them would immediately cease the opportunity to turn entire regions of this planet into warzones. That alone is horrific.
A complete breakup of America on the other hand (which could happen if a dictatorship failed to establish itself) could be a potential doomsday event, I agree with you. The economic shocks caused by this alone would send the world into chaos and that’s not even taking the danger of nuclear war (civil and global) into account.
Even if we get an isolationist Trump administration controlled by the Kremlin, this would also be catastrophic, for numerous reasons, from weakening NATO to stalling and reverting desperately needed action on climate change. Hell, imagine another global pandemic, once again without anyone at the helm. Love or hate the US, it was clear that the lack of American leadership during COVID-19 was the primary factor responsible for the poor global response to it.
Finally, I see comment from someone who clearly understands this. Somehow, many people perceive such a threat very non-seriously, as if they think it will never happen, or that someone will come and prevent it from happening.
I’m guessing (hoping) you’re joking here and having a laugh at us all taking you too seriously. But I’ve seen enough of lemmy to doubt that.
If your accelerationist ideology is unironically promoting nuclear holocaust as its self-evidently ideal endgame, you’re long overdue for your “are we the baddies” moment. Maybe (definitely) stay off social media for a bit as you re-examine how you got here and who’s lied to you along the way.
It wouldn’t solve the world’s problems. It would simply make China the preeminent superpower, and cause a horrific environmental (and humanitarian) disaster.
You can replace US empire with human civilization and the same would be true. American Exceptionalism is just as bad in a negative way as it is when its positive exceptionalism.
As much as the US is an imperialist colonial state, they also keep the other ones (Russia, China) in check. Both of them were subsumed by state-capitalism, and became just as expansionist and xenophobic as the US is. I don’t want any of them around, but all 3 breaking up ain’t in the cards right now, and unchecked imperialism is exactly what made the US so dangerous to the “margins of the world” for so long.
I frankly haven’t believed in my own government since 9/11. This is not about conspiracy theories; it’s about the fact that I could drive into Canada in 2000 with a driver license. We obviously are the most imperial country in history (the irony is not lost on me, given how this all started).
But we started doing things like creating the Department of Homeland Security when the DoD covered that alongside ICE. I don’t understand what it’s like to think those were insufficient.
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Imagine not being excited for the collapse of the US government.
It wouldn’t be a collapse. It would be a transformation into the most heavily armed fascist dictatorship in the history of the world. If we’re lucky, it stays isolationist, but it likely won’t.
It’s already in decay. A fascist turn would just destabilize society so much that the country breaks up into independent warring state-regions in a civil war. The US will probably nuke itself.
People getting nuked is the scenario you’re describing as weird to not be excited for.
Nah, and I say this as an ansoc who would love for the US to break up, but there’s just no appetite for that at any scale large enough to actually cause this.
Even at the time of the Civil War, it was only when state governments decided to secede that things kicked off, and no states now- no matter how “blue” they are- are going to try that. It would be up to individuals, and there’s just no organizational capability for that at the scale needed to force a civil war. The closest we might ever get is a bunch of individual attacks or small-scale violent mobs.
That’s some high risk wishful thinking. A destabilized US needs to be contained very quickly or it could take the entire planet with it.
There is nobody in the world that would be able to contain it. Nobody is even close to having the conventional power projection capabilities required for this. Even if “only” democracy ends in America and a dictatorship takes its place, the rest of the world is going to suffer horribly. In the short run alone, all sorts of autocratic regimes (Russia, China, Iran, North Korea, plus a couple others in South America and Africa) that were primarily or entirely limited by America’s global military presence keeping a lid on them would immediately cease the opportunity to turn entire regions of this planet into warzones. That alone is horrific.
A complete breakup of America on the other hand (which could happen if a dictatorship failed to establish itself) could be a potential doomsday event, I agree with you. The economic shocks caused by this alone would send the world into chaos and that’s not even taking the danger of nuclear war (civil and global) into account.
Even if we get an isolationist Trump administration controlled by the Kremlin, this would also be catastrophic, for numerous reasons, from weakening NATO to stalling and reverting desperately needed action on climate change. Hell, imagine another global pandemic, once again without anyone at the helm. Love or hate the US, it was clear that the lack of American leadership during COVID-19 was the primary factor responsible for the poor global response to it.
Finally, I see comment from someone who clearly understands this. Somehow, many people perceive such a threat very non-seriously, as if they think it will never happen, or that someone will come and prevent it from happening.
I’m guessing (hoping) you’re joking here and having a laugh at us all taking you too seriously. But I’ve seen enough of lemmy to doubt that.
If your accelerationist ideology is unironically promoting nuclear holocaust as its self-evidently ideal endgame, you’re long overdue for your “are we the baddies” moment. Maybe (definitely) stay off social media for a bit as you re-examine how you got here and who’s lied to you along the way.
Objectively speaking, the US nuking itself would solve a lot of the world’s problems.
Mostly I’m just being flippant as a way to cope with a very real fear that I am going to die.
It wouldn’t solve the world’s problems. It would simply make China the preeminent superpower, and cause a horrific environmental (and humanitarian) disaster.
The US empire is an ongoing environmental and humanitarian disaster.
You can replace US empire with human civilization and the same would be true. American Exceptionalism is just as bad in a negative way as it is when its positive exceptionalism.
Imagine opening your mouth and a turd doesn’t flop out. You might have to try really hard.
You smelt it. You dealt it.
Those at the margins tend to suffer further when governments collapse.
Those at the margins of the world will be saved from the long arm of the United States government.
It’ll be pretty bad for US Americans though.
As much as the US is an imperialist colonial state, they also keep the other ones (Russia, China) in check. Both of them were subsumed by state-capitalism, and became just as expansionist and xenophobic as the US is. I don’t want any of them around, but all 3 breaking up ain’t in the cards right now, and unchecked imperialism is exactly what made the US so dangerous to the “margins of the world” for so long.
I frankly haven’t believed in my own government since 9/11. This is not about conspiracy theories; it’s about the fact that I could drive into Canada in 2000 with a driver license. We obviously are the most imperial country in history (the irony is not lost on me, given how this all started).
But we started doing things like creating the Department of Homeland Security when the DoD covered that alongside ICE. I don’t understand what it’s like to think those were insufficient.
Well Bush did declare a war on Terra.