Youtube and others want their users to disable adblockers to increase their revenue from advertisements, but will forcing the users to so do be effective in the long-term?
What unexpected consequences could occur? Why do people use adblockers in the first place? Why aren't more users buying Youtube Premium as a solution? Do adblock users still contribute value to websites? Can websites effectively enforce such policies? Are there ways to naturally encourage more users to disable their adblockers instead?
Enjoy my informal and assorted ramblings as I learn basic video editing skills.
For more examples of the Cobra Effect, here is a playlist: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1lUrH4Sbgh8&list=PLBuns9Evn1w9XhnH7vVh_7C65wJbaBECK
Be aware: The publisher of this series, Reason TV, hit the nail on the head with exploring this concept, but they do have a HEAVY libertarian bias, and I do not agree with everything that they publish. Be aware before you watch a series that could alter your recommendations.
Supplemental links and sources will (slowly) be updated here. I should have done so in the first place, but future videos won't have this issue.
Adblocker legality in Germany: https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2016/11/adblock-plus-wins-its-6th-court-case-brought-by-der-spiegel/
FBI on Adblockers: https://www.ic3.gov/Media/Y2022/PSA221221?=8324278624
NSA, CIA, and others on adblockers: https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/21068028-wyden-letter-to-omb-on-ad-blocking
Interesting article from Australia not in video: https://www.computerworld.com/article/3455730/government-agencies-ordered-to-block-online-ads-flash.html
Good info on adblock detection and GDPR compliance: https://iabeurope.eu/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/20160516-IABEU_Guidance_AdBlockerDetection.pdf
Insight on undisclosed ads: https://www.vox.com/recode/23197348/tiktok-ad-sponcon-influencers
Several cases where a website agreement was not enforceable (not the same as legal precedence):
https://www.lexisnexis.com/community/casebrief/p/casebrief-specht-v-netscape-commc-ns-corp
https://www.lexisnexis.com/community/casebrief/p/casebrief-nguyen-v-barnes-noble-inc
https://www.lexisnexis.com/community/casebrief/p/casebrief-meyer-v-uber-techs-inc
Which is a fine take to have. I block all ads almost all the time. But web hosting does cost money. So I see enabling ads on those who asked nicely has been what I see is donating my time and my annoyance with ad to a service that I value and should donate to. I have been burned a couple of times. But I still do it because hosting content on we costs money.
I’d be fine with ads, but Google’s policy is only superficially about ads. They want surveillance and user profiling, not ads. Ads are just a way to deliver these. Over my dead body.
I have to play devil’s advocate here. Are you really fine with the current level of ads? Fine with some past/historical level less than now? What level is ok exactly?
To me the current level of youtube ads is unhinged. Even minus the privacy issues it’s not usable. And it got that way (to me, at least) as soon as skip wait timers (remember when that was all we had to deal with?) became a thing.
Now? With unskippable ads, huge wait timers, and ads injected into the middle of 8-minute videos? Nope nope nooope. Not a chance in hell would I watch unblocked or non-premium youtube.
Fair enough, let me rephrase. I’m willing to negotiate about ads, the exact boundaries yet to be discussed. My privacy and my data are absolutely off limits, especially if they’re gonna pretend it’s not even about these.
Even ignoring the surveillance aspect of ads, which I could go on a massive rant about, Google and other ad platforms themselves doesn’t seem to care about harming people with malvertising and scam ads. Why should I care about their revenue?
YouTube started nearly (or completely?) ad-free and stayed that way till all of their competition was dead, people were addicted to it and there was no alternative. Then they started turning up the ad knob - gradually to avoid people leaving for something newer, until it was so obnoxious that ad blockers became common among even nontechnical users. Now they’re gas lighting ad block users as if they are committing a crime.
YouTube wouldn’t be in a position to make these unfair demands if they didn’t use their enormous wealth to create a video hosting monopoly and subjecting their users to bait and switch. F*** Google and their pretend morality. F*** them for destroying the web experience. F*** them for destroying web access and livelihood for many by banning their accounts and neglecting all appeals. I’m sure not going to create revenue for a very abusive, unethical and evil corporation.
If content creators want to get paid, start a patreon account or something. Or join a paid subscription service like nebula. I’m open to all those. I just don’t want a disgusting leech in between.
I was a premium subscriber for a long time, and probably still would be if Google hadn’t turned so evil that I can no longer in good conscience pay them any money.
But what pushed me over the edge with an ad blocker was a page I got to where every paragraph had a video ad in between. That was it.
YouTube isn’t “going away”. What could happen is a lot of people switch to something better.
Just like a whole bunch of people have switched to Lemmy, which is better than Reddit. YouTube would still exist, at least for a while, just like Reddit still exists.
Yeah, sites like peertube will never catch on besides any small techy circles. Any alternative will have to be centralized, that’s the only way they’ll get ad companies to their platform. Without ad companies, creators will have to revenue and no incentive to keep making videos on that platform.
Pornhub could start Videohub tomorrow and shake things up if they really wanted to.
Otherwise there’s Odysee (bad name, linked to crypto but good interface) and Peertube (federated but searches aren’t* so it will never catch on), but people aren’t too fond of those.
* I know about Sepia Search. People shouldn’t have to use yet another website to find the videos they want on Peertube. It’s stupid.
Pornhub could do that, but there’s a reason they haven’t. Video delivery is insanely complex and expensive and consumer tolerance for advertising on those platforms is low. With no other way to sustain and income from it the only option will be loads of smaller sites or a paid site.
Personally, I don’t mind when ads are reasonable for a website or service I’m getting for free. I think people should get paid for the service they are providing. The problem is it always eventually gets out of control and at that point, yeah I’m going to block your ads.
I was on a website earlier today and 80% of the screen was ads. Sorry, you’re getting added to my block list.
Just never go to a website like that again if you have the choice. Seeing a drop in visitors and ad revenue after making the decision to pepper the entire screen with ads is the only thing that will cause the webmaster to reverse that decision.
I’ve paid $10 for spotify every month for years and it’s always been a great service and the algorithm does a good job of finding me new music that I like.
But most of this stuff can be pirated or bought piecemeal without bothering with a subscription.
And that’s what we’ll do when it gets out of hand, as we all know it will.
Alternatively a Gabe Newell quote: “Piracy is almost always a service problem and not a pricing problem.”
Not exactly the same context but it also applies.
Pretty good analogy though. Steam has some ads (out of the box it literally launches an ad window at startup) but it isn’t really a pain in the ass about it. You close the window, you move on, it only happens once and there’s nothing unskippable. It doesn’t shove ads in front of my face every time I launch a game from the library (I’d immediately leave the platform if there were.)
Fact is if steam and the other major platforms were ever to devolve within striking distance of how bad youtube has become, piracy would become unhinged. So far Valve has resisted the illusory “infinite money lever” that idiots in c-suites have misunderstood ads to be.
And the ads in Steam are from its own store. So it helps with discoverability. Seeing some fucking razor blade ad before watching some firefigther documentation is just completely unrelated. Plus: I can’t buy razor blades on youtube. It’s a fucking video streaming platform. When Steam shows me new games, it’s at least something I would actually do on Steam.
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I’m sure other people don’t mind ads. Yeah fuck that, I’m gonna ad block till the day I die.
Which is a fine take to have. I block all ads almost all the time. But web hosting does cost money. So I see enabling ads on those who asked nicely has been what I see is donating my time and my annoyance with ad to a service that I value and should donate to. I have been burned a couple of times. But I still do it because hosting content on we costs money.
well I hope there’s more people like you to counteract me, cuz I never do that lol
You’re a criminal! Nice customer relations there.
I mean, if a service is free… You’re the product, you’ve never been the customer 🙃
I’d be fine with ads, but Google’s policy is only superficially about ads. They want surveillance and user profiling, not ads. Ads are just a way to deliver these. Over my dead body.
I know I can’t escape Google’s Orwellian surveillance entirely but I limit what I can, and adblockers/ trackerblockrers play a huge part in this.
I have to play devil’s advocate here. Are you really fine with the current level of ads? Fine with some past/historical level less than now? What level is ok exactly?
To me the current level of youtube ads is unhinged. Even minus the privacy issues it’s not usable. And it got that way (to me, at least) as soon as skip wait timers (remember when that was all we had to deal with?) became a thing.
Now? With unskippable ads, huge wait timers, and ads injected into the middle of 8-minute videos? Nope nope nooope. Not a chance in hell would I watch unblocked or non-premium youtube.
Fair enough, let me rephrase. I’m willing to negotiate about ads, the exact boundaries yet to be discussed. My privacy and my data are absolutely off limits, especially if they’re gonna pretend it’s not even about these.
Even ignoring the surveillance aspect of ads, which I could go on a massive rant about, Google and other ad platforms themselves doesn’t seem to care about harming people with malvertising and scam ads. Why should I care about their revenue?
YouTube started nearly (or completely?) ad-free and stayed that way till all of their competition was dead, people were addicted to it and there was no alternative. Then they started turning up the ad knob - gradually to avoid people leaving for something newer, until it was so obnoxious that ad blockers became common among even nontechnical users. Now they’re gas lighting ad block users as if they are committing a crime.
YouTube wouldn’t be in a position to make these unfair demands if they didn’t use their enormous wealth to create a video hosting monopoly and subjecting their users to bait and switch. F*** Google and their pretend morality. F*** them for destroying the web experience. F*** them for destroying web access and livelihood for many by banning their accounts and neglecting all appeals. I’m sure not going to create revenue for a very abusive, unethical and evil corporation.
If content creators want to get paid, start a patreon account or something. Or join a paid subscription service like nebula. I’m open to all those. I just don’t want a disgusting leech in between.
I was a premium subscriber for a long time, and probably still would be if Google hadn’t turned so evil that I can no longer in good conscience pay them any money.
But what pushed me over the edge with an ad blocker was a page I got to where every paragraph had a video ad in between. That was it.
I maintain that when YouTube goes away there won’t be a free alternative of the same scale that replaces it
YouTube isn’t “going away”. What could happen is a lot of people switch to something better.
Just like a whole bunch of people have switched to Lemmy, which is better than Reddit. YouTube would still exist, at least for a while, just like Reddit still exists.
Everything goes away eventually. If YouTube stops being valuable to Google, it’s going away.
Yeah, sites like peertube will never catch on besides any small techy circles. Any alternative will have to be centralized, that’s the only way they’ll get ad companies to their platform. Without ad companies, creators will have to revenue and no incentive to keep making videos on that platform.
Thank God
Probably, no other website will be able to capitalize on the early internet and a lack of good video sites.
Pornhub could start Videohub tomorrow and shake things up if they really wanted to.
Otherwise there’s Odysee (bad name, linked to crypto but good interface) and Peertube (federated but searches aren’t* so it will never catch on), but people aren’t too fond of those.
* I know about Sepia Search. People shouldn’t have to use yet another website to find the videos they want on Peertube. It’s stupid.
Pornhub could do that, but there’s a reason they haven’t. Video delivery is insanely complex and expensive and consumer tolerance for advertising on those platforms is low. With no other way to sustain and income from it the only option will be loads of smaller sites or a paid site.
Canonical video link https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gIHi9yH6UB0
Personally, I don’t mind when ads are reasonable for a website or service I’m getting for free. I think people should get paid for the service they are providing. The problem is it always eventually gets out of control and at that point, yeah I’m going to block your ads.
I was on a website earlier today and 80% of the screen was ads. Sorry, you’re getting added to my block list.
Just never go to a website like that again if you have the choice. Seeing a drop in visitors and ad revenue after making the decision to pepper the entire screen with ads is the only thing that will cause the webmaster to reverse that decision.
Now that’s a name I haven’t heard in a long time… a long time
Nowadays we call him spider-man
Same.
I’ve paid $10 for spotify every month for years and it’s always been a great service and the algorithm does a good job of finding me new music that I like.
But most of this stuff can be pirated or bought piecemeal without bothering with a subscription.
And that’s what we’ll do when it gets out of hand, as we all know it will.
Louis Rossmann: “when the pirate experience is better than the paid experience, you have a problem.”
Alternatively a Gabe Newell quote: “Piracy is almost always a service problem and not a pricing problem.” Not exactly the same context but it also applies.
Pretty good analogy though. Steam has some ads (out of the box it literally launches an ad window at startup) but it isn’t really a pain in the ass about it. You close the window, you move on, it only happens once and there’s nothing unskippable. It doesn’t shove ads in front of my face every time I launch a game from the library (I’d immediately leave the platform if there were.)
Fact is if steam and the other major platforms were ever to devolve within striking distance of how bad youtube has become, piracy would become unhinged. So far Valve has resisted the illusory “infinite money lever” that idiots in c-suites have misunderstood ads to be.
And the ads in Steam are from its own store. So it helps with discoverability. Seeing some fucking razor blade ad before watching some firefigther documentation is just completely unrelated. Plus: I can’t buy razor blades on youtube. It’s a fucking video streaming platform. When Steam shows me new games, it’s at least something I would actually do on Steam.