Ice Cube has joined a long list of rappers who have cuddled up with conservative pundits and politicians
Several prominent Black rappers have recently aligned themselves with conservative politicians and media figures, which the author finds concerning. Rappers like Ice Cube, Kanye West, and Lil Wayne have sat down with Tucker Carlson and supported Donald Trump. However, the author argues that right-wing populism threatens Black communities. While some see these moves as opening dialogue, the author believes shared values around money, religion, and distrust in institutions have brought these unlikely groups together against vulnerable people. As the hip-hop industry has become more commercialized and corporate, rappers have also gained wealth and political influence, but supporting policies that don’t help everyday Black Americans. The author maintains that rap artists have a duty to use their platforms responsibly by advocating for politics that materially improve conditions in Black communities.
Not literally every single person who has a slightly dated social view is automatically a fascist. Yes if they vote for fascists then they are fascist, etc. But you have to have a little more nuance in life man.
Yeah, there are a lot of people in groups that one might think “Hey, you know the Republicans don’t like you and want to make your life miserable, right?” but are socially conservative and are not willing to let that stuff go. There are lots of predominantly Black or Hispanic churches from the “Fun is a sin,” denominations like the evangelicals, Pentecostals and Jehovah Witnesses whose members will not make any compromise on issues like abortion or gay rights. Even amongst the more secular people living in these communities can still be influenced by the folks that live around them. You also get a lot of people, especially older people, who are still on board with the law and order, tough on crime shtick, believing this is the sure way to get nice, safe communities to live in.
Religious, older and concerned with security doesn’t sound all that different to the stereotypical white conservatives that serve as the base for the Republicans in rural areas. They just need a bit more of a nudge to get there because they have to overcome some resistance to voting for a party that explicitly targets things that are important to them in other areas.
If, somehow, Republicans ever stopped being so freakin racist, they would have an unbeatable supermajority in the US. The racism of Republicans is the only thing uniting the various faction of the Democratic party. And it’s kind of funny that it’s very rarely talked about.
Social conservatism is a political philosophy and a variety of conservatism which places emphasis on traditional power structures over social pluralism.[1][2] Social conservatives organize in favor of duty, traditional values and social institutions, such as traditional family structures, gender roles, sexual relations, national patriotism, and religious traditions.[3][4] Social conservatism is usually skeptical of social change, instead tending to support the status quo concerning social issues.[4]
Yeah, that’s what I was thinking. I usually just call them bigots.
I was mostly talking about online or in personal situations but let’s address.
But I don’t get to choose who I interact with at work
For most people this is unfortunately true. I would encourage people, when possible, to seek employment at places that prevent bigots. For me, my giant employer has an Equal Opportunity office. You’ll get fired for being openly bigoted, and people have.
Do you have any family members with problematic views?
I talk to my dad only to make my mom happy. A few times a year. If he starts in on politics, I leave the room or at least ignore him. Non-engagement.
Do you open the door going, “Hey there, good to see you, bigot!”
That’s just it: if you have to interface with a known bigot, stick to professional topics. If they bring up bigotry, leave if you can, ignore if you can’t. Ostracizing people also includes minimal engagement. There’s also tacts for dog whistling “jokes” like pretending ignorance and asking them to explain.
But if you are frankly that just means you’re incredibly arrogant and/or have completely intractable view points
Yes. I am totally arrogant and intractable for not wanting to hear about how black people, gay people and women should have their rights taken away. I’ll listen to alternative viewpoints until they dive into fascism and similar. Then they can fuck off.
I promise you one of your current views will be dated one day and you will need to be able to change your mind.
Lol. No shit? I’ve been doing that since my early 20s. I look back at my past and regret. I can only do better if I change. I hope I realize quickly when my viewpoints are dated and offensive so I can change them.
I find it particularly offensive you are seemingly preaching civility in the face of oppression. Whenever you can get away with it, FUCK civility. Being polite while taking away rights is what American Conservatives have been doing since they lost the civil war. Don’t go lose your job, but nothing is stopping you in your personal lives from cutting out the cancer. Not doing so just enables them and that’s part of the problem.
Speaking of civility, I think you are both coming from a well meaning place and are making interesting points, but you are starting to make different points. It is even likely you are visualizing two totally different interactions when you are typing out your replies.
I could be wrong about that, but what is clear is that there is a lot of “you this” and “you that” in the discussion. As this is the nice Lemmy instance, please depersonalize the interaction or consider disengaging.
If I work with bigots, I don’t know about it, because I don’t talk politics at work. If I did find out I worked with a bigot, I’d make it clear that at cannot work together and ask for differing assignments.
If I find it that a stranger I’m dealing with is a bigot (also rare, because politics doesn’t come up often with strangers), I walk away. If a business owner is a bigot, I do not shop with them.
If I find bigots online, I block them.
The magical place I live is called being principled and using the tools at my disposal to ignore bigots.
@acastcandream@Neato You do not have to treat people with respect who do not treat others with respect. You do not have to advocate for civil rights for people who advocate for taking away civil rights. You do not have to tolerate intolerance. Tolerating intolerance makes society intolerant.
@acastcandream interacting with people does not imply tolerating them. Non-tolerance does not have to mean you instantly kick them out of any space you are in, when that would cause problems for you.
The lesson to be learned from Daryl Davis is that bigots should be ostracized, ignored, and de-platformed. Once their movement has been defanged and members isolated to their anti-social groups, you can more safely reach out to those groups to deprogram the people on the margins, if that’s what you want to do with your life.
The story would be very different if the KKK still held social and political power. A black man who didn’t support the KKK’s mission attending a KKK rally would not last very long. No one should give these people a platform, or treat them civilly when they’re spreading their brain worms in civil society.
Some methods will work for some, others for others. But what you said is the exact opposite of what he said. Like exactly opposite. Say what you want but please don’t misportray others messages.
Sometimes people’s message is different from their words. Please don’t tell me not to say it like it is. And please don’t try and shame the oppressed for not being civil to oppressors.
Every other type of social warfare is a smoke screen for class warfare. Even during the US civil war a lot of the issue the slaveowners had was that they were losing a huge amount of free labor which would put them at an economic disadvantage. The rich’s most successful invention is driving social wedge issues to distract from the class war that has been raging one-sided for millenia.
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Scrolling through Twitter a couple of weeks ago, I came across a clip of rightwing commentator Tucker Carlson interviewing a face I never thought I’d see on his platform: Ice Cube.
He’s joining a long list of rappers – Kanye West, Da Baby, Kodak Black, Lil Pump – who have all put themselves in dangerous proximity to conservative politicians even as rightwing populism threatens to destroy their communities.
Still, hip-hop legends like Jay-Z continue to peddle this demented lie because that is the very function of capitalism: keep the poorest in society busy providing cheap labor while they chase an impossible dream.
Say what you want about Democrats and what they have or haven’t done for Black people in America, but Kanye West campaigning for Trump wasn’t some stroke of genius – it was one of the most self-hating and objectively stupid moves that a person in his position could have made back in 2016.
I don’t blame Black people – burned by decades of generational disenfranchisement and then walloped over the head with the illusion of meritocracy – for trying to keep their place at the top no matter who they have to play nice with.
But romancing fearmongering xenophobes isn’t keeping us at the top, it’s digging a pitiful hole to the bottom, a new low from which Black people as a community will not recover if we don’t put a stop to it now.
Because they’re rich and insulated from (the worst of) racism now. Plus, a lot of these dudes really don’t want to change the status quo, since it got them where they are. Just look at how a lot of Black women get treated by Black men. Look at specifically how these rappers have treated Black women. They want the patriarchy in place, they just want to be at the top of it with white men, and now that they’re rich enough, they de facto are.
Ice Cube is a virulent unrepentant Farrakhan antisemite, he hates and disparages me, my family, and my people. Seeing him used as a source of amusement or toughness or worse hero worship, in a post, is terribly offensive.
I used to have a terribly racist Philippino neighbor and it blew my mind when he ranted about our Hispanic neighbors. Dude was an asshole in general. I am not sure if the racism was a product of that or the other way around.
@Aesthesiaphilia@trashhalo@downpunxx sadly there are a lot of weird silly people in “the left”, and the left is not good at driving them out, whereas everyone in the right has to mostly align to stay in the right.
“Why do members of this oppressed group side with oppressors” is a perennial question, like why are there so many Republican women when Republicans generally are anti-woman…
The answer is usually something like, if you’re high on the totem pole in several ways the fact that you’re not high on the totem pole in all ways might not matter so much to you.
If you’re rich, straight, cis, and male, but not white, you get a lot out of being rich and male and straight and cis, so you may support the group that protects the interests of rich, straight, male people, even though they might not be nice to black people, the fact that you’re on the same page on so many other axes means at least they’ll usually treat you OK cause you’re one of them in so many other ways.
See also: middle class white cis straight women, or Log Cabin republicans, or whatever.
Agreed on the basic appeal of core values, BUT there is another vector that the article sidesteps: unabashed tokenism. The extreme right knows it has a pretty nasty optics problem. Most of them try to avoid directly referencing white supremacists (even when their staff members give the game away). They all know that they walk in the shadow of a KKK costume. So, what’s a nice white politician to do? Get some Black people on stage who will blow right past the obvious racist motivations that has landed them in the limelight. Give them some cheap attention and some easy money. It’s a win-win for everyone on stage, that is until the token has worn out their usefulness.
This is pretty much how I see it. Cash can’t solve everything, but it sure smoothes out a heck of a lot of bumps along the way. A lot of people will look the other way if they feel they can get something out of you.
Anyone hard right I know is either a bigot, well to do, or both. When you can have a single income family or you’re a jerk, many of these issues don’t even make it on your radar. They just seem to not exist or be someone else’s problem.
This is why intersectionality is key and platitudes like “no war but the class war” miss the point entirely (and ignore all the people who are marginalised for reasons other than wealth and class).
Sure, the class war is essential, but without going to war against all other oppression too, you just end up with fucked up and oxymoronic shit like “national” socialism…
I think this is mostly just a case of becomming super rich. It happens a LOT to people who become wealthy, it tends to change your personality and the way you think, usually for the worse.
There have been many studies that confirm this. Though there are a few exceptions, the data shows rich people really do tend to behave like entitled assholes, think they know better, think they ARE better.
Of course. You start to be surrounded by hangers on, desperate to get in your good graces because we have a weird cult of celebrity and wealth.
Your entire world changes when people start to keep your surroundings favorable to your tastes and people only ever tell you “yes.” You start to believe that you are right all the time and your tastes are impeccable and your opinions fascinating. And then people like tucker Carlson will utilize that for his own ends, extending and utilizing that yes-man follower role to pervert your appearance or your fan base, to achieve something he’s always tried to achieve—but for his own desires (those desires that are, again, shaped by growing up überwealthy, being told you’re special and better since you’ve been old enough to fuckin speak.
Everyone is using everyone else. Some people just have way worse—and way larger—intentions.
‘What thing you can buy at a newsagents can change the way you vote?’
The answer is a lottery ticket. Most people who win the lottery change their voting habits to reflect their new status.
A bit like people in bmw/Mercedes not using them blinkers. Once prime feel like they’ve made it they change habits pretty fast. It’s pretty shallow, to say the least, but unfortunately not uncommon.
It wasn’t ever uncommon for rappers to compare themselves to Trump to project wealth and status. Nelly, for example, said “Bill Gates, Donald Trump, let me in.”
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Because grifting the stupid is what happens when you lack talent
spoiler
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Huh that makes sense.
Can’t take all the credit. Someone used that term recently and it’s like a hundred lightbulbs went off for me.
The people they’re aligning themselves with aren’t just social conservatives, though. They’re fascists.
Not literally every single person who has a slightly dated social view is automatically a fascist. Yes if they vote for fascists then they are fascist, etc. But you have to have a little more nuance in life man.
The people mentioned, Trump and Carlson, are fascists. There is no more nuanced way to describe them.
Maybe I am missing something but I don’t see either of them mentioned in this particular chain. Totally agree though.
They’re in the original post.
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Yeah, there are a lot of people in groups that one might think “Hey, you know the Republicans don’t like you and want to make your life miserable, right?” but are socially conservative and are not willing to let that stuff go. There are lots of predominantly Black or Hispanic churches from the “Fun is a sin,” denominations like the evangelicals, Pentecostals and Jehovah Witnesses whose members will not make any compromise on issues like abortion or gay rights. Even amongst the more secular people living in these communities can still be influenced by the folks that live around them. You also get a lot of people, especially older people, who are still on board with the law and order, tough on crime shtick, believing this is the sure way to get nice, safe communities to live in.
Religious, older and concerned with security doesn’t sound all that different to the stereotypical white conservatives that serve as the base for the Republicans in rural areas. They just need a bit more of a nudge to get there because they have to overcome some resistance to voting for a party that explicitly targets things that are important to them in other areas.
If, somehow, Republicans ever stopped being so freakin racist, they would have an unbeatable supermajority in the US. The racism of Republicans is the only thing uniting the various faction of the Democratic party. And it’s kind of funny that it’s very rarely talked about.
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Went to look it up just in case I was mistaken.
Yeah, that’s what I was thinking. I usually just call them bigots.
I’m sure you have great success talking to anyone socially conservative lol
To be fair, it appears that by definition anyone who disagrees with them might have a hard time getting through.
A more polite way of saying they’re firmly stuck in their ways, unwilling to accept a different perspective.
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Why the fuck would I talk to people who want to oppress people? Stop talking to bigots. Ostracize them. They don’t deserve people to listen to them.
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I was mostly talking about online or in personal situations but let’s address.
For most people this is unfortunately true. I would encourage people, when possible, to seek employment at places that prevent bigots. For me, my giant employer has an Equal Opportunity office. You’ll get fired for being openly bigoted, and people have.
I talk to my dad only to make my mom happy. A few times a year. If he starts in on politics, I leave the room or at least ignore him. Non-engagement.
That’s just it: if you have to interface with a known bigot, stick to professional topics. If they bring up bigotry, leave if you can, ignore if you can’t. Ostracizing people also includes minimal engagement. There’s also tacts for dog whistling “jokes” like pretending ignorance and asking them to explain.
Yes. I am totally arrogant and intractable for not wanting to hear about how black people, gay people and women should have their rights taken away. I’ll listen to alternative viewpoints until they dive into fascism and similar. Then they can fuck off.
Lol. No shit? I’ve been doing that since my early 20s. I look back at my past and regret. I can only do better if I change. I hope I realize quickly when my viewpoints are dated and offensive so I can change them.
I find it particularly offensive you are seemingly preaching civility in the face of oppression. Whenever you can get away with it, FUCK civility. Being polite while taking away rights is what American Conservatives have been doing since they lost the civil war. Don’t go lose your job, but nothing is stopping you in your personal lives from cutting out the cancer. Not doing so just enables them and that’s part of the problem.
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Speaking of civility, I think you are both coming from a well meaning place and are making interesting points, but you are starting to make different points. It is even likely you are visualizing two totally different interactions when you are typing out your replies.
I could be wrong about that, but what is clear is that there is a lot of “you this” and “you that” in the discussion. As this is the nice Lemmy instance, please depersonalize the interaction or consider disengaging.
I don’t speak to family members that are bigots. I don’t tolerate bigot strangers. And I don’t tolerate bigots that are coworkers.
You do, in fact, have a choice.
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If I work with bigots, I don’t know about it, because I don’t talk politics at work. If I did find out I worked with a bigot, I’d make it clear that at cannot work together and ask for differing assignments.
If I find it that a stranger I’m dealing with is a bigot (also rare, because politics doesn’t come up often with strangers), I walk away. If a business owner is a bigot, I do not shop with them.
If I find bigots online, I block them.
The magical place I live is called being principled and using the tools at my disposal to ignore bigots.
@acastcandream @Neato You do not have to treat people with respect who do not treat others with respect. You do not have to advocate for civil rights for people who advocate for taking away civil rights. You do not have to tolerate intolerance. Tolerating intolerance makes society intolerant.
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@acastcandream interacting with people does not imply tolerating them. Non-tolerance does not have to mean you instantly kick them out of any space you are in, when that would cause problems for you.
A black man who attends kkk rallies: https://youtu.be/ORp3q1Oaezw
The lesson to be learned from Daryl Davis is that bigots should be ostracized, ignored, and de-platformed. Once their movement has been defanged and members isolated to their anti-social groups, you can more safely reach out to those groups to deprogram the people on the margins, if that’s what you want to do with your life.
The story would be very different if the KKK still held social and political power. A black man who didn’t support the KKK’s mission attending a KKK rally would not last very long. No one should give these people a platform, or treat them civilly when they’re spreading their brain worms in civil society.
Some methods will work for some, others for others. But what you said is the exact opposite of what he said. Like exactly opposite. Say what you want but please don’t misportray others messages.
Sometimes people’s message is different from their words. Please don’t tell me not to say it like it is. And please don’t try and shame the oppressed for not being civil to oppressors.
They’re rich, but it also makes them stand out, gets them extra headlines.
They’re rich. Dave Chapelle said it best. He’s rich first, black second.
he’s just admitting that someone owns his ass… i mean it’s good he can admit to being someone’s boy… he always has been honest…
Came here to say this. It’s a lot more to do with class warfare at this point.
Every other type of social warfare is a smoke screen for class warfare. Even during the US civil war a lot of the issue the slaveowners had was that they were losing a huge amount of free labor which would put them at an economic disadvantage. The rich’s most successful invention is driving social wedge issues to distract from the class war that has been raging one-sided for millenia.
Agree, but machismo is also a thing.
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Scrolling through Twitter a couple of weeks ago, I came across a clip of rightwing commentator Tucker Carlson interviewing a face I never thought I’d see on his platform: Ice Cube.
He’s joining a long list of rappers – Kanye West, Da Baby, Kodak Black, Lil Pump – who have all put themselves in dangerous proximity to conservative politicians even as rightwing populism threatens to destroy their communities.
Still, hip-hop legends like Jay-Z continue to peddle this demented lie because that is the very function of capitalism: keep the poorest in society busy providing cheap labor while they chase an impossible dream.
Say what you want about Democrats and what they have or haven’t done for Black people in America, but Kanye West campaigning for Trump wasn’t some stroke of genius – it was one of the most self-hating and objectively stupid moves that a person in his position could have made back in 2016.
I don’t blame Black people – burned by decades of generational disenfranchisement and then walloped over the head with the illusion of meritocracy – for trying to keep their place at the top no matter who they have to play nice with.
But romancing fearmongering xenophobes isn’t keeping us at the top, it’s digging a pitiful hole to the bottom, a new low from which Black people as a community will not recover if we don’t put a stop to it now.
Bot glitched?
Because they’re rich and insulated from (the worst of) racism now. Plus, a lot of these dudes really don’t want to change the status quo, since it got them where they are. Just look at how a lot of Black women get treated by Black men. Look at specifically how these rappers have treated Black women. They want the patriarchy in place, they just want to be at the top of it with white men, and now that they’re rich enough, they de facto are.
Ice Cube is a virulent unrepentant Farrakhan antisemite, he hates and disparages me, my family, and my people. Seeing him used as a source of amusement or toughness or worse hero worship, in a post, is terribly offensive.
https://www.thedailybeast.com/ice-cubes-long-disturbing-history-of-anti-semitism
Fuck Ice Cube, he’s a racist piece of shit.
I don’t understand why anyone is surprised when minorities are racist. Racism is not unique to white people.
I used to have a terribly racist Philippino neighbor and it blew my mind when he ranted about our Hispanic neighbors. Dude was an asshole in general. I am not sure if the racism was a product of that or the other way around.
@Aesthesiaphilia @trashhalo @downpunxx sadly there are a lot of weird silly people in “the left”, and the left is not good at driving them out, whereas everyone in the right has to mostly align to stay in the right.
Commercial artists only care about the aesthetic of it doesn’t hurt their chances to make more money.
Ice Cube is a Trump supporter? Wtf?!
rich, comfortable slaves
“Why do members of this oppressed group side with oppressors” is a perennial question, like why are there so many Republican women when Republicans generally are anti-woman…
The answer is usually something like, if you’re high on the totem pole in several ways the fact that you’re not high on the totem pole in all ways might not matter so much to you.
If you’re rich, straight, cis, and male, but not white, you get a lot out of being rich and male and straight and cis, so you may support the group that protects the interests of rich, straight, male people, even though they might not be nice to black people, the fact that you’re on the same page on so many other axes means at least they’ll usually treat you OK cause you’re one of them in so many other ways.
See also: middle class white cis straight women, or Log Cabin republicans, or whatever.
Also: poor white straight cis men.
I’d never thought of it this way. It certainly makes sense to me though, and gives me a new insight.
I’d also bet the different factors have different influence. My rough, mostly arbitrary order would be:
wealth > whether you’re trans > religion > race/ethnicity & sexuality > gender
Agreed on the basic appeal of core values, BUT there is another vector that the article sidesteps: unabashed tokenism. The extreme right knows it has a pretty nasty optics problem. Most of them try to avoid directly referencing white supremacists (even when their staff members give the game away). They all know that they walk in the shadow of a KKK costume. So, what’s a nice white politician to do? Get some Black people on stage who will blow right past the obvious racist motivations that has landed them in the limelight. Give them some cheap attention and some easy money. It’s a win-win for everyone on stage, that is until the token has worn out their usefulness.
This is pretty much how I see it. Cash can’t solve everything, but it sure smoothes out a heck of a lot of bumps along the way. A lot of people will look the other way if they feel they can get something out of you.
Anyone hard right I know is either a bigot, well to do, or both. When you can have a single income family or you’re a jerk, many of these issues don’t even make it on your radar. They just seem to not exist or be someone else’s problem.
This is why intersectionality is key and platitudes like “no war but the class war” miss the point entirely (and ignore all the people who are marginalised for reasons other than wealth and class).
Sure, the class war is essential, but without going to war against all other oppression too, you just end up with fucked up and oxymoronic shit like “national” socialism…
I think this is mostly just a case of becomming super rich. It happens a LOT to people who become wealthy, it tends to change your personality and the way you think, usually for the worse.
There have been many studies that confirm this. Though there are a few exceptions, the data shows rich people really do tend to behave like entitled assholes, think they know better, think they ARE better.
https://www.vice.com/en/article/mbqknn/having-a-lot-of-money-affects-your-personality https://www.vox.com/2015/6/16/8790357/rich-people-jerks
Of course. You start to be surrounded by hangers on, desperate to get in your good graces because we have a weird cult of celebrity and wealth.
Your entire world changes when people start to keep your surroundings favorable to your tastes and people only ever tell you “yes.” You start to believe that you are right all the time and your tastes are impeccable and your opinions fascinating. And then people like tucker Carlson will utilize that for his own ends, extending and utilizing that yes-man follower role to pervert your appearance or your fan base, to achieve something he’s always tried to achieve—but for his own desires (those desires that are, again, shaped by growing up überwealthy, being told you’re special and better since you’ve been old enough to fuckin speak.
Everyone is using everyone else. Some people just have way worse—and way larger—intentions.
I think in qi they once bright it like this:
‘What thing you can buy at a newsagents can change the way you vote?’
The answer is a lottery ticket. Most people who win the lottery change their voting habits to reflect their new status.
A bit like people in bmw/Mercedes not using them blinkers. Once prime feel like they’ve made it they change habits pretty fast. It’s pretty shallow, to say the least, but unfortunately not uncommon.
It wasn’t ever uncommon for rappers to compare themselves to Trump to project wealth and status. Nelly, for example, said “Bill Gates, Donald Trump, let me in.”
What happens when you are rich and famous and everyone around you treats you like a god… I imagine you lose any anchor to reality.
This is why I stay poor and unrecognized. I don’t want to get a big head.
Glad you chose the right path, boot straps and what not.
I tie my bootstraps to a big rock, so I don’t accidentally get pulled up.
Because they are rich capitalists.