Do they have any other option than to stick to their guns on this one? That’s sold the XBox Series S as having feature parity with the Series X. If they go against that now, then they’ve engaged in false advertising and will immediately get slapped with a huge lawsuit and/or fine, plus all the negative PR that comes from it.
They’re stuck until the next console generation, which is a long way out. And I wonder if PS5 will continue to gain ground against XBox for the rest of the generation as a result.
It will be interesting to see if they continue with their two-model tiering next gen, but I’m guessing they won’t.
The Series S will become an ever bigger anchor going forward. Eventually, there will be 3rd party games that just choose not to bother with the Xbox at all because of the Series S.
We’re only a few years into the new console generation and problems are also starting. It’s definitely going to get worse as more demanding games start coming out. Microsoft is really going to have to loosen their parity policy, or it’s going to hold either the entire generation back or them back.
Given that there’s plenty of PCs out there with lower spec than the S they still need to scale their game for, I doubt it will be as big an issue as people make out. BG3 is an odd outlier as they’ve put a splitscreenode in the console game that the PC version doesn’t have and that’s what’s holding things up.
Given that there’s plenty of PCs out there with lower spec than the S
Not when it comes to memory. The Xbox SS only has 10GB combined system memory and VRAM. The PC version of BG3 requires 8GB system memory plus 4GB of VRAM, so the SS is a couple gigabytes short in total.
Going by the Steam hardware survey, 95% of PCs have at least 8GB of system memory, with 16GB being easily the most common amount. 80% have at least 4GB of VRAM, with 8GB being the most common amount.
For obvious reasons I can’t post it publicly before MS discloses it. They are currently migrating more and more GDK docs to the public site, so I wouldn’t be surprised if the link became publicly available soon, but currently one still needs to register a dev account to access it.
Since these Xbox consoles came out, maybe even since Xbox One X, they’ve been talking about being “beyond generations”. I figured that would result in more periodic updates, probably with two simultaneous lines of Xboxes, X and S, but it hasn’t turned out that way. So far, it’s just seemed to mean that you don’t have to deal with Sony’s BS around PS4 and PS5 versions of the same game.
They should’ve figured out a way to communicate that the Series S will last until next gen, but the Series X would get more cross-gen games when next gen launches
Or they should’ve known that RAM is hard to scale on and they could’ve included an extra 2GB or so in the Series S lol
But I’m actually a believer that BG3 could be made to run on XSS even with split screen, it’s just gonna take more work and reduced graphics maybe audio quality too, and smarter data streaming from the SSD
Or they should’ve known that RAM is hard to scale on and they could’ve included an extra 2GB or so in the Series S lol
They really should have. It’s got 2Gb less than the One, which is where all these problems are coming from.
And as for getting BG3 running on the S, well, Microsoft has had to send out some of their engineers to help Larian figure out how to do it, so I doubt it’s going to be an easy job.
Wasn’t the general idea that direct storage means data moves from the SDD to the GPU skipping RAM, hence the need for less. It’s possible Larian aren’t used to dealing with direct storage since the PC doesn’t have it in most systems even now and so just brute forced things the old way on PS5? That’s why MS engineers have to go and show them how to use the new architecture.
On PC, the point is that you can skip RAM and go straight to VRAM. You still need the assets in memory while you use them. It’s faster but it’s not that much faster. With unified memory there isn’t that distinction. That’s one of the ways consoles can be better optimized than a general PC build.
Having just looked up the equivalent PC specs, it really doesn’t seem like a lot of power.
I imagine the game can run “fine”, but they probably need to do a fair bit of optimisation or people will complain about the way it looks and frame rate.
One of the benefits consoles used to have was everyone running the same hardware, but they’ve lost that now and I don’t imagine console players will be as accepting of lower quality as PC players with low end GPUs.
The main issue, and what’s keeping Baldur’s Gate off it, is a RAM issue. It’s got less RAM that the One, and things like dual screen need more RAM than the S has.
It’s just a business decision. Enough players have strong enough hardware that the invest into optimizing for weaker hardware isn’t likely to pay off.
If there is a weaker platform with lots of players, like the Switch, that can make optimizing financially viable, but obviously, it depends on how much optimizing you would have to do…
Most of time, it’s the juggle of time and resource available to you, but there is still a hard limit otherwise how about demand BG3 to also run on my antique knockoff NES? Cause they are too lazy to accommodate the hardware limitation? How about my smart watch? Or someone else’s smart fridge?
Don’t get me wrong, what you said in some cases but most likely the devs are told to push it out instead of make the game run better(on the target platforms.) There are no secret sauce to otherwise fit a game like BG3 to previous gen consoles.
Last, if you are really good at this optimization thing the whole industry will pay good money for your skill set.
From what they’ve said the game can run fine, but the issue is getting local split screen on the S working because it has such a small amount of RAM available
If they go against that now, then they’ve engaged in false advertising and will immediately get slapped with a huge lawsuit and/or fine,
No they won’t. Companies aren’t beholden to their commitments from advertisements in perpetuity. In the first place, someone would need to sue, or begin a class action. That’d drag out for years, and almost certainly lose.
I’d be furious with any company if they pulled that sort of shit with a product I owned.
On the other hand, feature parity means that the full potential of the X because everything also has to run on the S. So all the things that the X can do that the S can’t will, probably, not be used much, if at all, going forward, just to avoid this kind of hassle.
Great deal for people who bought the S, but sucks shit for people who paid a couple hundred bucks more for the X, for features that simply won’t be utilized.
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Do they have any other option than to stick to their guns on this one? That’s sold the XBox Series S as having feature parity with the Series X. If they go against that now, then they’ve engaged in false advertising and will immediately get slapped with a huge lawsuit and/or fine, plus all the negative PR that comes from it.
They’re stuck until the next console generation, which is a long way out. And I wonder if PS5 will continue to gain ground against XBox for the rest of the generation as a result.
It will be interesting to see if they continue with their two-model tiering next gen, but I’m guessing they won’t.
They can change course on advertised usage if they can argue that they had a genuine intention for longevity and only changed course after.
The Series S will become an ever bigger anchor going forward. Eventually, there will be 3rd party games that just choose not to bother with the Xbox at all because of the Series S.
We’re only a few years into the new console generation and problems are also starting. It’s definitely going to get worse as more demanding games start coming out. Microsoft is really going to have to loosen their parity policy, or it’s going to hold either the entire generation back or them back.
Given that there’s plenty of PCs out there with lower spec than the S they still need to scale their game for, I doubt it will be as big an issue as people make out. BG3 is an odd outlier as they’ve put a splitscreenode in the console game that the PC version doesn’t have and that’s what’s holding things up.
Not when it comes to memory. The Xbox SS only has 10GB combined system memory and VRAM. The PC version of BG3 requires 8GB system memory plus 4GB of VRAM, so the SS is a couple gigabytes short in total.
Going by the Steam hardware survey, 95% of PCs have at least 8GB of system memory, with 16GB being easily the most common amount. 80% have at least 4GB of VRAM, with 8GB being the most common amount.
Apparently Microsoft wants games to run with only 6GB of shared memory in case there are too many background stuff taking up ram
That number is - well, let’s just say, the correct value can be found in the docs here: https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/gaming/gdk/_content/gc/intro/whatsnew/archive/whats-new-2206
“Access to this topic requires membership in an NDA developer program”
So, uh, what’s the correct value, then?
For obvious reasons I can’t post it publicly before MS discloses it. They are currently migrating more and more GDK docs to the public site, so I wouldn’t be surprised if the link became publicly available soon, but currently one still needs to register a dev account to access it.
I’m pretty sure split screen is supported on PC?
I didn’t even see a local multiplayer option when I was playing on the deck?
It’s available on PC, but not on Steam Deck.
How did they manage that, the Deck doesn’t usually get bespoke builds.
It’s not a bespoke build; they just disabled the function on Steam Deck.
https://x.com/cromwelp/status/1685989272099213312?s=46&t=EUtgwMByNj4sQbVP9INV-Q
And for the record, you can run split screen on the Steam Deck; it’s just not supported.
Valve lets you identify the deck. It’s probably just a flag that hides the reference to it.
What? The PC version has split screen.
How to Activate the Split Screen on PC in Baldur’s Gate 3
Since these Xbox consoles came out, maybe even since Xbox One X, they’ve been talking about being “beyond generations”. I figured that would result in more periodic updates, probably with two simultaneous lines of Xboxes, X and S, but it hasn’t turned out that way. So far, it’s just seemed to mean that you don’t have to deal with Sony’s BS around PS4 and PS5 versions of the same game.
They should’ve figured out a way to communicate that the Series S will last until next gen, but the Series X would get more cross-gen games when next gen launches
Or they should’ve known that RAM is hard to scale on and they could’ve included an extra 2GB or so in the Series S lol
But I’m actually a believer that BG3 could be made to run on XSS even with split screen, it’s just gonna take more work and reduced graphics maybe audio quality too, and smarter data streaming from the SSD
They really should have. It’s got 2Gb less than the One, which is where all these problems are coming from.
And as for getting BG3 running on the S, well, Microsoft has had to send out some of their engineers to help Larian figure out how to do it, so I doubt it’s going to be an easy job.
Wasn’t the general idea that direct storage means data moves from the SDD to the GPU skipping RAM, hence the need for less. It’s possible Larian aren’t used to dealing with direct storage since the PC doesn’t have it in most systems even now and so just brute forced things the old way on PS5? That’s why MS engineers have to go and show them how to use the new architecture.
On PC, the point is that you can skip RAM and go straight to VRAM. You still need the assets in memory while you use them. It’s faster but it’s not that much faster. With unified memory there isn’t that distinction. That’s one of the ways consoles can be better optimized than a general PC build.
I feel like developers have completely given up on optimizing games. Any game should be able to run on the SS. Most games can run on last gen consoles
Having just looked up the equivalent PC specs, it really doesn’t seem like a lot of power.
I imagine the game can run “fine”, but they probably need to do a fair bit of optimisation or people will complain about the way it looks and frame rate.
One of the benefits consoles used to have was everyone running the same hardware, but they’ve lost that now and I don’t imagine console players will be as accepting of lower quality as PC players with low end GPUs.
The main issue, and what’s keeping Baldur’s Gate off it, is a RAM issue. It’s got less RAM that the One, and things like dual screen need more RAM than the S has.
It’s just a business decision. Enough players have strong enough hardware that the invest into optimizing for weaker hardware isn’t likely to pay off.
If there is a weaker platform with lots of players, like the Switch, that can make optimizing financially viable, but obviously, it depends on how much optimizing you would have to do…
Most of time, it’s the juggle of time and resource available to you, but there is still a hard limit otherwise how about demand BG3 to also run on my antique knockoff NES? Cause they are too lazy to accommodate the hardware limitation? How about my smart watch? Or someone else’s smart fridge?
Don’t get me wrong, what you said in some cases but most likely the devs are told to push it out instead of make the game run better(on the target platforms.) There are no secret sauce to otherwise fit a game like BG3 to previous gen consoles.
Last, if you are really good at this optimization thing the whole industry will pay good money for your skill set.
Well it worked for Skyrim? They released that for my niece’s speak and spell.
From what they’ve said the game can run fine, but the issue is getting local split screen on the S working because it has such a small amount of RAM available
Yep. The Series S gives games even less RAM than the One X did.
No they won’t. Companies aren’t beholden to their commitments from advertisements in perpetuity. In the first place, someone would need to sue, or begin a class action. That’d drag out for years, and almost certainly lose.
Even without a lawsuit, is it worth the hassle?
They’d lose a lot of trust in case they ever wanted to do something similar in future.
I’d be furious with any company if they pulled that sort of shit with a product I owned.
On the other hand, feature parity means that the full potential of the X because everything also has to run on the S. So all the things that the X can do that the S can’t will, probably, not be used much, if at all, going forward, just to avoid this kind of hassle.
Great deal for people who bought the S, but sucks shit for people who paid a couple hundred bucks more for the X, for features that simply won’t be utilized.