It’s crazy to think that knowing how badly the Province and City fucked up to the point the Feds had to step in and now we’re told they didn’t need to?
Bullshit. These people wanted Trudeau to resign and for the US mandate on truckers entering their country be lifted.
I dunno, on the whole I’m pretty happy about this ruling.
The “trucker” convoy was a sad and pathetic tantrum thrown by the absolute worst members of our society, but it never actually strayed into “storming parliament” like shit did South of the border. While I absolutely love the idea of those assholes being slapped down for their bullshit, I also worry that any tool used against them can just as easily be used against anti-fascist, anti-capitalist, or anti-climate-destruction protests (to name just a few examples). I’m not a “free speech absolutist” and I do believe we can draw lines between allowable and unallowable speech (Popper’s paradox of tolerance, yada yada), but i also think we need to be very careful about clamouring to restrict methods of protest just because they’re being used by people we don’t like.
On the whole, I think it’s probably good and healthy for our democracy for the government to be found in the wrong on this one. I also don’t think it actually reflects all that badly on them given that, as the judge took pains to acknowledge, hindsight is 20/20. Jan 6th really hung over the whole thing in a big way that definitely influenced choices made.
This wasn’t really about free speech though, it was about actions and if you blockade a city, waiting for the PM to resign, you should be not allowed to do that. If the Ontario Police Force or Ottawa Police did their job at enforcing rules, the Feds wouldn’t have done anything.
What’s the limit on protesting? Can we all form a blockade around Pierre’s house and shout loudly until he quits as leader of the CPC?
I think the question is how far along you are to the October crisis before the emergencies act can be deemed to be constitutional? Does it take one murdered minister to invoke it? Or should it be invoked before it happens?
Well if you are indigenous you can have RCMP bash in your door with an axe and arrest you without a warrant, because you are a protestor. And also arrest media trying to film removing protestors. But white truckers are fine to do what they want.
Worse things have happened with less gunpowder in the keg.
Also
blocking trade
barring emergency staff (ambulance)
lighting fires through letter slots
lotsa guns
And now all Mr polievre will talk about is Hair Guy’s Illegal Emergency because after 8 years they finally have something to whine about that’s (been made) true.
So what was the right answer? Ford already abandoned his responsibilty. How was the federal government suppose to react after weeks of protest? Can we park an 18 wheeler at the judges home and air horn the neighbourhood for months and expect no one to react?
ya i don’t get this. Ford does not and no premier should give the OPP orders. They can pass laws and expect the OPP to enforce them but elected members are not the boss of our police force.
The inability to deal with this without declaring wartime level powers is entirely on them. I was blown away that anything short of storming the Parliament Buildings warranted this declaration.
I had no love for the “freedom” wackos, but jfc, this was embarassing to see.
On the police, and provincial government, 100%. They say around with their thumb up their ass, pandering to people bring our.capital to a half, while the truckers pissed in doors, honked Horns all day long, and blocked trade.
The emergencies act is a drastic measure, but this situation warranted it. If the RCMP or the province had done SOMETHING earlier, it wouldn’t have been needed.
Well that will certainly go to appeal. I watched (and listened, through their Zello channels) that entire event very closely. I was still laid off from covid at that point so I had the time. The local authorities were doing sweet FA and the federal government was absolutely justified in doing what it did. After 3+ weeks of no action by local authorities and thus no movement with clearing this siege the feds stepped in and cleared it up in a day or two. That shows how little resolve the convoy participants really had and thus how little the Ottawa police were interested in doing their jobs.
Now now, the cops were doing something: they tried to break up the Ottawa people at Billing’s Bridge who were preventing more trucks from getting downtown.
The cops weren’t sitting on their asses, they were complicit.
I agree, as someone who also did follow it closely they had no choice. They had a bunch of people acting against them politically, and stopping anything from being resolved.
I was suprised to hear this and fully expect a reversal on appeal.
Stealing this from a post on Mastodon, just to provide some clarity.
The judge said he would have supported invoking #EmergenciesAct had he been sitting at the cabinet table.
With the information they had at the time, Cabinet did the right thing.
It’s only with the benefit of hindsight, which the federal cabinet did not have, that the judge determines they erred.
Invoking the Act in #Ottawa & #Ontario was proper. He merely disputes invoking it nation-wide.
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Declare an emergency. 2 years later, after careful deliberation, a judge decides it wasn’t actually an emergency.
Maybe if the judge had truckers outside his house blaring their horns while he decided on the case it would have come out differently.
It’s crazy to think that knowing how badly the Province and City fucked up to the point the Feds had to step in and now we’re told they didn’t need to?
Bullshit. These people wanted Trudeau to resign and for the US mandate on truckers entering their country be lifted.
I dunno, on the whole I’m pretty happy about this ruling.
The “trucker” convoy was a sad and pathetic tantrum thrown by the absolute worst members of our society, but it never actually strayed into “storming parliament” like shit did South of the border. While I absolutely love the idea of those assholes being slapped down for their bullshit, I also worry that any tool used against them can just as easily be used against anti-fascist, anti-capitalist, or anti-climate-destruction protests (to name just a few examples). I’m not a “free speech absolutist” and I do believe we can draw lines between allowable and unallowable speech (Popper’s paradox of tolerance, yada yada), but i also think we need to be very careful about clamouring to restrict methods of protest just because they’re being used by people we don’t like.
On the whole, I think it’s probably good and healthy for our democracy for the government to be found in the wrong on this one. I also don’t think it actually reflects all that badly on them given that, as the judge took pains to acknowledge, hindsight is 20/20. Jan 6th really hung over the whole thing in a big way that definitely influenced choices made.
This wasn’t really about free speech though, it was about actions and if you blockade a city, waiting for the PM to resign, you should be not allowed to do that. If the Ontario Police Force or Ottawa Police did their job at enforcing rules, the Feds wouldn’t have done anything.
What’s the limit on protesting? Can we all form a blockade around Pierre’s house and shout loudly until he quits as leader of the CPC?
I think the question is how far along you are to the October crisis before the emergencies act can be deemed to be constitutional? Does it take one murdered minister to invoke it? Or should it be invoked before it happens?
Well if you are indigenous you can have RCMP bash in your door with an axe and arrest you without a warrant, because you are a protestor. And also arrest media trying to film removing protestors. But white truckers are fine to do what they want.
Do you know how close it was?
Worse things have happened with less gunpowder in the keg.
Also
And now all Mr polievre will talk about is Hair Guy’s Illegal Emergency because after 8 years they finally have something to whine about that’s (been made) true.
Nah. It was called for. On all accounts.
Intimidation and a siege right at the heart of our nation’s democracy is a national emergency.
So what was the right answer? Ford already abandoned his responsibilty. How was the federal government suppose to react after weeks of protest? Can we park an 18 wheeler at the judges home and air horn the neighbourhood for months and expect no one to react?
ya i don’t get this. Ford does not and no premier should give the OPP orders. They can pass laws and expect the OPP to enforce them but elected members are not the boss of our police force.
And if those bosses neglect their duty, tough shit. Right? No recourse.
like all jobs the contract comes up for review. Its worth noting that the current boss is not the one that Rob wanted.
The inability to deal with this without declaring wartime level powers is entirely on them. I was blown away that anything short of storming the Parliament Buildings warranted this declaration.
I had no love for the “freedom” wackos, but jfc, this was embarassing to see.
On the police, and provincial government, 100%. They say around with their thumb up their ass, pandering to people bring our.capital to a half, while the truckers pissed in doors, honked Horns all day long, and blocked trade.
The emergencies act is a drastic measure, but this situation warranted it. If the RCMP or the province had done SOMETHING earlier, it wouldn’t have been needed.
“on them” where “them” are the municipal and provincial police forces.
Well that will certainly go to appeal. I watched (and listened, through their Zello channels) that entire event very closely. I was still laid off from covid at that point so I had the time. The local authorities were doing sweet FA and the federal government was absolutely justified in doing what it did. After 3+ weeks of no action by local authorities and thus no movement with clearing this siege the feds stepped in and cleared it up in a day or two. That shows how little resolve the convoy participants really had and thus how little the Ottawa police were interested in doing their jobs.
Now now, the cops were doing something: they tried to break up the Ottawa people at Billing’s Bridge who were preventing more trucks from getting downtown.
The cops weren’t sitting on their asses, they were complicit.
I agree, as someone who also did follow it closely they had no choice. They had a bunch of people acting against them politically, and stopping anything from being resolved.
I was suprised to hear this and fully expect a reversal on appeal.
Stealing this from a post on Mastodon, just to provide some clarity.
The judge said he would have supported invoking #EmergenciesAct had he been sitting at the cabinet table. With the information they had at the time, Cabinet did the right thing.
It’s only with the benefit of hindsight, which the federal cabinet did not have, that the judge determines they erred.
Invoking the Act in #Ottawa & #Ontario was proper. He merely disputes invoking it nation-wide.