I’m pretty impressed with The Verge this time around.
They did a very good job quickly explaining the legal stance and argument that Nintendo has with their lawsuit, what needs to happen for it to be successful, and how the precedent set in 1999 around emulators isn’t applicable to this suit.
I totally bought stardew valley and recommened this game a bunch of times to people after “trying” it. In fact, I have bought it twice on PC, once on Switch, and on iOS.
Do they have a patreon? I think part of Nintendo’s extermination policy is “if you try to make money from it, it’s lost revenue, and we will murder you.” For example dolphin has been around forever, but always open source and without a patreon or the like
Just speculation, but there must be a reason why they target Yuzu but not Ryujinx. Maybe because Ryujinx is open source and there is nothing illegal in the code?
My guess is they are just tackling one thing at a time, and ryujinx is next on their chopping block. It’s entirely possible they’ve already sent cease and desist notices to to ryujinx
If Yuzu is open source why is the public version way behind the patreon one? Legit question, this must be why it’s a prime target since Ryujinx doesn’t do that, there’s only one version.
Can the paywalled version be found hosted anywhere? I’m expecting Yuzu to get scrubbed from most of the Internet very soon, so I want to grab the latest stable release.
Nintendo’s argument in the filing is that Yuzu is designed primarily for circumventing the Switch’s encryption (a.k.a. copyright protection measures). Their justification is that Yuzu uses prod.keys to decrypt various things like the ROM filesystems and the system firmware*. Ryujinx also uses prod.keys, so they would be just as legitimate of a target for that argument as Yuzu is.
Personally, I think they chose to go after Yuzu first because it’s more popular and runs at playable framerates on modern Android devices. If the lawsuit goes in Nintendo’s favor, I guarantee they’ll immediately use that precident to make the same argument against and swiftly kill Ryujinx.
*This is actually a valid argument that is not affected by past suits like Bleem v. Sony.
I’m able to play the Italian plumber game, can’t remember the name, on my spare six year old OnePlus 6T Android phone with a Bluetooth 8BitDo controller. my new Google Pixel crashes when I hit the jump button. it really depeyon the hardware. Also runs great on my desktop.
It could be a config issue. If you’re using OpenGL, it could also be caused by shaders, which can cause the game to stutter the first time they’re generated. Once it’s generated, it’s cached and able to be recalled quickly. But the first time it’s used, it takes a moment to generate, which can lead to stuttering.
Basically, due to shaders being generated and stored, the game will tend to get smoother as you play it more, and will likely be stutter-free (or at least, nearly stutter-free) by your second playthrough.
Technically speaking, sharing the shader cache is illegal. Just like sharing the game files is illegal. You can 100% still find complete shader caches online, and it’s just a matter of dropping them into the correct folder. But again, it’s technically illegal to do, so you’ll likely need to visit some sketchy sites with your adblocker enabled.
The shaders are akin to the uncompressed game files, which are ready to use. It’s not a perfect comparison, but that’s the short version. So the shader cache will likely be just as large as the actual game.
i’m afraid that if NoA wins this, console manufacturers might start slapping DRM into their consoles, and therefore making them (legally) unemulatable and potentially discouraging development of modern console emulation.
now sure, this is a piracy sub, but i’m not sure if the yuzu devs are keen into piracy…
i also wonder if there’s any way to fight back. people who dump their legal copies are being screwed as well.
I know, it’s a reddit link, but OP does a good job summarizing and providing sources.
Anyway, videogames are specifically called out. Essentially, if you’re circumventing DRM for emulation for games that are still current and actively supported by their publishers/devs, it is not legal. However, if you’re circumventing DRM to repair/troubleshoot/diagnose your console, that’s kosher (whole right-to-repair stance). So it isn’t completely black and white. Yuzu devs will have a tough case ahead of them depending on what all evidence Nintendo has gathered.
Correct, but we don’t know what all has taken place over the years regarding Discord chats, forum posts, etc. where one of the devs might have accidentally incriminated themselves/the project. That’s what I meant by it depends what kind of evidence Nintendo has gathered. I’m assuming there’s a reason Nintendo waited as long as they have to go after them, seeing as Yuzu has been quite famous for a long time and it seems as of they’re not also going after Ryujinx (or maybe they’re not just yet?).
console manufacturers might start slapping DRM into their consoles
You been living under a rock bud? That’s literally the idea of a game console, it’s ultimately what separates console gaming from PC gaming.
now sure, this is a piracy sub, but i’m not sure if the yuzu devs are keen into piracy…
They literally sabotage their emulator so it can’t play certain games in case of leaks, they’re well past that point.
i also wonder if there’s any way to fight back. people who dump their legal copies are being screwed as well.
Could develop the emulators from a country that doesn’t respect intellectual property rights, it works well enough for Empress, obviously it would absolutely not work out for her if she tried to do what she does in America.
@SergioFLS@ardi60
I’m really concerned about the future of digital freedom. All big corporations are doing shit with governments to regulate and control the Internet, just for profits. Consumers and end users are abused, no governments care to preserve our freedom just to preserve the business of these big corporations like Nintendo, Disney, or Apple.
How to be optimistic for the future?
“No governments care” is an outright lie. Sure, there’s always more they could do, but the EU is at the forefront of regulating tech. And that’s a big conglomeration of countries and their respective governments.
The Liberal government in Canada just announced “The Online Harms Act”, and a leading Canadian legal scholar/lawyer and information privacy advocate, Michael Geist, says that it’s actually good legislation (for the most part).
So, there’s movement in the right direction in other jurisdictions, too.
(Then again, our Senate is currently working on a bill to require age verification for porn, which we all know won’t work and is a massive potential privacy quagmire.)
Edit: lol, autocorrect “Lobster” instead of “Liberal”.
@Crikeste When it comes to copyright laws, it feels like nothing’s really being done to look out for us, the consumers. Take the EU for example, they’re making YouTube use upload filters with Content ID. And in a lot of places, it’s still against the law to break DRM, even if you’re just making private copies. Honestly, I’m not so sure we can rely on governments to stand up to big corporations on our behalf.
All intellectual property laws should be reworked, but nothing will happen.
This, I think, is a problem that is caused by tech illiteracy in governments. I mean shit, even I barely understand the things you brought up, and I’m a millennial. The boomers (mostly) that run governments DEFINITELY don’t understand those things. At least, at the level someone like you may. And that’s a problem that needs to be solved, because ignorant people are easily taken advantage of.
I still believe my point stands, but I absolutely agree with you.
The comments section here is pretty much an echo chamber of people defending Yuzu.
I’m a game dev and I think this case is more ambiguous. Emulators like Yuzu have the potential to make Switch piracy go mainstream.
You don’t need to hack anything, you just follow a tutorial and google “yuzu keys”, suddenly you can play all Switch games for free. And people don’t need to be tech-savvy to do that. Nintendo would be stupid if they would just ignore this.
It doesn’t help that the Tegra X1 is old, almost identical with other Nvidia chipsets and therefore easy to emulate on a PC.
That’s a good point actually. I would argue that most emulators didn’t get good enough during the lifetime of the console, and even Yuzu isn’t there yet. But you can see the potential, and that’s threatening to Nintendo’s business model.
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I’m pretty impressed with The Verge this time around.
They did a very good job quickly explaining the legal stance and argument that Nintendo has with their lawsuit, what needs to happen for it to be successful, and how the precedent set in 1999 around emulators isn’t applicable to this suit.
Good luck to those out of touch wankers.
I’d prefer to use proprietary products but Nintendo have shit business practices and I hate them so Yuzu it is always and forever
PSF (Proprietary Software Foundation)
brb downloading Yuzu repo
Can’t sell boats anymore, they clearly facilitate piracy at a colossal scale. /s
deleted by creator
It needs to work both ways then. Nintendo needs to pay for all the free advertisement that emulators provide.
Anytime I mess with an emulator and play an old game it triggers nostalgia. I then purchase new software and hardware from the company it belongs to.
This is some shady shit that Nintendo is pulling.
I totally bought stardew valley and recommened this game a bunch of times to people after “trying” it. In fact, I have bought it twice on PC, once on Switch, and on iOS.
Meanwhile Ryujinx
Do they have a patreon? I think part of Nintendo’s extermination policy is “if you try to make money from it, it’s lost revenue, and we will murder you.” For example dolphin has been around forever, but always open source and without a patreon or the like
EDIT:
Answered my own question
RIP
https://www.patreon.com/ryujinx
Just speculation, but there must be a reason why they target Yuzu but not Ryujinx. Maybe because Ryujinx is open source and there is nothing illegal in the code?
Edit: A word.
But yuzu is open source as well: https://github.com/yuzu-emu/yuzu
My guess is they are just tackling one thing at a time, and ryujinx is next on their chopping block. It’s entirely possible they’ve already sent cease and desist notices to to ryujinx
If Yuzu is open source why is the public version way behind the patreon one? Legit question, this must be why it’s a prime target since Ryujinx doesn’t do that, there’s only one version.
Because on their argument, that is “paywalled” until it becomes public.
Can the paywalled version be found hosted anywhere? I’m expecting Yuzu to get scrubbed from most of the Internet very soon, so I want to grab the latest stable release.
Yuzu pineapple apparently.
Nintendo’s argument in the filing is that Yuzu is designed primarily for circumventing the Switch’s encryption (a.k.a. copyright protection measures). Their justification is that Yuzu uses
prod.keysto decrypt various things like the ROM filesystems and the system firmware*. Ryujinx also usesprod.keys, so they would be just as legitimate of a target for that argument as Yuzu is.Personally, I think they chose to go after Yuzu first because it’s more popular and runs at playable framerates on modern Android devices. If the lawsuit goes in Nintendo’s favor, I guarantee they’ll immediately use that precident to make the same argument against and swiftly kill Ryujinx.
*This is actually a valid argument that is not affected by past suits like Bleem v. Sony.
Fuck Nintendo
if it runs better, at a higher resolution, with the option of using a reliable controller, i will emulate it.
Are people finding games playable? I tried Zelda and it was unplayable due to lag.
I’m able to play the Italian plumber game, can’t remember the name, on my spare six year old OnePlus 6T Android phone with a Bluetooth 8BitDo controller. my new Google Pixel crashes when I hit the jump button. it really depeyon the hardware. Also runs great on my desktop.
Depends on your hardware. For instance, the Steam Deck runs Yuzu beautifully.
I’ve not tried my deck. My desktop quite a lot more powerful than the deck so I guess it’s a config issue
It could be a config issue. If you’re using OpenGL, it could also be caused by shaders, which can cause the game to stutter the first time they’re generated. Once it’s generated, it’s cached and able to be recalled quickly. But the first time it’s used, it takes a moment to generate, which can lead to stuttering.
Basically, due to shaders being generated and stored, the game will tend to get smoother as you play it more, and will likely be stutter-free (or at least, nearly stutter-free) by your second playthrough.
This may be it. I did notice on the status bar it mentioned shaders. Is there no way to get these to be generated before play?
Technically speaking, sharing the shader cache is illegal. Just like sharing the game files is illegal. You can 100% still find complete shader caches online, and it’s just a matter of dropping them into the correct folder. But again, it’s technically illegal to do, so you’ll likely need to visit some sketchy sites with your adblocker enabled.
The shaders are akin to the uncompressed game files, which are ready to use. It’s not a perfect comparison, but that’s the short version. So the shader cache will likely be just as large as the actual game.
Ok thanks.
Which platform are you playing it on?
Switch
Lol
nintendrones are the most brainwashed corporate bootlickers I’ve ever encountered
In other news, I got a DMCA email from Xfinity today. Might or might not be able a Nintendo switch game. 🤪
Get a VPN!
i’m afraid that if NoA wins this, console manufacturers might start slapping DRM into their consoles, and therefore making them (legally) unemulatable and potentially discouraging development of modern console emulation.
now sure, this is a piracy sub, but i’m not sure if the yuzu devs are keen into piracy…
i also wonder if there’s any way to fight back. people who dump their legal copies are being screwed as well.
Well switch already have DRM. Except circumventing DRM for archiving purpose is totally legal. This lawsuit is groundless.
Circumventing DRM for archiving is not totally legal in all circumstances: https://www.reddit.com/r/emulation/comments/9rfezi/us_copyright_office_gives_the_okay_to_circumvent/
I know, it’s a reddit link, but OP does a good job summarizing and providing sources.
Anyway, videogames are specifically called out. Essentially, if you’re circumventing DRM for emulation for games that are still current and actively supported by their publishers/devs, it is not legal. However, if you’re circumventing DRM to repair/troubleshoot/diagnose your console, that’s kosher (whole right-to-repair stance). So it isn’t completely black and white. Yuzu devs will have a tough case ahead of them depending on what all evidence Nintendo has gathered.
Yeah, you are right and I was somewhat misinformed.
That been said, yuzu isn’t the one doing circumventing is it? It doesn’t provide tools for dumping games or anything. It’s just an emulator.
Correct, but we don’t know what all has taken place over the years regarding Discord chats, forum posts, etc. where one of the devs might have accidentally incriminated themselves/the project. That’s what I meant by it depends what kind of evidence Nintendo has gathered. I’m assuming there’s a reason Nintendo waited as long as they have to go after them, seeing as Yuzu has been quite famous for a long time and it seems as of they’re not also going after Ryujinx (or maybe they’re not just yet?).
You been living under a rock bud? That’s literally the idea of a game console, it’s ultimately what separates console gaming from PC gaming.
They literally sabotage their emulator so it can’t play certain games in case of leaks, they’re well past that point.
Could develop the emulators from a country that doesn’t respect intellectual property rights, it works well enough for Empress, obviously it would absolutely not work out for her if she tried to do what she does in America.
@SergioFLS @ardi60
I’m really concerned about the future of digital freedom. All big corporations are doing shit with governments to regulate and control the Internet, just for profits. Consumers and end users are abused, no governments care to preserve our freedom just to preserve the business of these big corporations like Nintendo, Disney, or Apple.
How to be optimistic for the future?
“No governments care” is an outright lie. Sure, there’s always more they could do, but the EU is at the forefront of regulating tech. And that’s a big conglomeration of countries and their respective governments.
The Liberal government in Canada just announced “The Online Harms Act”, and a leading Canadian legal scholar/lawyer and information privacy advocate, Michael Geist, says that it’s actually good legislation (for the most part).
So, there’s movement in the right direction in other jurisdictions, too.
(Then again, our Senate is currently working on a bill to require age verification for porn, which we all know won’t work and is a massive potential privacy quagmire.)
Edit: lol, autocorrect “Lobster” instead of “Liberal”.
Bro, as a person living in a state that has imposed age verification for porn, it doesn’t work. At fucking ALL. Lmao
Either websites don’t give a fuck (videos.com) or they have outright removed themselves from the state (pornhub.com and all it’s sisters).
Not to mention that Twitter is practically a porn browser now.
@Crikeste When it comes to copyright laws, it feels like nothing’s really being done to look out for us, the consumers. Take the EU for example, they’re making YouTube use upload filters with Content ID. And in a lot of places, it’s still against the law to break DRM, even if you’re just making private copies. Honestly, I’m not so sure we can rely on governments to stand up to big corporations on our behalf.
All intellectual property laws should be reworked, but nothing will happen.
We can, but a lot more flags need to feature a hammer and sickle for that.
This, I think, is a problem that is caused by tech illiteracy in governments. I mean shit, even I barely understand the things you brought up, and I’m a millennial. The boomers (mostly) that run governments DEFINITELY don’t understand those things. At least, at the level someone like you may. And that’s a problem that needs to be solved, because ignorant people are easily taken advantage of.
I still believe my point stands, but I absolutely agree with you.
… start?
It is always morally correct to pirate nintendo products.
Or anything by megacorps in general really
It’s impossible to steal from a billionaire.
The comments section here is pretty much an echo chamber of people defending Yuzu. I’m a game dev and I think this case is more ambiguous. Emulators like Yuzu have the potential to make Switch piracy go mainstream. You don’t need to hack anything, you just follow a tutorial and google “yuzu keys”, suddenly you can play all Switch games for free. And people don’t need to be tech-savvy to do that. Nintendo would be stupid if they would just ignore this. It doesn’t help that the Tegra X1 is old, almost identical with other Nvidia chipsets and therefore easy to emulate on a PC.
Every single emulator has been like this for more than 20 years. Has it gone mainstream yet?
That’s a good point actually. I would argue that most emulators didn’t get good enough during the lifetime of the console, and even Yuzu isn’t there yet. But you can see the potential, and that’s threatening to Nintendo’s business model.
I thought Nintendo’s business model was going to make the Switch obsolete next year.
Maybe their next console will have a very similar hardware architecture and it will be easy to adapt existing Switch emulators?
They should sue Google, Microsoft and other search engine owners because they’re facilitating piracy as well. They lead you to illegal software.
I’m a game dev and I think ur talking out your ass we get paid for working hours not for how much a game doesnt get pirated after launch
if you want job security, unionize your workplace
I wasn’t talking about job security.