U.S. President Joe Biden said on Tuesday that Israel is losing support over its "indiscriminate" bombing of Gaza and that Benjamin Netanyahu should change, exposing a new rift in relations with the Israeli prime minister.
I love how a country is allowed to just get away with killing children and UN workers and doctors and journalists but we condemn countries that do the same thing like Russia. It makes no sense that Israel should get a free pass, all it does is expose a huge double standard
Isreal’s main exports are cutting-edge technology found nowhere else in the world. Russia’s main export is oil. Western and European Union countries were fine getting their oil elsewhere, but they absolutely do not want to give up advanced tech. Especially since there will always be other countries that don’t care and will continue trading anyway.
It’s security software - firewalls, VPNs, that sort of thing. It’s not that it’s not available anywhere else, but the Israeli stuff was always considered among the best before this conflict kicked off.
Israel sells billions worth of weapons a year, sometimes to repressive regimes like the Myanmar junta.
It also innovates quite heavily in that space.
I have been noticing a number of doctors mentioning a new kind of burn on children in Gaza. Israel routinely deploys new weapons there, and this may well be a new example of testing experimental weapons in Gaza
Russia bombed Kiev for the hell of it, not even pretending there was a military objective. Russia also is conscripting Ukrainians to fight against their fellow countrymen as cannon-fodder on the front line. It is kidnapping children into Russia.
The whole point of the article is Biden criticizing Israel for going too far in their mission to eradicate Hamas. He even criticized US for invading Afghanistan.
He criticizes their war crimes with one hand but with the other hand he gives them billions of dollars to help them commit more.
Netanyahu said in a statement on Tuesday that Israel had received “full backing” from the U.S. for its ground incursion into Gaza and that Washington had blocked “international pressure to stop the war.”
Bit of a tangent, but I find it insane that the US spent over 2000 billion to fight the war in Afghanistan, but congress is unwilling to authorise giving the Ukrainians 60 billion. A relatively small amount, that means Ukrainians can keep fighting Russia, decreasing the likelihood of American troops ever having to get involved in a war in Europe.
Ah, but from where I sit (a long way from the US), it looks more like a pissing contest between the Republicans to see who can be the most terrible human being in government, than it does look like any sort of actual policy or principal.
It’s not about helping Ukraine, or avoiding the mistakes of Afghanistan - it’s about trying to make Biden (and/or ‘The Dems’ in general) look bad, even if that involves civilian deaths.
Are they evil, Russian agents or just absolute clowns? It doesn’t really matter, does it. The end result is the same.
From someone in the US, smack dab in the middle of very dense Republican land (Oklahoma,) I want you to know that you’ve nailed it! You’re spot on. I wish you were exaggerating, lol.
I once did the sums to calculate that USA could have afforded a run a gun buyback scheme (like Australia) rather than invade Iraq, you know… to cut down on Americans killing Americans.
IDF are the good guys, just like the Ukrainian army is. That doesn’t mean that every single individual in either army are angels or that every operation is virtuous, just that their overall intentions are just.
An important question: What would the world look like if these guys won versus if they lost?
If Ukraine had initially launched an attack on Russia and killed 1,200 mainlycivilians, taken 200+ hostages and thrown in a bit of organised gang rape, I doubt Ukraine would be receiving its current level of support, and there may even have been some support for retaliatory action by Russia.
That’s not to say that Israel’s current appalling treatment of Palestinian civilians is justified
Except it wasn’t Palestine that attacked, it was a group disassociated with the Palestinian Authority, that Israel itself funds so it can justify the “war” to favor the arms dealers and distract the constituents of the terrible administration they’re receiving.
The two conflicts are not even remotely comparable.
Given that I was replying to a message drawing equivalence, you’ll see that I was saying that they weren’t really equivalent, in that Ukraine hadn’t mounted an attack on Russian civilians. Hope that helps.
Let’s ignore how many people israel has killed, they need to kill more, and let’s also go ahead an label everyone who says “too much” a hamas supporter
Then you go here and it’s again 90%
Let’s not even call hamas terrorist, more like freedom-fighters with some friendly rape and friendly fire thrown in.
Here in the fediverse there are many people with opinions similar to mine, i.e we are on the side of civillians, not any of the belligerents in this hellscape of war crimes.
If it makes you feel any better, I got banned for my first and only comment there (not even a post) which was a link and an explanation of the high credentials of the author. Like this…
Hersh first gained recognition in 1969 for exposing the My Lai Massacre and its cover-up during the Vietnam War, for which he received the 1970 Pulitzer Prize for International Reporting.
Ah, so only beehaw prohibits downvotes, not other Lemmy instances. TIL.
I guess even what I showed you may have gone negative if downvotes were allowed. The person I was arguing with wasn’t being nasty about it, just incredibly obstinate.
I worry about a return to Nazi style anti-semitism (though I hate Likud) which the polarized discussions are leading us towards. It is arrogant to think it could never happen again.
Some Lemmy instances have downvotes, some don’t. It varies by instance. I think most instances have/allow downvotes. Beehaw & Blahaj are two bigger ones that don’t that I can think of off of the top of my head.
Also agreed with your last bit. I’m nervous about it, too. I wish people would just be decent and… not suck, lol.
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I love how a country is allowed to just get away with killing children and UN workers and doctors and journalists but we condemn countries that do the same thing like Russia. It makes no sense that Israel should get a free pass, all it does is expose a huge double standard
Isreal’s main exports are cutting-edge technology found nowhere else in the world. Russia’s main export is oil. Western and European Union countries were fine getting their oil elsewhere, but they absolutely do not want to give up advanced tech. Especially since there will always be other countries that don’t care and will continue trading anyway.
Israel ain’t Taiwan. What tech do you think is indispensable there?
Mostly software based tech. Israel is leading in the field of “legal” spyware for example.
Extralegal!
You have a point there.
It’s security software - firewalls, VPNs, that sort of thing. It’s not that it’s not available anywhere else, but the Israeli stuff was always considered among the best before this conflict kicked off.
It’s also weapons. Many of which are sold as “battle tested” because they were tested in Palestine.
Maybe they mean this sort of thing.
Bioscience and Military tech are also fields Isreali companies excel at.
I often hear of Bioscience “breakthroughs” from Israel which amount to nothing but hype.
What military tech apart from Iron Dome? (which protects against crappy home made rockets)
Israel sells billions worth of weapons a year, sometimes to repressive regimes like the Myanmar junta.
It also innovates quite heavily in that space.
I have been noticing a number of doctors mentioning a new kind of burn on children in Gaza. Israel routinely deploys new weapons there, and this may well be a new example of testing experimental weapons in Gaza
search for Israeli Nobel prize winners.
and multiple countries want to have their hand on iron dome including Ukraine so where ur going with this?
Russia has the right to self defense.
Do you condemn NATO?
/s
False equivalence.
Russia bombed Kiev for the hell of it, not even pretending there was a military objective. Russia also is conscripting Ukrainians to fight against their fellow countrymen as cannon-fodder on the front line. It is kidnapping children into Russia.
We could go an have a piss-fight between the warcrimes of Russia and the warcrimes of Israel.
The US can be the bad guy in one conflict while be on the good side on another. Imperialism is bad, whether it’s Russia or the US doing it.
Also, Hamas are war criminals as well. No good guys fighting there ATM.
The whole point of the article is Biden criticizing Israel for going too far in their mission to eradicate Hamas. He even criticized US for invading Afghanistan.
He criticizes their war crimes with one hand but with the other hand he gives them billions of dollars to help them commit more.
Bit of a tangent, but I find it insane that the US spent over 2000 billion to fight the war in Afghanistan, but congress is unwilling to authorise giving the Ukrainians 60 billion. A relatively small amount, that means Ukrainians can keep fighting Russia, decreasing the likelihood of American troops ever having to get involved in a war in Europe.
Ah, but from where I sit (a long way from the US), it looks more like a pissing contest between the Republicans to see who can be the most terrible human being in government, than it does look like any sort of actual policy or principal.
It’s not about helping Ukraine, or avoiding the mistakes of Afghanistan - it’s about trying to make Biden (and/or ‘The Dems’ in general) look bad, even if that involves civilian deaths.
Are they evil, Russian agents or just absolute clowns? It doesn’t really matter, does it. The end result is the same.
From someone in the US, smack dab in the middle of very dense Republican land (Oklahoma,) I want you to know that you’ve nailed it! You’re spot on. I wish you were exaggerating, lol.
I once did the sums to calculate that USA could have afforded a run a gun buyback scheme (like Australia) rather than invade Iraq, you know… to cut down on Americans killing Americans.
I did the sums, and the US would have been able to fund a large moonbase for the next century, mine asteroids AND seriously begin colonising Mars.
But instead of becoming an interplanetary power, the US chose to blow up brown farmers.
And accomplished nothing for the people there, within 2 months it was as bad as it ever was before the US came.
Kubrick’s 2001, A Space Odyssey vs Dr Strangelove
But that 2000 billion went directly into the military industrial complex. Ka-ching.
Is the same true for that 60 billion?
IDF are the good guys, just like the Ukrainian army is. That doesn’t mean that every single individual in either army are angels or that every operation is virtuous, just that their overall intentions are just.
An important question: What would the world look like if these guys won versus if they lost?
Narrator: …they weren’t.
I’m positively surprised ur not downvoted to hell for saying that I must say
Perhaps majority of the people who hate my comments about Israel vs Hamas have already blocked me
that was funny and I thank u for that :D
There are no downvotes on Beehaw.
ohhhh that makes total sense now thanks!
It’s true, there are no downvotes on Beehaw. It doesn’t accept them or federate them.
However, people from other instances see a downvote button and it registers downvotes - but only from people on their own instance.
@fosforus and @idiocracy are probably looking at those figures and mistaking it for over-all numbers.
IMO the only “good guys” fighting there are the civilians “fighting” to survive. Not Hamas and not the IDF. Neither care about the innocent.
Which is more important, ends or means?
Ends are more important.
I can prove to you it is not.
If my end is to have a million dollars, am I justified in killing whoever I want to get it?
If someone rapes your sister, are you justified in killing their whole family to get to them?
If someone kills your daughter, are you justified in burning down a city in revenge?
Oh, I didn’t realize you asked “do ends always justify the means?”. My mistake.
No, a simple unistandard. I’ll illustrate with a meme.
If Ukraine had initially launched an attack on Russia and killed 1,200 mainlycivilians, taken 200+ hostages and thrown in a bit of organised gang rape, I doubt Ukraine would be receiving its current level of support, and there may even have been some support for retaliatory action by Russia.
That’s not to say that Israel’s current appalling treatment of Palestinian civilians is justified
Except it wasn’t Palestine that attacked, it was a group disassociated with the Palestinian Authority, that Israel itself funds so it can justify the “war” to favor the arms dealers and distract the constituents of the terrible administration they’re receiving.
The two conflicts are not even remotely comparable.
That was largely my point.
You have a weird way of getting to it, seeing as you compared the two right out of the door.
Given that I was replying to a message drawing equivalence, you’ll see that I was saying that they weren’t really equivalent, in that Ukraine hadn’t mounted an attack on Russian civilians. Hope that helps.
It’s crazy. On reddit, it’s 90%
Then you go here and it’s again 90%
I don’t agree with this characterization at all.
Here in the fediverse there are many people with opinions similar to mine, i.e we are on the side of civillians, not any of the belligerents in this hellscape of war crimes.
You are describing r/Worldnews not other Reddit subs.
And Lemmy has been 50-50, with very little actual personal attacking.
what do u mean 50-50? give me one thread here that isn’t anti Israel and with massive upvote/downvote ratio
https://beehaw.org/comment/1864942
Worldnews mods are clearly fascist. They banned me for being skeptical of IDF sources
If it makes you feel any better, I got banned for my first and only comment there (not even a post) which was a link and an explanation of the high credentials of the author. Like this…
https://seymourhersh.substack.com/p/how-america-took-out-the-nord-stream
Hersh first gained recognition in 1969 for exposing the My Lai Massacre and its cover-up during the Vietnam War, for which he received the 1970 Pulitzer Prize for International Reporting.
Yeah they are clearly forcing a narrative there.
I wouldn’t be surprised if someone from IDF social media team is involved in some way, either as a mod or paying the mods handsomely
Wut? I’ve not seen a single pro Israel thread here.
https://beehaw.org/comment/1864942
Not moving the goalposts but I meant Lemmy in general, not beehaw, cause no downvotes
But I admit you supplied a link to my request. I stand.partially informed
Ah, so only beehaw prohibits downvotes, not other Lemmy instances. TIL.
I guess even what I showed you may have gone negative if downvotes were allowed. The person I was arguing with wasn’t being nasty about it, just incredibly obstinate.
I worry about a return to Nazi style anti-semitism (though I hate Likud) which the polarized discussions are leading us towards. It is arrogant to think it could never happen again.
Some Lemmy instances have downvotes, some don’t. It varies by instance. I think most instances have/allow downvotes. Beehaw & Blahaj are two bigger ones that don’t that I can think of off of the top of my head.
Also agreed with your last bit. I’m nervous about it, too. I wish people would just be decent and… not suck, lol.
I do not visit worldnews. This description fits to both /r/europe and /r/de.
And regarding lemmy, maybe on other instances, but I’m only on beehaw.
Haven’t visited those subs.
I might be describing beehaw rather than other Lemmy instances. That was why I joined beehaw, because it promised civility.
As I said, I only know of beehaw as well. No personal attacks, but also nowhere near 50-50 sentinment.
50-50 here
removed by mod