Michael Orlitzky was not having a good day with his laundry. First CSC Serviceworks, a laundry management company, replaced all of the machines in his building with new coin-op or app-powered ones. The card reading machines had been an issue for years because the cards would stop working and the recharge machine would steal dollar bills, Orlitzky said. Now he had another enemy with its own quirks to get used to. Plus, CSC had replaced the machines about a week ahead of schedule, meaning that any cash on his or others’ laundry cards was now worthless and unusable.
Then, one of the new machines ate his quarters. The first machine was stuck on the cold setting, and he had to pay another $2 and move all of his belongings to another machine. He called CSC customer service and was on hold for an hour. CSC eventually told him to get a refund through the company’s website, which in turn insisted he install CSC’s app to proceed.
“That was the day I decided laundry would be free,” Orlitzky told 404 Media in an email.
Orlitzky then discovered multiple bypasses to CSC machines that allow him to wash his clothes for free. Since then, he’s been pretty quiet about the whole thing. Orlitzky published a brief write-up of his escapades on his personal website last year, but hasn’t shared it on social media. Some people in his building know his secret, but that’s about it. That is, until now, with Orlitzky due to speak at the DEF CON hacker conference in August about how he found infinite money cheats for CSC laundry machines. The talk is called “Laundering Money.”
He was hacking the machine. But isn’t it stealing and illegal, if he short circuit the machine? I mean its like showing someone how to get free apple, by going in a shop and stealing without anyone notices it. Or by hacking into a server and ordering a meal for free. I don’t see how this is any different.
That’s a different issue. The machine was obviously defective, not stealing your money. And even if someone steal from you, doesn’t change the fact you stole too. Someone doing something illegal does not give you the rights doing something illegal too.
And to a point I agree. But the way the story reads, it sounds like not much was done with the new machines after installation. We’ve all had money taken from faulty vending machines. But the stakes are slightly higher in this.
But isn’t he abusing it further than just getting his money back? If you know a weak point on a machine and use it just so you give yourself the right to abuse it, is criminal in my opinion. The first time is probably an accident and taking back what is his own. Now he has the knowledge and is going with the intention to abuse a defect.
Let’s say a shop website has an issue and one time the site was faulty and did take your money without anything in return. Then the hacker decides to break the law and get his money back, somewhat understandable, but not legally right. Still stealing. Then he realizes this loophole would be abused to make more money and nobody would notice. That’s not okay anymore.
Or do I read it wrong here? The above analogy hopefully explains how I view this situation.
Some businesses mess up… and understand that their clients need to feel like they’re being treated fairly in order to keep earning money from them, which means giving their money back, an apology, and maybe some free credit or discount coupons.
Other businesses, think they can abuse their users freely… until they end up pissing the wrong guy. Sometimes it’s a guy with a spray can, sometimes it’s a guy with a brick, and sometimes it’s someone capable of abusing them back.
You can call it illegal, it might even be morally wrong and excessive… but that’s what happens when you abuse people more than what they’re willing to take. Action and reaction, fuck around and find out, and all that.
Let’s say a website has an issue and was one time faulty. Clients lost money. Then the site owner is notified of the fault by multiple clients.
The site owner uses some words to placate them and goes on with their day.
The site owner then makes some changes to the site, meaning they did have the time and money to pay a developer to update the site, but decides to keep the previous bug in, as a feature, implemented in a different way, this time better at stealing their money.
Sure, the obvious solution is to use another site (the laundromat down the road).
Meh, it is illegal, but personally I don’t find it immoral. Laundry machines like this are just another way for landlords to extract money from their tenants for basic needs. They have them in a captive situation and should be providing either hookups in unit or free laundry facilities.
‘Free laundry machines’ could essentially be included in the rent, provided laundry machines are used properly and intentional damage paid for. I would be okay with CCTV being employed to ensure this. An extra $10 for water usage, and everyone uses their own detergent.
For me, rents are already pure profit for most apartment buildings, so they should just include it. I do agree there would need to be some incentive to keep them in order, but CCTV seems a little invasive. Not sure what the answer is, but I don’t think landlords would do it any how
Edit: By “For me” I meant in my opinion, not that I run apartments. Tired brain…
I agree CCTV is a bit invasive…depends on the tenants! If I were a landlord with some tenants of concern, I’d have washing machines facing away from CCTV so no laundry is on camera!
Hookups for one, you need a inlet and drain for the washer and a vent for the dryer. A place to put it as well. They are big and bulky. You can get ventless combo machines, but still have the issue of water hookups and space.
At least in the US, hookups are a big issue. You can hook the inlet up to a faucet sometimes, but the drain needs somewhere to go. Most dryers need a vent to the outside too, so that has to exist. I have never seen a lease that would let you add hookups either
Dryers with vents are ancient my dude. I empty the reservoir on mine every once in a while and it’s just plugged in the wall. I literally am not even able to buy a vented dryer anymore because they’re so obsolete.
And if you’re able to hook up water to a faucet, you sure are able to hook up a drain.
Dryers with vents are very much still the norm around here, and I am not even in the middle of nowhere (unless you consider Seattle the middle of nowhere). Hell, gas dryers are not uncommon.
Ventless dryers are great, but they also cost twice as much as vented dryers. Most folks I know who live in apartments don’t have that much extra cash. Meanwhile vented dryers can be found on craigslist for free very frequently
Lmao that’s insane dude. I can get a modern dryer without a vent second hand for like 90 euros. What a weird and exclusively American problem. I learned today you guys are way behind in laundry technology.
I just plug my dryer in a normal outlet and empty a reservoir every once in a while. You can easily run a water line to a washer, that’s really a non issue.
Space might be scarce, sure. I’ve just never seen anything like what is being described in this thread except for American movies and such. Seems like such an easy thing to just not participate in.
So, I guess 20a dryers aren’t super common here in the States.
Also, where I grew up apartment complexes don’t allow you to run water lines. I have heard that leases in New York City allow for more modifications, so it could be a regional thing.
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He was hacking the machine. But isn’t it stealing and illegal, if he short circuit the machine? I mean its like showing someone how to get free apple, by going in a shop and stealing without anyone notices it. Or by hacking into a server and ordering a meal for free. I don’t see how this is any different.
Isn’t a machine taking your money and not receiving anything from it isn’t?
That’s a different issue. The machine was obviously defective, not stealing your money. And even if someone steal from you, doesn’t change the fact you stole too. Someone doing something illegal does not give you the rights doing something illegal too.
And to a point I agree. But the way the story reads, it sounds like not much was done with the new machines after installation. We’ve all had money taken from faulty vending machines. But the stakes are slightly higher in this.
But isn’t he abusing it further than just getting his money back? If you know a weak point on a machine and use it just so you give yourself the right to abuse it, is criminal in my opinion. The first time is probably an accident and taking back what is his own. Now he has the knowledge and is going with the intention to abuse a defect.
Let’s say a shop website has an issue and one time the site was faulty and did take your money without anything in return. Then the hacker decides to break the law and get his money back, somewhat understandable, but not legally right. Still stealing. Then he realizes this loophole would be abused to make more money and nobody would notice. That’s not okay anymore.
Or do I read it wrong here? The above analogy hopefully explains how I view this situation.
Some businesses mess up… and understand that their clients need to feel like they’re being treated fairly in order to keep earning money from them, which means giving their money back, an apology, and maybe some free credit or discount coupons.
Other businesses, think they can abuse their users freely… until they end up pissing the wrong guy. Sometimes it’s a guy with a spray can, sometimes it’s a guy with a brick, and sometimes it’s someone capable of abusing them back.
You can call it illegal, it might even be morally wrong and excessive… but that’s what happens when you abuse people more than what they’re willing to take. Action and reaction, fuck around and find out, and all that.
You’re right, but at the same time.
Let’s say a website has an issue and was one time faulty. Clients lost money. Then the site owner is notified of the fault by multiple clients. The site owner uses some words to placate them and goes on with their day.
The site owner then makes some changes to the site, meaning they did have the time and money to pay a developer to update the site, but decides to keep the previous bug in, as a feature, implemented in a different way, this time better at stealing their money.
Sure, the obvious solution is to use another site (the laundromat down the road).
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Meh, it is illegal, but personally I don’t find it immoral. Laundry machines like this are just another way for landlords to extract money from their tenants for basic needs. They have them in a captive situation and should be providing either hookups in unit or free laundry facilities.
‘Free laundry machines’ could essentially be included in the rent, provided laundry machines are used properly and intentional damage paid for. I would be okay with CCTV being employed to ensure this. An extra $10 for water usage, and everyone uses their own detergent.
But does that make sense for capitalists?
For me, rents are already pure profit for most apartment buildings, so they should just include it. I do agree there would need to be some incentive to keep them in order, but CCTV seems a little invasive. Not sure what the answer is, but I don’t think landlords would do it any how
Edit: By “For me” I meant in my opinion, not that I run apartments. Tired brain…
Profit 😕
I agree CCTV is a bit invasive…depends on the tenants! If I were a landlord with some tenants of concern, I’d have washing machines facing away from CCTV so no laundry is on camera!
Sadly it is something that will probably never happen unless legislation is passed. At leas in the US
What stops a tenant from just getting a laundry machine themselves?
This is such an American thing.
Hookups for one, you need a inlet and drain for the washer and a vent for the dryer. A place to put it as well. They are big and bulky. You can get ventless combo machines, but still have the issue of water hookups and space.
If the issue is space, yeah that sucks. The hookups are a non issue though.
At least in the US, hookups are a big issue. You can hook the inlet up to a faucet sometimes, but the drain needs somewhere to go. Most dryers need a vent to the outside too, so that has to exist. I have never seen a lease that would let you add hookups either
Dryers with vents are ancient my dude. I empty the reservoir on mine every once in a while and it’s just plugged in the wall. I literally am not even able to buy a vented dryer anymore because they’re so obsolete.
And if you’re able to hook up water to a faucet, you sure are able to hook up a drain.
Not a dude.
Dryers with vents are very much still the norm around here, and I am not even in the middle of nowhere (unless you consider Seattle the middle of nowhere). Hell, gas dryers are not uncommon.
Ventless dryers are great, but they also cost twice as much as vented dryers. Most folks I know who live in apartments don’t have that much extra cash. Meanwhile vented dryers can be found on craigslist for free very frequently
Lmao that’s insane dude. I can get a modern dryer without a vent second hand for like 90 euros. What a weird and exclusively American problem. I learned today you guys are way behind in laundry technology.
Not all American apartments have water lines for the washer or 30a outlets for the dryer, much less dedicated space for the devices.
I just plug my dryer in a normal outlet and empty a reservoir every once in a while. You can easily run a water line to a washer, that’s really a non issue.
Space might be scarce, sure. I’ve just never seen anything like what is being described in this thread except for American movies and such. Seems like such an easy thing to just not participate in.
Might be to foreign to understand the problem.
So, I guess 20a dryers aren’t super common here in the States.
Also, where I grew up apartment complexes don’t allow you to run water lines. I have heard that leases in New York City allow for more modifications, so it could be a regional thing.
It’s not the same kind of stealing as stealing an apple or meal. Those remove the product, the material in its entirety.
The only devaluation washing does is in wear. And even less directly in the initial investment not being paid back upon use.
That’s concerns outside of morals of course. But stealing products isnt equateable to stealing usage.