I looked up miter joint and butt joint and I’m beginning to understand what you wanted to say.
Yes, maybe.
It doesn’t hurt to know the basic commands to insert, copy, paste with vim. But with bim, handling the tool always consumed a too big percentage of my attention in respect to doing the task at hand. I still use it for small file changes.
My comment really applies more to vi than vim but everyone’s using them interchangeably nowadays. When implementing systems where internet connection or excess install size aren’t possible or recommended, you gotta be able to work with the tools at hand.
Of course, the comparison is custom cabinetry to ikea. Your local meth head needs to understand how to use hand tools because he or she may need to use them for myriad reasons ranging from “I don’t have the power version of this” to “it’s faster” to “the cut is cleaner” to “they pay me more to use this”. The person designing hudfł needs to be concerned first and foremost with how to shave a sixteenth off every panel so his accounting department doesn’t have to pay to reforest an extra hundred acres this year.
Perhaps someone working entirely in programming has good reason to not know vim, but I still cling to the antiquated notion that the person designing furniture out of manufactured materials ought to be able to build a box you’d feel comfortable with company seeing.
If an IDE doesn’t have vi key bindings it isn’t going to be used by me. That’s what finally get me to change from terminal only dev to vscode. Until I found the vi editing extension the IDE wasn’t of interest.
Yes, vi is just that good.
I hear emacs bindings are also great, but I just know how to save and exit from emacs.
I use doom emacs and have to say, it takes everything that I like about vim and adds to emacs, plus a lot of useful features that i would have to install myself otherwise that can be enable by just uncommenting a feel lines in the config file.
It’s can feel a bit bloated at first but allows me to have the perfect IDE (for me at least) in a matter of minutes.
And the best of all is that I don’t need to use the emacs keybinds if I don’t wanna (and I don’t).
One of the interesting aspects of humanity is how much people like given text editing methods. There’s a handful of approaches and after learning one or two, people really figure out what works for them.
I am more than happy to say I like vim, but in the end you should use what you like best. Just done be surprised when I can write and edit a ton of text really fast while your nano session is comfortable, but slow.
Vim actually has a surprising ammount of features already built in, you don’t even really need any Plugins. It has a file browser, terminal emulator, and window tiling built in
Because no editor can or should try to do everything for everyone. Plugins mean an editor can do a few things well and let others bring specific features they want later.
I was shoved into Linux by a nearly dead HPC expert who was definitely angry about the advent of electricity.
Wasn’t given any indication of a text editor, I ran across vim for one reason or another and enjoyed his Palpatine-like reaction from seeing me using vim enough to keep using it. And if you’re enjoying something, why not
Having a mentor like this is unfathomably valuable. The kind that knows exactly when a printer problem should be fixed with a sledgehammer and are not afraid to apply the “fix”.
The reason is b/c vim predates GUIs. Yes, as in all of them:-D. (Or rather, its predecessor vi did and vim unlike others very much remained true to its origins)
Even now, there are many places e.g. when doing server maintenance or accessing a compute cluster via SSH, sometimes you do not have a handy GUI environment accessible, at which point your choices become extremely limited, and it helps that vim has been installed on every Unix-i/Linux-ish machine since the 80s.
GUIs are superior, ofc, when they work. On a daily basis I even use a GUI for vim - MacVim (for Windows there used to be Cream but I am very out of date there), and there is always gVim. I could use something else but I am familiar with vim and it is EXTREMELY powerful - e.g. I could indent 100,000 lines in the middle of a file without having to manually select all of them at once first, or better still only do the indentation based on matching a pattern.
It is very advanced, and thus not for everyone, and even those of us that use it often prefer the GUI way for simple tasks like select a contiguous block of 5 lines, but it offers the benefit that it works in the widest possible number of scenarios - e.g. more than nano. emacs does too, except its commands are so configurable that the X-windows GUI number 1, X-windows GUI number 2, and command-line versions all use entirely different shortcuts, so a cheat sheet would not help. vim offers consistency that, afaik, is absolutely unmatched anywhere.
Even when Emacs had two GUI versions, the default keys were pretty much the same between them, as far as I recall, excepting features missing from one or the other. For a very long time now, it’s all been reconciled as GNU Emacs, anyhow, whether CLI or XWin GUI, or even on a Mac or (shudder) MS Windows. I just use my local running Emacs, with my preferred configuration, to edit files anywhere, such as inside a running container on a remote server in AWS, so it’s pretty consistent for me.
Thanks for the update - I so rarely use emacs that I might be guilty of misinformation here, as in what may have been true two decades ago is not any longer. I’ll try to remember that.:-)
So then what makes vim special? From what I understand it’s just a “standard” for shortcuts to features that can be shared between different editors, right?
The special thing about vim are the different modes. In a editor which does not support modal editing, you can’t bind a letter key directly to a function, or else you can’t type that letter any more.
You get everything Vscode does, vscode’s LSPs, vscode’s element rename/jump to definition (which I realise nvim has but I can’t get it to work properly and code does it out of the box), live share sessions, built in split panes and git integration etc etc
It carries over everything as far as I can tell (besides the graphical changes obviously), motions, plugins, shortcuts
I’m sure you can achieve most things Vscode does in neovim but using Vscode/ium and nvim is a massive shortcut
As far as I’m aware none of the things I mentioned work out of the box in neovim (jump to definition does but only within the same file which is kinda useless for me
You don’t ever close vim. You pray to the gods and hope that vim chooses to quit for you. (technically accurate if you think about it - i.e. otherwise you leave swap files all over the place:-P)
And hope that you do not mess up and summon a daemon instead:-P.
I can’t confirm this. when using vi, I have syntax highlighting, split windows and even search and replace. Even my Termux installation states it’s vi improved, when issuing vi -h.
That’s what I’m trying to say - in the probably most upsetting way - All of my distros - Ubuntu, Nobara, Debian and so on: all of them have vi as a symlink - only, these days.
Not all! My arch Linux install definitely has the original vi – the one where when you cw it doesn’t delete the word until you go back to normal mode to save on screen refresh. Plugins? Custom commands? Multiple buffers? Forget it!
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lol if you can’t use vim.
Who cares that you can cut a perfect miter joint with a jig and a table saw when you can’t cut a butt joint with a hand saw.
I looked up miter joint and butt joint and I’m beginning to understand what you wanted to say.
Yes, maybe.
It doesn’t hurt to know the basic commands to insert, copy, paste with vim. But with bim, handling the tool always consumed a too big percentage of my attention in respect to doing the task at hand. I still use it for small file changes.
My comment really applies more to vi than vim but everyone’s using them interchangeably nowadays. When implementing systems where internet connection or excess install size aren’t possible or recommended, you gotta be able to work with the tools at hand.
Of course, the comparison is custom cabinetry to ikea. Your local meth head needs to understand how to use hand tools because he or she may need to use them for myriad reasons ranging from “I don’t have the power version of this” to “it’s faster” to “the cut is cleaner” to “they pay me more to use this”. The person designing hudfł needs to be concerned first and foremost with how to shave a sixteenth off every panel so his accounting department doesn’t have to pay to reforest an extra hundred acres this year.
Perhaps someone working entirely in programming has good reason to not know vim, but I still cling to the antiquated notion that the person designing furniture out of manufactured materials ought to be able to build a box you’d feel comfortable with company seeing.
I use nano :-P
Go sit in a corner and think about what you’ve done
I will and I will exit nano easily
Ctrl+X -> Enter
You have to say you use Vim then actually use Nano. That’s the Linux way.
If an IDE doesn’t have vi key bindings it isn’t going to be used by me. That’s what finally get me to change from terminal only dev to vscode. Until I found the vi editing extension the IDE wasn’t of interest.
Yes, vi is just that good.
I hear emacs bindings are also great, but I just know how to save and exit from emacs.
Emacs keybinds are fine, used them for some years. But once I tried modal bindings I never wanted to go back, “key-chords” just add strain.
Fortunately emacs has many options for modal keybindings, I prefer meow over vim personally
If you try emacs again, try evil mode. It adds vi bindings.
I use doom emacs and have to say, it takes everything that I like about vim and adds to emacs, plus a lot of useful features that i would have to install myself otherwise that can be enable by just uncommenting a feel lines in the config file.
It’s can feel a bit bloated at first but allows me to have the perfect IDE (for me at least) in a matter of minutes.
And the best of all is that I don’t need to use the emacs keybinds if I don’t wanna (and I don’t).
One of the interesting aspects of humanity is how much people like given text editing methods. There’s a handful of approaches and after learning one or two, people really figure out what works for them.
I am more than happy to say I like vim, but in the end you should use what you like best. Just done be surprised when I can write and edit a ton of text really fast while your nano session is comfortable, but slow.
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Vim actually has a surprising ammount of features already built in, you don’t even really need any Plugins. It has a file browser, terminal emulator, and window tiling built in
They’re racing to be the first to make a joke about being hard to quit.
Someone here will know—why shouldn’t I use nano.
If it works for you. Go ahead
But I must be stopped!
Why? What’s wrong with your nano usage? Is it becoming a problem?
Ever since I left VI, I just haven’t felt the same. My nano has definitely persisted for more than 4 hours.
I checked my activity monitor earlier to see a ZSH session at like 40 hours or something.
I’m amazed it hasn’t fallen off at this point.
The beauty of hibernation mode, I think it technically counts as the process still running!
I like helix more :3
Helix is great except when you switch to vim for whatever reason and everything is backwards
This was the thing that stopped me from hopping over in the first place, the vim binds just make too much sense
Personally I kinda prefer helix bindings but vim bindings I think are far more useful to know when using anything other than helix
Honestly I’m sure they are great but vim bindings are near ubiquitous amongst technologies now so it’s difficult to get everyone to move away from it.
helix is superior
…but soon hopefully, already my second in command alongside VSCodium
Neovim is the pinnacle of editing. I have seen the light.
By having no plugin support or something?
plugins are a sign of weakness
Well, yes. Agreed.
Because no editor can or should try to do everything for everyone. Plugins mean an editor can do a few things well and let others bring specific features they want later.
This is bound to be an unpopular opinion here but I hate vim.
Shortcuts in vim make no sense whatsoever. They’re not the fastest possible shortcuts nor are they intuitive.
Sure it’s got useful features if you let the awful design brow beat you into memorising an absurd number of shortcuts that lack any form of logic.
You could have a cheat sheet on another monitor but at that point why not have an editor that has a gui.
I was shoved into Linux by a nearly dead HPC expert who was definitely angry about the advent of electricity.
Wasn’t given any indication of a text editor, I ran across vim for one reason or another and enjoyed his Palpatine-like reaction from seeing me using vim enough to keep using it. And if you’re enjoying something, why not
But yeah, it has some drawbacks lol
Having a mentor like this is unfathomably valuable. The kind that knows exactly when a printer problem should be fixed with a sledgehammer and are not afraid to apply the “fix”.
The reason is b/c vim predates GUIs. Yes, as in all of them:-D. (Or rather, its predecessor vi did and vim unlike others very much remained true to its origins)
Even now, there are many places e.g. when doing server maintenance or accessing a compute cluster via SSH, sometimes you do not have a handy GUI environment accessible, at which point your choices become extremely limited, and it helps that vim has been installed on every Unix-i/Linux-ish machine since the 80s.
GUIs are superior, ofc, when they work. On a daily basis I even use a GUI for vim - MacVim (for Windows there used to be Cream but I am very out of date there), and there is always gVim. I could use something else but I am familiar with vim and it is EXTREMELY powerful - e.g. I could indent 100,000 lines in the middle of a file without having to manually select all of them at once first, or better still only do the indentation based on matching a pattern.
It is very advanced, and thus not for everyone, and even those of us that use it often prefer the GUI way for simple tasks like select a contiguous block of 5 lines, but it offers the benefit that it works in the widest possible number of scenarios - e.g. more than nano. emacs does too, except its commands are so configurable that the X-windows GUI number 1, X-windows GUI number 2, and command-line versions all use entirely different shortcuts, so a cheat sheet would not help. vim offers consistency that, afaik, is absolutely unmatched anywhere.
Now you know:-).
Even when Emacs had two GUI versions, the default keys were pretty much the same between them, as far as I recall, excepting features missing from one or the other. For a very long time now, it’s all been reconciled as GNU Emacs, anyhow, whether CLI or XWin GUI, or even on a Mac or (shudder) MS Windows. I just use my local running Emacs, with my preferred configuration, to edit files anywhere, such as inside a running container on a remote server in AWS, so it’s pretty consistent for me.
Thanks for the update - I so rarely use emacs that I might be guilty of misinformation here, as in what may have been true two decades ago is not any longer. I’ll try to remember that.:-)
Its more about using your own shortcuts if you dont like some which is what you should do whatever editor you use
So then what makes vim special? From what I understand it’s just a “standard” for shortcuts to features that can be shared between different editors, right?
The special thing about vim are the different modes. In a editor which does not support modal editing, you can’t bind a letter key directly to a function, or else you can’t type that letter any more.
You can change shortcuts
I only use
nanoI used to use a lot of nvim but actually went to Jetbrains now at work… It’s just a lot easier to work with for teams.
Can you not get an nvim extension? There’s one for Vscode that works very well and even uses your existing nvim config
What does it carry over from your swim config? What are the benefits of using Nvidia inside of VSCode as opposed to just nvim?
You get everything Vscode does, vscode’s LSPs, vscode’s element rename/jump to definition (which I realise nvim has but I can’t get it to work properly and code does it out of the box), live share sessions, built in split panes and git integration etc etc
It carries over everything as far as I can tell (besides the graphical changes obviously), motions, plugins, shortcuts
I’m sure you can achieve most things Vscode does in neovim but using Vscode/ium and nvim is a massive shortcut
Honestly it seems like you gain nothing but a slightly bloated electron wrapper around NeoVim.
All those features you listed either work out of the box or require minimal configuration in NeoVim.
As far as I’m aware none of the things I mentioned work out of the box in neovim (jump to definition does but only within the same file which is kinda useless for me
nvim superiority
Nvim gang
Just bc vim is superior? (/s :-P)
What’s that at the end of your comment? Is that how you close vim??
You don’t ever close vim. You pray to the gods and hope that vim chooses to quit for you. (technically accurate if you think about it - i.e. otherwise you leave swap files all over the place:-P)
And hope that you do not mess up and summon a daemon instead:-P.
There is no point in typing the “m” in vim. Just edit your files with the vi shortcut.
“vi” acts a little different than “vim” though
How?
File splitting is the main one for me, but there’s quite a few: https://www.baeldung.com/linux/vi-vim-editors
vim (and especially neovim) have WAY more features than vi and different shortcuts. Running vim with the “vi” symlink emulates vi and disabled a lot.
I can’t confirm this. when using vi, I have syntax highlighting, split windows and even search and replace. Even my Termux installation states it’s vi improved, when issuing
vi -h.deleted by creator
More than likely your os is just symlinking vi to vim.
That’s what I’m trying to say - in the probably most upsetting way - All of my distros - Ubuntu, Nobara, Debian and so on: all of them have vi as a symlink - only, these days.
Not all! My arch Linux install definitely has the original vi – the one where when you
cwit doesn’t delete the word until you go back to normal mode to save on screen refresh. Plugins? Custom commands? Multiple buffers? Forget it!deleted by creator