It wouldn’t be a collapse. It would be a transformation into the most heavily armed fascist dictatorship in the history of the world. If we’re lucky, it stays isolationist, but it likely won’t.
It’s already in decay. A fascist turn would just destabilize society so much that the country breaks up into independent warring state-regions in a civil war. The US will probably nuke itself.
There is nobody in the world that would be able to contain it. Nobody is even close to having the conventional power projection capabilities required for this. Even if “only” democracy ends in America and a dictatorship takes its place, the rest of the world is going to suffer horribly. In the short run alone, all sorts of autocratic regimes (Russia, China, Iran, North Korea, plus a couple others in South America and Africa) that were primarily or entirely limited by America’s global military presence keeping a lid on them would immediately cease the opportunity to turn entire regions of this planet into warzones. That alone is horrific.
A complete breakup of America on the other hand (which could happen if a dictatorship failed to establish itself) could be a potential doomsday event, I agree with you. The economic shocks caused by this alone would send the world into chaos and that’s not even taking the danger of nuclear war (civil and global) into account.
Even if we get an isolationist Trump administration controlled by the Kremlin, this would also be catastrophic, for numerous reasons, from weakening NATO to stalling and reverting desperately needed action on climate change. Hell, imagine another global pandemic, once again without anyone at the helm. Love or hate the US, it was clear that the lack of American leadership during COVID-19 was the primary factor responsible for the poor global response to it.
Finally, I see comment from someone who clearly understands this. Somehow, many people perceive such a threat very non-seriously, as if they think it will never happen, or that someone will come and prevent it from happening.
I’m guessing (hoping) you’re joking here and having a laugh at us all taking you too seriously. But I’ve seen enough of lemmy to doubt that.
If your accelerationist ideology is unironically promoting nuclear holocaust as its self-evidently ideal endgame, you’re long overdue for your “are we the baddies” moment. Maybe (definitely) stay off social media for a bit as you re-examine how you got here and who’s lied to you along the way.
It wouldn’t solve the world’s problems. It would simply make China the preeminent superpower, and cause a horrific environmental (and humanitarian) disaster.
You can replace US empire with human civilization and the same would be true. American Exceptionalism is just as bad in a negative way as it is when its positive exceptionalism.
Nah, and I say this as an ansoc who would love for the US to break up, but there’s just no appetite for that at any scale large enough to actually cause this.
Even at the time of the Civil War, it was only when state governments decided to secede that things kicked off, and no states now- no matter how “blue” they are- are going to try that. It would be up to individuals, and there’s just no organizational capability for that at the scale needed to force a civil war. The closest we might ever get is a bunch of individual attacks or small-scale violent mobs.
As much as the US is an imperialist colonial state, they also keep the other ones (Russia, China) in check. Both of them were subsumed by state-capitalism, and became just as expansionist and xenophobic as the US is. I don’t want any of them around, but all 3 breaking up ain’t in the cards right now, and unchecked imperialism is exactly what made the US so dangerous to the “margins of the world” for so long.
I frankly haven’t believed in my own government since 9/11. This is not about conspiracy theories; it’s about the fact that I could drive into Canada in 2000 with a driver license. We obviously are the most imperial country in history (the irony is not lost on me, given how this all started).
But we started doing things like creating the Department of Homeland Security when the DoD covered that alongside ICE. I don’t understand what it’s like to think those were insufficient.
Honestly the more they push stolen election and show no results the less effective it will be in future elections. They’re drastically losing their grip on power
The sad thing is we lose, not them. We have some 35% of the country convinced that elections don’t matter. That’s tangentially a democracy problem, but good luck having a meaningful discussion about the the difference between a democracy and a republic.
I would love to hear how they plan to resolve what feels like an inevitable unrest that will one day erupt.
I’m obviously not an expert on the subject, but the rhetoric has been so much more extreme. I hope nothing bad happens, but I have no idea how to get people to understand that an authoritarian government is bad. Do people even understand what that means? Or how living in an authoritarian state would affect their lives?
No, they don’t. And they don’t want to understand. Just look at how indifferent many are about what is happening on the other side of the planet. If offered an exclusive choice between a 50% reduction in gasoline prices and the complete cessation of all authoritarian and totalitarian regimes without prolonged wars and massive devastation, many would choose the first option.
Instead of the cessation of authoritarian regimes, you can point to solving any other global issue like climate change - and they would still choose the first option.
This utter indifference, mixed with all sorts of absurd destructive beliefs such as conspiracy theories or racial superiority, provides very fertile ground for the establishment of authoritarianism.
You are not logged in. However you can subscribe from another Fediverse account, for example Lemmy or Mastodon. To do this, paste the following into the search field of your instance: !politics@beehaw.org
In-depth political discussion from around the world; if it’s a political happening, you can post it here.
Guidelines for submissions:
Where possible, post the original source of information.
If there is a paywall, you can use alternative sources or provide an archive.today, 12ft.io, etc. link in the body.
Do not editorialize titles. Preserve the original title when possible; edits for clarity are fine.
Do not post ragebait or shock stories. These will be removed.
Do not post tabloid or blogspam stories. These will be removed.
Social media should be a source of last resort.
These guidelines will be enforced on a know-it-when-I-see-it basis.
If I had any hair I’d be tearing it out because this has been readily apparent this was going to be the plan going forward since January 7th, 2021.
I’m so tired of it being screamed from the rooftops and everyday it feels like the media forgot entirely about all of it.
I mean, definitely keep it in the public eye. Just… also do things to prevent it from being effective.
We didn’t forget about it; we were silenced.
Imagine not being excited for the collapse of the US government.
It wouldn’t be a collapse. It would be a transformation into the most heavily armed fascist dictatorship in the history of the world. If we’re lucky, it stays isolationist, but it likely won’t.
It’s already in decay. A fascist turn would just destabilize society so much that the country breaks up into independent warring state-regions in a civil war. The US will probably nuke itself.
That’s some high risk wishful thinking. A destabilized US needs to be contained very quickly or it could take the entire planet with it.
There is nobody in the world that would be able to contain it. Nobody is even close to having the conventional power projection capabilities required for this. Even if “only” democracy ends in America and a dictatorship takes its place, the rest of the world is going to suffer horribly. In the short run alone, all sorts of autocratic regimes (Russia, China, Iran, North Korea, plus a couple others in South America and Africa) that were primarily or entirely limited by America’s global military presence keeping a lid on them would immediately cease the opportunity to turn entire regions of this planet into warzones. That alone is horrific.
A complete breakup of America on the other hand (which could happen if a dictatorship failed to establish itself) could be a potential doomsday event, I agree with you. The economic shocks caused by this alone would send the world into chaos and that’s not even taking the danger of nuclear war (civil and global) into account.
Even if we get an isolationist Trump administration controlled by the Kremlin, this would also be catastrophic, for numerous reasons, from weakening NATO to stalling and reverting desperately needed action on climate change. Hell, imagine another global pandemic, once again without anyone at the helm. Love or hate the US, it was clear that the lack of American leadership during COVID-19 was the primary factor responsible for the poor global response to it.
Finally, I see comment from someone who clearly understands this. Somehow, many people perceive such a threat very non-seriously, as if they think it will never happen, or that someone will come and prevent it from happening.
People getting nuked is the scenario you’re describing as weird to not be excited for.
I’m guessing (hoping) you’re joking here and having a laugh at us all taking you too seriously. But I’ve seen enough of lemmy to doubt that.
If your accelerationist ideology is unironically promoting nuclear holocaust as its self-evidently ideal endgame, you’re long overdue for your “are we the baddies” moment. Maybe (definitely) stay off social media for a bit as you re-examine how you got here and who’s lied to you along the way.
Objectively speaking, the US nuking itself would solve a lot of the world’s problems.
Mostly I’m just being flippant as a way to cope with a very real fear that I am going to die.
It wouldn’t solve the world’s problems. It would simply make China the preeminent superpower, and cause a horrific environmental (and humanitarian) disaster.
The US empire is an ongoing environmental and humanitarian disaster.
You can replace US empire with human civilization and the same would be true. American Exceptionalism is just as bad in a negative way as it is when its positive exceptionalism.
Nah, and I say this as an ansoc who would love for the US to break up, but there’s just no appetite for that at any scale large enough to actually cause this.
Even at the time of the Civil War, it was only when state governments decided to secede that things kicked off, and no states now- no matter how “blue” they are- are going to try that. It would be up to individuals, and there’s just no organizational capability for that at the scale needed to force a civil war. The closest we might ever get is a bunch of individual attacks or small-scale violent mobs.
Imagine opening your mouth and a turd doesn’t flop out. You might have to try really hard.
You smelt it. You dealt it.
Those at the margins tend to suffer further when governments collapse.
Those at the margins of the world will be saved from the long arm of the United States government.
It’ll be pretty bad for US Americans though.
As much as the US is an imperialist colonial state, they also keep the other ones (Russia, China) in check. Both of them were subsumed by state-capitalism, and became just as expansionist and xenophobic as the US is. I don’t want any of them around, but all 3 breaking up ain’t in the cards right now, and unchecked imperialism is exactly what made the US so dangerous to the “margins of the world” for so long.
I frankly haven’t believed in my own government since 9/11. This is not about conspiracy theories; it’s about the fact that I could drive into Canada in 2000 with a driver license. We obviously are the most imperial country in history (the irony is not lost on me, given how this all started).
But we started doing things like creating the Department of Homeland Security when the DoD covered that alongside ICE. I don’t understand what it’s like to think those were insufficient.
Well Bush did declare a war on Terra.
Meanwhile the pope is preparing to come out as Catholic
For the thousands (millions?) of us who have known this since 2015, are we officially strategists?
Duh
Hopefully they have known about this for some time and are preparing
I’m sure that they have just as I’m sure that they aren’t.
Honestly the more they push stolen election and show no results the less effective it will be in future elections. They’re drastically losing their grip on power
The sad thing is we lose, not them. We have some 35% of the country convinced that elections don’t matter. That’s tangentially a democracy problem, but good luck having a meaningful discussion about the the difference between a democracy and a republic.
I would love to hear how they plan to resolve what feels like an inevitable unrest that will one day erupt.
I’m obviously not an expert on the subject, but the rhetoric has been so much more extreme. I hope nothing bad happens, but I have no idea how to get people to understand that an authoritarian government is bad. Do people even understand what that means? Or how living in an authoritarian state would affect their lives?
No, they don’t. And they don’t want to understand. Just look at how indifferent many are about what is happening on the other side of the planet. If offered an exclusive choice between a 50% reduction in gasoline prices and the complete cessation of all authoritarian and totalitarian regimes without prolonged wars and massive devastation, many would choose the first option. Instead of the cessation of authoritarian regimes, you can point to solving any other global issue like climate change - and they would still choose the first option. This utter indifference, mixed with all sorts of absurd destructive beliefs such as conspiracy theories or racial superiority, provides very fertile ground for the establishment of authoritarianism.
Nobody voting for face-eating leopards expects to have THEIR face eaten.