West is right in the quote above. Progressives have every right to advocate and agitate through the primaries and beyond. Arguments about electoral unity in the face of creeping fascism definitely have their place, but it is way too soon to be making them. (Edit: in other words, take a wider view and save that messaging for the general election).
Primary season is where the edges of a coalition have a chance to pull the party back from the center. West probably can’t win, but his voice and others like it are keeping the Overton window from drifting ever rightward. You don’t have to agree with everything he says to appreciate that he is out there.
But is West leading a coalition of candidates across several positions or only running for himself?
There seems to be a fixation of the President as being the only place where change can happen, but a lot of work happens at the local and state level. You need a progressive Congress to pass progressive legislation. Biden isn’t vetoing progressive legislation, so the issue isn’t with him.
Sanders said he agrees it “certainly is not” the best economy the U.S. could create, he called on progressives to coalesce around Biden… I think we’ve got to bring the entire progressive community to defeat Trump or whoever the Republican nominee will be, [and] support Biden
(bold by me)
This is just kinda sad and heart breaking. I just don’t get it, with this rhetoric there is never an end and it’s for a candidate who’s not even that great of a choice for the people. Now it’s not even “Trump” that’s the reasoning, just…anyone who’s the republican nominee?
“Where I disagree with my good friend, Cornel West, is I think in these really very difficult times, where there is a real question whether democracy is going to remain in the United States of America.
This is a guy who fought in the civil rights era, he above anyone else should know Democracy will always be threatened.
Democracy is a system of government and form of liberalism in which state power is vested in the people, or the general population of a state based on principles of liberty and free will. source
How is true Democracy being upheld if you’re voting under duress with fear mongering threatening to take the very thing that’s being stolen when told this is the only path forward? The republican party is a shit show right now. The red wave scare that never happened in 2022, the front-runner nominee indicted under multiple charges, the completely abysmal performance of the republican debate, in-fighting between their zealous factions, on and on we must not look at the reality of what’s happening before us. We must simply check-mark the D box without looking into anything and all will be saved.
I empathize with what you are saying, but the red wave didn’t happen because a bunch of Republicans died from COVID and youth voters mobilized in big numbers. The best solution I see is, as someone else said, changing our voting system to ranked choice. It will create more freedom of choice, parties will have to develop stronger platforms, and it will be easier to stomp out fascists. And Biden has made some moves to help progressive causes, and there has been a lot of success on local and state levels. Even if that isn’t satisfactory, the old guard is shuffling off slowly but surely. It is a miscarriage of democracy that Diane Feinstein still has a seat, and the politicing over filling her space is doubly shameful. I would certainly hope that establishment Dems know how fragile their voter coalition is, especially after losing Roe after decades of doing nothing to codify it. As much as it is fuck around/find out time for the GOP, it’s put up or shut up time for Dems.
Could you provide me with some sources for context on the statements you have made?
the red wave didn’t happen because a bunch of Republicans died from COVID and youth voters mobilized in big numbers
Biden has made some moves to help progressive causes, and there has been a lot of success on local and state levels
the old guard is shuffling off slowly but surely
I am not disputing your claims, I purely wish to be able to absorb the information you have presented with fact checked sources to confirm the viewpoint so that I can better my stance on the current state of politics.
I’m not going to hunt down formal sources for these, because they’ve been pretty widely reported on, especially back during the 2022 election. We know COVID disproportionately affected older, conservative communities. In less populated, more rural areas, even a few dozen more deaths could affect outcomes. We know youth turnout was higher than in previous years, and certain Republicans’ push to raise the voter age is a reaction to that. Biden is still challenging SCOTUS about student loans and is currently working on getting Medicare pricing for lots of medications. I’m from Michigan, and our state government has recently passed a lot of progressive policies, same for my local city and many of the cities near me. So there may be some bias there, but there have also been a lot of public success in Minnesota and Hawaii. And Jim Inhofe just retired, and between McConnell’s freeze and Feinstein rambling during a vote, it’s clear these elderly reps are having health issues. They can’t live forever.
Yeah it sucks. But those of us paying attention, and have a basic grasp on history, know what the alternative is. See Florida for a microcosm.
Running candidates that nobody thinks will ever win everybody knows will lose, in a first past the post system, that will only siphon votes away from the one candidate that can prevent that fascism from fully taking hold of the nation, for pride is not only incredibly ignorant and short-sighted, but it also ignores what third parties (particularly progressive ones) do to electoral counts.
This isn’t a fucking game, and it’s not a joke. The wolf is at the door, we don’t have the luxury to be throwing away votes on Cornell fucking West.
If you want to vote third party, get ranked choice voting. Until then, get with reality, or vote third party and take responsibility for ushering in the end of our Republic. Your choice.
those of us paying attention, and have a basic grasp on history, know
incredibly ignorant and short-sighted
isn’t a fucking game, and it’s not a joke
throwing away votes on Cornell fucking West
get with reality
take responsibility for ushering in the end of our Republic
These are the types of conversations that are non-productive and show you have nothing meaningful to add without belittling or insulting others with opposing opinions (which I will not engage with for my own sanity if the same rhetoric is used in a reply). If you wish to converse about actual policies or facts with references/sources, then I’m here for that. I will address the only two points you made in your 150+ word reply from this point on.
What about Florida means I should remove my free will of choice to protect my free will of choice? Because a southern conservative state is passing conservative policies? What is the next presidential run of Biden going to do about the Florida microcosm in which you have evoked as reasoning? Here are some references in which I see the battle inside of Florida to continue at the state and local level,
I think we view the microcosm of Florida differently, one of fear and one of hopefulness.
“Republicans surpass Democrats in terms of their voter registration numbers recently for the first time in state history…Democrats sort of gave up on Florida this cycle and chose to spend their money elsewhere. And, you know, you can argue whether or not that was a correct strategy, but they did obviously have victories elsewhere. But their margins in Florida were just - the losses are so gigantic, in part because the Democratic candidates there received very little support from national donors and really faced a massive fundraising disadvantage. So they weren’t really able to get their message out there.” (npr-2022)
So a state that the democratic party purposefully didn’t fight to support is now our fear to continue supporting the democratic party?
“Republicans focused on the ultimate goal,” said Fernand Amandi, a Miami-based Democratic pollster who helped former President Barack Obama win the state in 2008 and 2012. “They thought things out in 10-year cycles. They built a permanent campaign apparatus. They started recruiting candidates to run for local office and springboarding them into higher office. They registered voters and managed the margins.” (the hill)
Please explain to me how I’m suppose to “get” Ranked Choice Voting (RCV). Do you know of it’s history and/or any legislation brought forth by the one party we are allowed to vote for? We’re coming up on near 200 years after the civil war, how many states have RCV currently in main elections and how was that achieved? 2, only 2 states both with ballot initiatives from other sources and not introduced by the Democratic party. One from Alaska which was heavily funded by outside the state (source) and another in Maine which the Democratic Governor refused to sign,
On September 6, 2019, Governor Janet Mills allowed the bill to become law without her signature, which delayed it from taking effect until after the 2020 presidential primaries in March (source). A “people’s veto” in 2018, approved by voters, rejected parts of the new law that sought to delay RCV’s implementation until 2022. (source).
RCV has been pushed in spite of the democratic parties antics, but their the only way to achieve this option? Have you noticed that all of this discourse has nothing to do with Cornel West in which you’ve already used profanity with his name as a means to disenfranchise with no true reasoning? You’re being strangled and are asking them to please continue while begging them to save you.
If you want to vote third party, get ranked choice voting. Until then, get with reality, or vote third party and take responsibility for ushering in the end of our Republic. Your choice.
i’m voting for cornel west precisely because he is promising to dismantle the empire.
I agree with this post you made. If the best we can do is vote into office a fairly old, out-of-tuoch president who has done a moderately decent job of running the United States, then it’s a lose-lose situation for everyone. Politics especially in the United States has become too boring and safe. We need to take a risk on Cornell West and spice the game up a bit. Else we’ll repeat the same mistakes we’ve been making for the past 50 years.
Edit; pls forgive my passion posting, whoops. Point is we need a shake up cuz stuff is going down the drain a little
“Boring and Safe” when the man has a button to literally annihilate the world 10 times over and can literally lead the world into WW3/massive trade wars/destroy countries over night seems petty logical.
I just wish he had learned that lesson for the 2016 election already and had been properly vocal back then. The US (and world) would be in a much better place now if Trump never had become president.
I think it was his personal antipathy towards Hillary. Which I think given his history of working with women was basically sexism. I’m glad he’s on-side now but the world would be very different if he had gotten over himself 8 years ago.
bernie supported hilary after the primary, and i would guess basically all of the people who voted for him in 2016 ultimately went on to vote for a woman, whether it was hilary or jill stein.
this accusation of sexism is pure character assassination.
Is it? Have you seen how he acted with Elizabeth Warren? I wouldn’t exactly call his support for Hillary full-throated, especially compared to his support of Biden. And I certainly wouldn’t say he exactly has a great record with women politicians.
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West is right in the quote above. Progressives have every right to advocate and agitate through the primaries and beyond. Arguments about electoral unity in the face of creeping fascism definitely have their place, but it is way too soon to be making them. (Edit: in other words, take a wider view and save that messaging for the general election).
Primary season is where the edges of a coalition have a chance to pull the party back from the center. West probably can’t win, but his voice and others like it are keeping the Overton window from drifting ever rightward. You don’t have to agree with everything he says to appreciate that he is out there.
But is West leading a coalition of candidates across several positions or only running for himself?
There seems to be a fixation of the President as being the only place where change can happen, but a lot of work happens at the local and state level. You need a progressive Congress to pass progressive legislation. Biden isn’t vetoing progressive legislation, so the issue isn’t with him.
(bold by me)
This is just kinda sad and heart breaking. I just don’t get it, with this rhetoric there is never an end and it’s for a candidate who’s not even that great of a choice for the people. Now it’s not even “Trump” that’s the reasoning, just…anyone who’s the republican nominee?
This is a guy who fought in the civil rights era, he above anyone else should know Democracy will always be threatened.
How is true Democracy being upheld if you’re voting under duress with fear mongering threatening to take the very thing that’s being stolen when told this is the only path forward? The republican party is a shit show right now. The red wave scare that never happened in 2022, the front-runner nominee indicted under multiple charges, the completely abysmal performance of the republican debate, in-fighting between their zealous factions, on and on we must not look at the reality of what’s happening before us. We must simply check-mark the D box without looking into anything and all will be saved.
I empathize with what you are saying, but the red wave didn’t happen because a bunch of Republicans died from COVID and youth voters mobilized in big numbers. The best solution I see is, as someone else said, changing our voting system to ranked choice. It will create more freedom of choice, parties will have to develop stronger platforms, and it will be easier to stomp out fascists. And Biden has made some moves to help progressive causes, and there has been a lot of success on local and state levels. Even if that isn’t satisfactory, the old guard is shuffling off slowly but surely. It is a miscarriage of democracy that Diane Feinstein still has a seat, and the politicing over filling her space is doubly shameful. I would certainly hope that establishment Dems know how fragile their voter coalition is, especially after losing Roe after decades of doing nothing to codify it. As much as it is fuck around/find out time for the GOP, it’s put up or shut up time for Dems.
Could you provide me with some sources for context on the statements you have made?
I am not disputing your claims, I purely wish to be able to absorb the information you have presented with fact checked sources to confirm the viewpoint so that I can better my stance on the current state of politics.
I’m not going to hunt down formal sources for these, because they’ve been pretty widely reported on, especially back during the 2022 election. We know COVID disproportionately affected older, conservative communities. In less populated, more rural areas, even a few dozen more deaths could affect outcomes. We know youth turnout was higher than in previous years, and certain Republicans’ push to raise the voter age is a reaction to that. Biden is still challenging SCOTUS about student loans and is currently working on getting Medicare pricing for lots of medications. I’m from Michigan, and our state government has recently passed a lot of progressive policies, same for my local city and many of the cities near me. So there may be some bias there, but there have also been a lot of public success in Minnesota and Hawaii. And Jim Inhofe just retired, and between McConnell’s freeze and Feinstein rambling during a vote, it’s clear these elderly reps are having health issues. They can’t live forever.
Yeah it sucks. But those of us paying attention, and have a basic grasp on history, know what the alternative is. See Florida for a microcosm.
Running candidates that
nobody thinks will ever wineverybody knows will lose, in a first past the post system, that will only siphon votes away from the one candidate that can prevent that fascism from fully taking hold of the nation, for pride is not only incredibly ignorant and short-sighted, but it also ignores what third parties (particularly progressive ones) do to electoral counts.This isn’t a fucking game, and it’s not a joke. The wolf is at the door, we don’t have the luxury to be throwing away votes on Cornell fucking West.
If you want to vote third party, get ranked choice voting. Until then, get with reality, or vote third party and take responsibility for ushering in the end of our Republic. Your choice.
These are the types of conversations that are non-productive and show you have nothing meaningful to add without belittling or insulting others with opposing opinions (which I will not engage with for my own sanity if the same rhetoric is used in a reply). If you wish to converse about actual policies or facts with references/sources, then I’m here for that. I will address the only two points you made in your 150+ word reply from this point on.
What about Florida means I should remove my free will of choice to protect my free will of choice? Because a southern conservative state is passing conservative policies? What is the next presidential run of Biden going to do about the Florida microcosm in which you have evoked as reasoning? Here are some references in which I see the battle inside of Florida to continue at the state and local level,
I think we view the microcosm of Florida differently, one of fear and one of hopefulness.
So a state that the democratic party purposefully didn’t fight to support is now our fear to continue supporting the democratic party?
Please explain to me how I’m suppose to “get” Ranked Choice Voting (RCV). Do you know of it’s history and/or any legislation brought forth by the one party we are allowed to vote for? We’re coming up on near 200 years after the civil war, how many states have RCV currently in main elections and how was that achieved? 2, only 2 states both with ballot initiatives from other sources and not introduced by the Democratic party. One from Alaska which was heavily funded by outside the state (source) and another in Maine which the Democratic Governor refused to sign,
RCV has been pushed in spite of the democratic parties antics, but their the only way to achieve this option? Have you noticed that all of this discourse has nothing to do with Cornel West in which you’ve already used profanity with his name as a means to disenfranchise with no true reasoning? You’re being strangled and are asking them to please continue while begging them to save you.
i’m voting for cornel west precisely because he is promising to dismantle the empire.
When you dismantle an empire, citizens die.
Also, it won’t be West that does it. It will be Desantis.
West has no power and no hope of victory, so he can say whatever the duck he wants. The rest of us have to be realists.
i’m still planning to vote for west twice if i can.
I agree with this post you made. If the best we can do is vote into office a fairly old, out-of-tuoch president who has done a moderately decent job of running the United States, then it’s a lose-lose situation for everyone. Politics especially in the United States has become too boring and safe. We need to take a risk on Cornell West and spice the game up a bit. Else we’ll repeat the same mistakes we’ve been making for the past 50 years.
Edit; pls forgive my passion posting, whoops. Point is we need a shake up cuz stuff is going down the drain a little
WHAT
“Boring and Safe” when the man has a button to literally annihilate the world 10 times over and can literally lead the world into WW3/massive trade wars/destroy countries over night seems petty logical.
Pretty cool of Bernie.
I just wish he had learned that lesson for the 2016 election already and had been properly vocal back then. The US (and world) would be in a much better place now if Trump never had become president.
Yeah me too.
I think it was his personal antipathy towards Hillary. Which I think given his history of working with women was basically sexism. I’m glad he’s on-side now but the world would be very different if he had gotten over himself 8 years ago.
bernie supported hilary after the primary, and i would guess basically all of the people who voted for him in 2016 ultimately went on to vote for a woman, whether it was hilary or jill stein.
this accusation of sexism is pure character assassination.
Is it? Have you seen how he acted with Elizabeth Warren? I wouldn’t exactly call his support for Hillary full-throated, especially compared to his support of Biden. And I certainly wouldn’t say he exactly has a great record with women politicians.